Darn you all. I'm going.

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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Choose

Stay at NU
19
20%
Go to H-----D
51
54%
Go to H--l
24
26%
 
Total votes: 94

elmagic
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:49 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby elmagic » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:58 pm

lawyerkobe wrote:
elmagic wrote:Do people not grade-on at NU? Seems crazy that a 3.9+ isn't enough to grade on. Anyway, if all you want is biglaw then you should probably stay at NU. If you want other things like clerkships, I'd transfer to Harvard, cause I mean no LR seems like pretty much a killer for really good clerkships. Idk if I was an interviewer and saw a dude with a 3.9+ from NU interviewing at Harvard's EIP I'd be like wtf dude, why did you transfer. So make sure you have a good answer.


No grade ons.
36 seats. 10 are pure writing. 26 are half writing and half grades. The 26 get filled first.


Cray cray, that's kind of messed up, cause obviously you get people like OP who have really high grades but miss the cut.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby Holly Golightly » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:03 pm

elmagic wrote:Cray cray, that's kind of messed up, cause obviously you get people like OP who have really high grades but miss the cut.

Why is that messed up? If you don't have the skills to succeed at the writeon competition, you don't have the skills for law review. Getting good grades in issue spotter exams has absolutely nothing to do with being able to grammar and cite check. 100% grade-on makes no sense to me at all.

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rayiner
Posts: 6184
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Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:03 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:Depends on what market you're goin for. I get the sense that especially at top NYC firms, Harvard does quite a bit better than NU.


The top NYC firms recruit at NU and have no reason to treat a 3.9 NU -> HLS transfer differently than a 3.9 at NU.

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vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:08 pm

rayiner wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:Depends on what market you're goin for. I get the sense that especially at top NYC firms, Harvard does quite a bit better than NU.

The top NYC firms recruit at NU and have no reason to treat a 3.9 NU -> HLS transfer differently than a 3.9 at NU.

And yet, some do. It's not an enormous difference, but many top firms seem to particularly love H transfers. It may be because of how competitive it is. After all, even being 3.9 at NU doesn't guarantee you'd have gotten accepted as a transfer.

Based on what OP said, they should transfer.

elmagic
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:49 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby elmagic » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:15 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
elmagic wrote:Cray cray, that's kind of messed up, cause obviously you get people like OP who have really high grades but miss the cut.

Why is that messed up? If you don't have the skills to succeed at the writeon competition, you don't have the skills for law review. Getting good grades in issue spotter exams has absolutely nothing to do with being able to grammar and cite check. 100% grade-on makes no sense to me at all.


I guess you are right, you have to be pretty bad at grammar/cite check to be in the top 5% of your class and still not make it onto law review.

lawyerkobe
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:51 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby lawyerkobe » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:21 pm

elmagic wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:
elmagic wrote:Cray cray, that's kind of messed up, cause obviously you get people like OP who have really high grades but miss the cut.

Why is that messed up? If you don't have the skills to succeed at the writeon competition, you don't have the skills for law review. Getting good grades in issue spotter exams has absolutely nothing to do with being able to grammar and cite check. 100% grade-on makes no sense to me at all.


I guess you are right, you have to be pretty bad at grammar/cite check to be in the top 5% of your class and still not make it onto law review.


Not really. There are 26 spots that count grades as half. The class is 260. So 10% is 26.
So you figure a top 5% is 13th. So if another 14 do better on the writing enough to cancel out the advantage she has from grades, that does it. If we figure they roughly do the percentiles on the writing also, then she'd have to be past the top 15% of the writers to miss it. That's not crazy.
Add in that they teach ALWD citation in 1L, but the competition is in bluebook, and it's not crazy at all.

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rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:23 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:Depends on what market you're goin for. I get the sense that especially at top NYC firms, Harvard does quite a bit better than NU.

The top NYC firms recruit at NU and have no reason to treat a 3.9 NU -> HLS transfer differently than a 3.9 at NU.

And yet, some do. It's not an enormous difference, but many top firms seem to particularly love H transfers. It may be because of how competitive it is. After all, even being 3.9 at NU doesn't guarantee you'd have gotten accepted as a transfer.

Based on what OP said, they should transfer.


What firms? With a 3.9 at NU, you're basically a lock at any NYC firm besides Wachtell and maybe Boies. Does Wachtell hire HLS transfers?

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby keg411 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:24 pm

The reminder of NU's curve is making me second guess choosing Michigan :| .

lawyerkobe
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:51 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby lawyerkobe » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:25 pm

rayiner wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:Depends on what market you're goin for. I get the sense that especially at top NYC firms, Harvard does quite a bit better than NU.

