GULC to Yale: Should I go?

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GULC vs. Yale:

Georgetown w/top grades and likely law review
60
33%
YLS with chance to write-on
123
67%
 
Total votes: 183

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scribelaw
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GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby scribelaw » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:14 am

Having a hard time deciding, and I'd appreciate any thoughts folks have.

I have top grades Georgetown. We haven't found out law review yet; I'd say it's probable I made main journal, although there are no longer any straight grade-on slots. I can do the write-on for the Yale Law Journal and am told the odds aren't bad.

Interested in CoA clerkship, litigation in DC market, AUSA or teaching (but I want to practice first).

From what I have gathered, my clerkship odds would be similar -- probably better at GULC if I keep roughly the same grades. But I think I have to assume some regression to the mean. Georgetown has a lot bigger network in DC, but Yale is Yale.

Cost would be slightly more at Y, but not enough to matter.

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ElvisAaron
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby ElvisAaron » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:47 am

scribelaw wrote:Yale is Yale.



Do it.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:56 am

What are your goals? While Yale sticker versus Georgetown sticker is a no brainer, Yale versus Georgetown + Law Review + Latin Honors is at least somewhat difficult.

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scribelaw
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby scribelaw » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:05 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:What are your goals? While Yale sticker versus Georgetown sticker is a no brainer, Yale versus Georgetown + Law Review + Latin Honors is at least somewhat difficult.


Agreed. My grades could drop pretty significantly and I'd still graduate magna from GULC. I also have at least a shot at finishing summa or No. 1 in my class, although this is obviously impossible to predict and low-percentage.

My immediate goal is to get the best clerkship possible. Beyond that, I am going to practice in BigLaw lit in DC and would like to have as many options as possible available.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:17 am

Magna from Georgetown should be enough for good federal district court clerkships. If you want the U.S. COA, you may not get it. However, merely transferring to Yale wouldn't help you get it either unless you performed very well there (which is something you cannot predict). So if you want a U.S. COA clerkship, you may have to clerk for a U.S. district court first.

That, combined with the fact that your GPA could drop significantly and you would still graduate Magna, makes me vote stay.

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scribelaw
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby scribelaw » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:21 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Magna from Georgetown should be enough for good federal district court clerkships. If you want the U.S. COA, you may not get it...So if you want a U.S. COA clerkship, you may have to clerk for a U.S. district court first.



This is incorrect. Georgetown places 20+ a year in circuit clerkships; top 5 percent plus law review routinely gets CoA from GULC. In addition, last year GULC placed 8 on the most competitive circuits (DC/2/9), so top 2-3 percent grades are competitive for those circuits.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:28 am

scribelaw wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:Magna from Georgetown should be enough for good federal district court clerkships. If you want the U.S. COA, you may not get it...So if you want a U.S. COA clerkship, you may have to clerk for a U.S. district court first.



This is incorrect. Georgetown places 20+ a year in circuit clerkships; top 5 percent plus law review routinely gets CoA from GULC. In addition, last year GULC placed 8 on the most competitive circuits (DC/2/9), so top 2-3 percent grades are competitive for those circuits.


Don't be a d bag. Either way, even you stated that your grades may go down a little. If you fall outside that range, you may or may not get it. That's my point.

Transferthrowaway
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby Transferthrowaway » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:41 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
scribelaw wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:Magna from Georgetown should be enough for good federal district court clerkships. If you want the U.S. COA, you may not get it...So if you want a U.S. COA clerkship, you may have to clerk for a U.S. district court first.



This is incorrect. Georgetown places 20+ a year in circuit clerkships; top 5 percent plus law review routinely gets CoA from GULC. In addition, last year GULC placed 8 on the most competitive circuits (DC/2/9), so top 2-3 percent grades are competitive for those circuits.


Don't be a d bag. Either way, even you stated that your grades may go down a little. If you fall outside that range, you may or may not get it. That's my point.


He wasn't being a d bag. He told you the facts.

Scribelaw, there is regression to the mean but as long as you carefully pick your professors at GULC, you should be fine. With that said, I still voted Yale.

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vanwinkle
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 pm

I vote transfer. You'll still be able to clerk from Yale, and if you've worked that hard during 1L, I imagine you'll be able to make the right connections with professors at Yale to get the right clerkship from there. If things are that similar in the short term, then think about the fact that long-term, you'll have a Yale degree.

People go to Yale to prove they got into Yale.

