Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

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NYC Law
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Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:30 am

I'm within top 5% or so by last year's rank cut offs, closer to top 3% or so. I won't even attempt to cover up my school since my name gives it away, I go to Fordham.

I guess the immediate question is should I attempt to ED to Chicago? or even EA to GULC?

Ideally I'd like to end up in NYC, but I don't really have a strong commitment to any geographical area.
Want to do transactional biglaw, or anything else that will open up more doors down the road (Big FedGovt, Clerk, etc).

A big weakness with Chicago is that I only had three substantive grades this semester (2 worth 5 credits, 1 worth 3, get LRW next sem), and we don't have any sort of official rankings, just rank cut offs for top 10% published at the end of the year.

The only thing pushing me to attempt to ED/EA is I have very little confidence in my ability to duplicate this performance, so I'd like a little insurance. But suppose I maintain, should I consider transferring anywhere else? Will I get in anywhere?

TYIA

jarofsoup
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby jarofsoup » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:45 am

Grades come out next week so I do not know what position I would actually be in. Doesn't hurt to apply to EA to GULC it isen't binding. But, Chicago is. But, Chicago is Chicago so it might not be a bad thing to be bound to.

I don't know. I think EA GULC and if you are going to get into Chicago ED you may be able to get into it regular app and that way you may have some more options.

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traehekat
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby traehekat » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:49 am

you are top 5% at fordham and you ideally want to end up in NYC? why are you even CONSIDERING transferring? especially to chicago or GULC - IDGI! if you aren't already on a scholarship you should be trying to leverage one.

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NYC Law
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:54 am

traehekat wrote:you are top 5% at fordham and you ideally want to end up in NYC? why are you even CONSIDERING transferring? especially to chicago or GULC - IDGI! if you aren't already on a scholarship you should be trying to leverage one.


Oh yeah, I'm on 7.5k, not much. I'm not seriously considering GULC, but if I get accepted EA and end up median next semester I guess it'd be something to think about. I don't think Fordham leverages, they just give an extra 5k to the top couple people in the class.

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traehekat
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby traehekat » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:01 am

NYC Law wrote:
traehekat wrote:you are top 5% at fordham and you ideally want to end up in NYC? why are you even CONSIDERING transferring? especially to chicago or GULC - IDGI! if you aren't already on a scholarship you should be trying to leverage one.


Oh yeah, I'm on 7.5k, not much. I'm not seriously considering GULC, but if I get accepted EA and end up median next semester I guess it'd be something to think about. I don't think Fordham leverages, they just give an extra 5k to the top couple people in the class.


even if you ended up median or worse, you would be further hurting yourself by transferring to GULC or chicago if you are looking for NYC. you don't DISTANCE yourself from the market you want to work in - it shows a lack of commitment (even for NYC).

now, if you are thinking about NYU/columbia, that is a totally different story and without the prospect of receiving some big $ from fordham, i would say go for it.

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NYC Law
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:05 am

traehekat wrote:now, if you are thinking about NYU/columbia, that is a totally different story and without the prospect of receiving some big $ from fordham, i would say go for it.


Definitely open to that, and it's the preferred route. Just didn't want to count my chickens before they hatch in the event my grades aren't there. Top 10% or so should be good for NYU you think? (Read 5% historically gets CLS from Fordham).

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traehekat
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby traehekat » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:14 am

NYC Law wrote:
traehekat wrote:now, if you are thinking about NYU/columbia, that is a totally different story and without the prospect of receiving some big $ from fordham, i would say go for it.


Definitely open to that, and it's the preferred route. Just didn't want to count my chickens before they hatch in the event my grades aren't there. Top 10% or so should be good for NYU you think? (Read 5% historically gets CLS from Fordham).


10% wouldn't be a LOCK at NYU but you would certainly be competitive, same for columbia.

keg411
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby keg411 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:42 am

I agree with the above: NYU/CLS or stay put at Fordham. Moving somewhere else + OCI + having to fly for all of your callbacks is miserable.

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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:01 am

Chicago is worth considering since you are open geographically & due to its small class size & amazing placement even though most biglaw positions are in NYC. In my opinion, Fordham top 3% to top 10% is better for NYC biglaw than GULC & no class rank (if my assumption re: Georgetown transfers is correct).

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Helmholtz
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:29 pm

I would completely forget about GULC. I think that UChicago is a great option for a lot of people, but not the best route for you here. It's tough, because transfers have a more difficult time lining up clerkships (getting faculty recommendations, etc.), but then again, Fordham's clerkship rate is pretty abysmal (I don't know how much of that can be chalked up to self-selection though). Also, if you stay where you are, you're probably set for Law Review, no? All in all, I would either stay where you are now, or transfer to Columbia, possibly NYU. Columbia seems like it would have the better alumni network, and would help the most with biglaw / clerkships. If you're thinking about academia, then absolutely try to transfer to Columbia. An Ivy degree makes a big difference on the academic market.

edit: I just realized how much some of my stuff on here comes across as stream of consciousness

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:33 pm

Doesn't top few % at Fordham do ridiculously well at OCI, especially for NYC? I mean, I'm a huge proponent of transferring (former transfer myself), but top 3-5% at Fordham has to be good for your choice of NYC biglaw, no?