The top NYC firms recruit at NU and have no reason to treat a 3.9 NU -> HLS transfer differently than a 3.9 at NU.

And yet, some do. It's not an enormous difference, but many top firms seem to particularly love H transfers. It may be because of how competitive it is. After all, even being 3.9 at NU doesn't guarantee you'd have gotten accepted as a transfer.

Based on what OP said, they should transfer.


What firms? With a 3.9 at NU, you're basically a lock at any NYC firm besides Wachtell and maybe Boies. Does Wachtell hire HLS transfers?


Like I said, I'm not too concerned about the firm job on either choice.
It's more a why not- there's only what to gain, choice.

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby bdubs » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:31 pm

lawyerkobe wrote:
elmagic wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:
elmagic wrote:Cray cray, that's kind of messed up, cause obviously you get people like OP who have really high grades but miss the cut.

Why is that messed up? If you don't have the skills to succeed at the writeon competition, you don't have the skills for law review. Getting good grades in issue spotter exams has absolutely nothing to do with being able to grammar and cite check. 100% grade-on makes no sense to me at all.


I guess you are right, you have to be pretty bad at grammar/cite check to be in the top 5% of your class and still not make it onto law review.


Not really. There are 26 spots that count grades as half. The class is 260. So 10% is 26.
So you figure a top 5% is 13th. So if another 14 do better on the writing enough to cancel out the advantage she has from grades, that does it. If we figure they roughly do the percentiles on the writing also, then she'd have to be past the top 15% of the writers to miss it. That's not crazy.
Add in that they teach ALWD citation in 1L, but the competition is in bluebook, and it's not crazy at all.


Does anyone know what the approximate ranks of current or former law review staff are?

Are there many people who get onto LR with the combo of grades and writing that are below top 1/3?

lawyerkobe
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:51 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby lawyerkobe » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:04 pm

Update: HLS tossed me 30k, making the only difference in price a somewhat higher cost of living.
And I suppose next year may be more expensive, since I will hopefully have more summer earnings.

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rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby rayiner » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:18 pm

bdubs wrote:
lawyerkobe wrote:
elmagic wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:Why is that messed up? If you don't have the skills to succeed at the writeon competition, you don't have the skills for law review. Getting good grades in issue spotter exams has absolutely nothing to do with being able to grammar and cite check. 100% grade-on makes no sense to me at all.


I guess you are right, you have to be pretty bad at grammar/cite check to be in the top 5% of your class and still not make it onto law review.


Not really. There are 26 spots that count grades as half. The class is 260. So 10% is 26.
So you figure a top 5% is 13th. So if another 14 do better on the writing enough to cancel out the advantage she has from grades, that does it. If we figure they roughly do the percentiles on the writing also, then she'd have to be past the top 15% of the writers to miss it. That's not crazy.
Add in that they teach ALWD citation in 1L, but the competition is in bluebook, and it's not crazy at all.


Does anyone know what the approximate ranks of current or former law review staff are?

Are there many people who get onto LR with the combo of grades and writing that are below top 1/3?


Law review is top 1% with okay writing to top 35% with very strong writing + those with superlative writing regardless of grades.

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Glock
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby Glock » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:27 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Transferthrowaway wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
scribelaw wrote:
I'm really surprised about how soft NU's curve must be at the top to have that many 3.9+. Georgetown's is much, much tighter.


3-5% must get an A+ in each class.


Are you kidding or is that the truth?


Actually I was wrong. It's 3-7%. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/academi ... olicy.html



That is a very interesting policy that causes some serious grade inflation. It does not matter much because everybody is ranked and such, but it does matter some because it is harder to recover from any low grades.

NU has all types of A at 25% minimum, 37% maximum. Importantly 3-7% of those NU A's are A+. My school is 2% max A+, 25% max A's of any kind and this puts the 10% somewhere around 3.6. Professors at NU appear to have more discretion than at my school. Anybody care to share how they use it? Is the curve closer to the minimum or maximum number of A's given.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:08 pm

lawyerkobe wrote:Update: HLS tossed me 30k, making the only difference in price a somewhat higher cost of living.

:?

What does this mean? They "tossed" you 30k?

Transferthrowaway
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby Transferthrowaway » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:11 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
lawyerkobe wrote:Update: HLS tossed me 30k, making the only difference in price a somewhat higher cost of living.

:?

What does this mean? They "tossed" you 30k?