CanadianWolf
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:04 pm

Yale for a few reasons including the liklihood that you will always wonder "what if" if you stay at Georgetown.

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scribelaw
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby scribelaw » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:29 pm

I'm surprised at how lopsided this is. I thought it'd be more 50/50.

The prestige/mystique of Yale beats all, I guess?

Transferthrowaway
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby Transferthrowaway » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:53 pm

scribelaw wrote:I'm surprised at how lopsided this is. I thought it'd be more 50/50.

The prestige/mystique of Yale beats all, I guess?


All except for H when it comes to lay prestige name dropping in order to get laid.

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thesealocust
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:58 pm

You have to answer what YOU gain from transferring to Yale, not what a random person has to gain by starting at Yale.

The people who will get competitive CoA clerkships, teaching gigs, etc. from Yale are already making the connections to make that happen. And it's not a guarantee to anyone there; if anything it's more likely when you're sitting at the top of the class at GULC.

I honestly do not believe that there is much to gain, because the world doesn't see almost any set of accolades from YLS - transfer or not - as strictly 'better' than OP's current spot. Still, polling law students who aren't thinking about it carefully everyone will tell you to jump ship.

Also, NB that Yale clamped down on the rate at which they accept transfers onto YLJ recently, so that's not as much of a no-brainer as it was a few years ago when it was easy to write on.

Karneval03
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby Karneval03 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:52 pm

.
Last edited by Karneval03 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ndirish2010
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby ndirish2010 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:45 pm

This is really tough, but I think I would stay. Think about it, you're in the top 1% at GULC and you want DC BigLaw. Before law school, obviously Yale was better, but with your grades that is not true anymore. If anyone is going to get a COA clerkship from GULC, it will be you. If you go to Yale, the odds won't be quite as much in your favor. Transfer or not, you'll probably get close to wherever you want as far as BigLaw goes (even in DC), but if you really want COA I think you should stay.

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Malcolm8X
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby Malcolm8X » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:58 pm

Uhh... I'd transfer. And try making contacts with the Skull n Bones while you're there (i.e. Set.For.Life).

elmagic
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby elmagic » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:32 pm

scribelaw wrote:Having a hard time deciding, and I'd appreciate any thoughts folks have.

I have top grades Georgetown. We haven't found out law review yet; I'd say it's probable I made main journal, although there are no longer any straight grade-on slots. I can do the write-on for the Yale Law Journal and am told the odds aren't bad.

Interested in CoA clerkship, litigation in DC market, AUSA or teaching (but I want to practice first).

From what I have gathered, my clerkship odds would be similar -- probably better at GULC if I keep roughly the same grades. But I think I have to assume some regression to the mean. Georgetown has a lot bigger network in DC, but Yale is Yale.

Cost would be slightly more at Y, but not enough to matter.


No way you should transfer! Take this from someone is actually at Y: the opportunities to distinguish yourself at Yale from others in the class are minimal. While a large group of people clerk from Yale, as a transfer you'll be starting over. While I am not one of those who will say that the caliber of students at Yale is better than Gtown, I still think you can be successful here, it's just the majority of people here are crazy motivated, and crazy smart.

Also, if you can't snag a CoA clerkship from Gtown with your grades + lr, it's not something that going to Yale can change. And when you interview at the top places in DC they might be like wtf dude, you were top1% and you transferred just to come back and work in DC? Also take the poll with a grain of salt, I bet the majority of voters who said Yale aren't even in law school, or don't really understand exactly what it means to be at the top of your class at a t-14.

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ndirish2010
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby ndirish2010 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:38 pm

elmagic wrote:
scribelaw wrote:Having a hard time deciding, and I'd appreciate any thoughts folks have.

I have top grades Georgetown. We haven't found out law review yet; I'd say it's probable I made main journal, although there are no longer any straight grade-on slots. I can do the write-on for the Yale Law Journal and am told the odds aren't bad.

Interested in CoA clerkship, litigation in DC market, AUSA or teaching (but I want to practice first).

From what I have gathered, my clerkship odds would be similar -- probably better at GULC if I keep roughly the same grades. But I think I have to assume some regression to the mean. Georgetown has a lot bigger network in DC, but Yale is Yale.

Cost would be slightly more at Y, but not enough to matter.