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Helmholtz
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:37 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:Doesn't top few % at Fordham do ridiculously well at OCI, especially for NYC? I mean, I'm a huge proponent of transferring (former transfer myself), but top 3-5% at Fordham has to be good for your choice of NYC biglaw, no?


My understanding was that they did incredibly well for biglaw hiring in NYC, but with things like clerking, not so much. I think the biggest cost that OP might be giving up by transferring is faculty contacts. OCI should be a breeze, and hopefully the Columbia / NYU name and network will get him a lot farther in clerkships / academia / whatever he thinks he may want to do later. For me, that would probably be worth the $15k in total scholarship money.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:42 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:Doesn't top few % at Fordham do ridiculously well at OCI, especially for NYC? I mean, I'm a huge proponent of transferring (former transfer myself), but top 3-5% at Fordham has to be good for your choice of NYC biglaw, no?


My understanding was that they did incredibly well for biglaw hiring in NYC, but with things like clerking, not so much. I think the biggest cost that OP might be giving up by transferring is faculty contacts. OCI should be a breeze, and hopefully the Columbia / NYU name and network will get him a lot farther in clerkships / academia / whatever he thinks he may want to do later. For me, that would probably be worth the $15k in total scholarship money.


Totally agree.

OP, if clerking/academia is your gig, remember you'll need to repeat 1L performance (assuming you repeat this semester) during 2L year. Of the transfers I know, about half ended up closer to median after transferring and half are still at the top. Either way, as Helm mentioned, you'll probably do well at NYU/Columbia OCI (I'd guess at least as well as you'd have done at Fordham), but if you flub 2L, clerking becomes that much less likely (again, assuming you nail it this semester and 2L year at Fordham).

Just food for though. GL OP! (and 'grats on those grades, bro)

keg411
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby keg411 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:16 pm

Anecdotal clerking evidence: not sure about fed court, but at least one of the NJ State Supreme Court clerks from last year was at Fordham. I'm guessing he was pretty high in the class since he SA'd at and was returning to one of Skadden/Cravath/S&C.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:20 pm

keg411 wrote:Anecdotal clerking evidence: not sure about fed court, but at least one of the NJ State Supreme Court clerks from last year was at Fordham. I'm guessing he was pretty high in the class since he SA'd at and was returning to one of Skadden/Cravath/S&C.


Was this for or against Fordham's chances at clerking? It seems like you would need maybe top 5 percent or so from Fordham to have a good shot at any of those three firms (although that number might be off). And to only get a state clerkship from that....

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NYC Law
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:34 pm

Thanks everyone, you've all been really helpful. I think I am going to gun my hardest to stay in the top 5% and shoot for CLS/NYU. Anyone know if CLS lets transfers apply to the 3 yr JD/MBA program?

keg411
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby keg411 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:44 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
keg411 wrote:Anecdotal clerking evidence: not sure about fed court, but at least one of the NJ State Supreme Court clerks from last year was at Fordham. I'm guessing he was pretty high in the class since he SA'd at and was returning to one of Skadden/Cravath/S&C.


Was this for or against Fordham's chances at clerking? It seems like you would need maybe top 5 percent or so from Fordham to have a good shot at any of those three firms (although that number might be off). And to only get a state clerkship from that....


Highest state court in NJ; this isn't trial court I'm talking about. It's pretty close to Fed District in terms of how hard it is to get. All of the clerks I worked with this summer were in the top 5-10 people in their classes and on LR. (Although the Fordham guy worked for another Justice).

It was pretty much supposed to be a neutral anecdote though. And OP is in the top 5%, so it doesn't really matter.

.375 H&H Mag.
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby .375 H&H Mag. » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:13 pm

I'm in a similar spot, although not nearly as geographically focused. I'm also wondering if the Chicago/GT EA idea might be worth it as an insurance policy against a disappointing second semester. I don't see a reason why it's not worth the $75 to apply.

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NYC Law
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Re: Top 5%, T30 - Transfer?

Postby NYC Law » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:19 pm

.375 H&H Mag. wrote:I'm in a similar spot, although not nearly as geographically focused. I'm also wondering if the Chicago/GT EA idea might be worth it as an insurance policy against a disappointing second semester. I don't see a reason why it's not worth the $75 to apply.


If my long memo gets a shitty enough grade I think I might apply to Chicago ED. GULC EA is prob a waste though, you'd have to do very poorly to make that worth it. GULC transfers don't (to my knowledge) have anywhere near the same type of success as T6 transfers.




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