He is over 26 and able to make himself look poor and thus eligible to receive grants.

lawyerkobe
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:51 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby lawyerkobe » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:13 pm

Transferthrowaway wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
lawyerkobe wrote:Update: HLS tossed me 30k, making the only difference in price a somewhat higher cost of living.

:?

What does this mean? They "tossed" you 30k?


He is over 26 and able to make himself look poor and thus eligible to receive grants.


heh?

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rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby rayiner » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:15 pm

Glock wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Transferthrowaway wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:3-5% must get an A+ in each class.


Are you kidding or is that the truth?


Actually I was wrong. It's 3-7%. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/academi ... olicy.html



That is a very interesting policy that causes some serious grade inflation. It does not matter much because everybody is ranked and such, but it does matter some because it is harder to recover from any low grades.

NU has all types of A at 25% minimum, 37% maximum. Importantly 3-7% of those NU A's are A+. My school is 2% max A+, 25% max A's of any kind and this puts the 10% somewhere around 3.6. Professors at NU appear to have more discretion than at my school. Anybody care to share how they use it? Is the curve closer to the minimum or maximum number of A's given.


The NU curve tends to help those at the top of the class. It creates a much more noticible spread between top 1/3, top 1/4, top 10%, top 5%. It also makes it easier to recover from a single really terrible grade if you otherwise consistently make A/A+. On the flip side I think it makes median folks look relatively worse.

lawyerkobe
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:51 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby lawyerkobe » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:19 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
lawyerkobe wrote:Update: HLS tossed me 30k, making the only difference in price a somewhat higher cost of living.

:?

What does this mean? They "tossed" you 30k?


It's an Olympic sport. The 30k toss.

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sunynp
Posts: 1899
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 2:06 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby sunynp » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:22 pm

lawyerkobe wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
lawyerkobe wrote:Update: HLS tossed me 30k, making the only difference in price a somewhat higher cost of living.

:?

What does this mean? They "tossed" you 30k?


It's an Olympic sport. The 30k toss.


You may not realize that should you go to Harvard some of the mods here will be your classmates. (or a year ahead of you.)
Last edited by sunynp on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lawgod
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:22 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby lawgod » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:32 pm

sunynp wrote:
lawyerkobe wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
lawyerkobe wrote:Update: HLS tossed me 30k, making the only difference in price a somewhat higher cost of living.

:?

What does this mean? They "tossed" you 30k?


It's an Olympic sport. The 30k toss.


You may not realize that should you go to Harvard some of the mods here will be your classmates. (or a year ahead of you.)


The heck? You have to go to Harvard to be a TLS mod also?

abl
Posts: 734
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:07 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby abl » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:38 pm

Um...in what universe will your biglaw chances be better out of NU than HLS? Or did I read that incorrectly?

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Lieut Kaffee
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Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:45 pm

scribelaw wrote:I have a hard time believing this is a good grading policy. It just devalues the high GPA, and firms/clerkships are going to look primarily at where you are in the class anyway.


You're missing the best part. They have no idea where we are in the class. #winning.

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vanwinkle
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:53 pm

lawyerkobe wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:What does this mean? They "tossed" you 30k?

It's an Olympic sport. The 30k toss.

Here's how the above reads to me:

What kind of BS is this? Are you trolling?

Yes. Yes, I am.

lawyerkobe
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:51 pm

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby lawyerkobe » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:59 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
lawyerkobe wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:What does this mean? They "tossed" you 30k?

It's an Olympic sport. The 30k toss.

Here's how the above reads to me:

What kind of BS is this? Are you trolling?

Yes. Yes, I am.


I'm not sure what the issue is. H has need based scholarships, and if you are over a certain age, they don't count your parents income. Thus, most people over whatever age, get some money.

sunynp wrote:
lawyerkobe wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
lawyerkobe wrote:Update: HLS tossed me 30k, making the only difference in price a somewhat higher cost of living.

:?

What does this mean? They "tossed" you 30k?


It's an Olympic sport. The 30k toss.


You may not realize that should you go to Harvard some of the mods here will be your classmates. (or a year ahead of you.)


Ok. Is that an issue? Do the mods not like poor people?

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vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Darn you all. I'm going.

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:13 pm

lawyerkobe wrote:I'm not sure what the issue is. H has need based scholarships, and if you are over a certain age, they don't count your parents income. Thus, most people over whatever age, get some money.

I know how the system works. I've been through it.

lawyerkobe wrote:Ok. Is that an issue? Do the mods not like poor people?

This isn't amusing, and I don't like liars or trolls.




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