No way you should transfer! Take this from someone is actually at Y: the opportunities to distinguish yourself at Yale from others in the class are minimal. While a large group of people clerk from Yale, as a transfer you'll be starting over. While I am not one of those who will say that the caliber of students at Yale is better than Gtown, I still think you can be successful here, it's just the majority of people here are crazy motivated, and crazy smart.

Also, if you can't snag a CoA clerkship from Gtown with your grades + lr, it's not something that going to Yale can change. And when you interview at the top places in DC they might be like wtf dude, you were top1% and you transferred just to come back and work in DC? Also take the poll with a grain of salt, I bet the majority of voters who said Yale aren't even in law school, or don't really understand exactly what it means to be at the top of your class at a t-14.


+1

yalito
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby yalito » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:44 am

ndirish and elmagic are right. You can stand out at GULC in a way you can never stand out at Yale. You should get a great clerkship from GULC.

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Moxie
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby Moxie » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:55 am

I'm surprised at this poll's lopsidness, if anything I thought it would be going hard against transferring.

This post pretty much sums up my feeling, especially if DC is your target market:

ndirish2010 wrote:This is really tough, but I think I would stay. Think about it, you're in the top 1% at GULC and you want DC BigLaw. Before law school, obviously Yale was better, but with your grades that is not true anymore. If anyone is going to get a COA clerkship from GULC, it will be you. If you go to Yale, the odds won't be quite as much in your favor. Transfer or not, you'll probably get close to wherever you want as far as BigLaw goes (even in DC), but if you really want COA I think you should stay.


All of this is in addition to (the assumption) that you've made some faculty connections at GULC so far, and they would be VERY important for your clerkship ambitions.

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Bronte
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby Bronte » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:03 am

I don't know much about transferring (although I am in a similar position to you and did not consider transferring), I would take the votes associated with substantive posts in this thread more seriously than the poll. And those votes are lopsided in the other direction. I don't think you can go wrong; you'll be fine if you transfer, but the points people are making are strong.

somethingdemure
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby somethingdemure » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:08 am

I think you should stay. These polls are always lopsided toward transferring, because Georgetown vs. Yale is a no-brainer; if you were entering law school and deciding between both at sticker, there would be no question, and TLS is very much in a law school admissions mindset.

Yale places far more people into clerkships than Georgetown, but that statistic isn't at all relevant. The relevant consideration is whether top 1% Georgetown students are more or less likely to attain clerkships than Yale transfers, and I would be extremely surprised if Georgetown didn't win at that metric. You have a guaranteed year of stellar grades, and the opportunity to have recs from professors who gave you TWO good grades and feel like they've gotten to know you.

So, your short-term job won't change by transferring; if anything, they'll get worse. Question is, is the short-term benefit of staying worth the long-term benefit of leaving? Really tough question.

However, keep in mind that "I went to Yale Law School" is way more likely to help you get laid than "I went to Georgetown and got super good grades." FWIW.

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ndirish2010
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:21 am

Bronte wrote:However, keep in mind that "I went to Yale Law School" is way more likely to help you get laid than "I went to Georgetown and got super good grades." FWIW.


While this is true to some extent, GULC has quite a bit of lay prestige, no pun intended.

transferquest
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby transferquest » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:40 am

Its an interesting debate. I am not at Yale so I cannot speak for it. That said, I think scribe that it is very clear your gut is suggesting you stay. Personally, given your desire to both clerk in and practice big law litigation in DC, I cannot see an advantage to leaving for Yale. The only factor supporting Yale is prestige. I might consider running the question frankly and directly by some professors you have at Gtown if you are comfortable with your relationship. Given the number of top litigators and practitioners who teach as adjuncts at Georgetown, I believe your opportunities for growth are far greater there. Also, you've already proven yourself. For me, the opportunities at UVa (which I actually chose over Georgetown) were so much greater than my prior school (Penn State) that even if my "gut instinct" had been to stay, I would have been crazy to do so. That is not the case for you.

Best of luck. You have great options and have clearly laid the groundwork to get what you want.

transferquest
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Re: GULC to Yale: Should I go?

Postby transferquest » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:45 am

Also, keep in mind there is a lot of conjecture here. "Yale places far more in clerkships". Ok..if you are going to make this decision, make sure you get the actual numbers. Look at the top firms you are targeting in DC (I assume WC is at the top) and see how many yale grads are there vs. georgetown. Also, consider your quality of life in new haven v. DC. If that is not a consideration for you (it was a small but very significant one for me) fair enough.




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