Top 1% to Y or S

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only available to the creator of each thread. The anonymous posting feature is intended to permit the solicitation of anonymous advice regarding the transfer application process, chances of being accepted, etc. Unacceptable uses include: testing the feature, questions which are clearly fake or hypothetical in nature, harassing other users, etc. Posters should also read and understand the announcements posted at the top of the Transfers forum prior to using the anonymous feature.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

Y/S/Stay

Y and enjoy the prestige/clerkship/academia options
69
78%
S and enjoy the prestige/clerkship/beach
11
12%
Stay and be the big man/woman in chicago
9
10%
 
Total votes: 89

User avatar
Kronk
Posts: 28159
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:18 pm

Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby Kronk » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:33 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
scribelaw wrote:In your position, I'd go to Yale if you get in. If you're at Notre Dame it might be a little closer because that has more of a national brand. If you're at Indiana, I think it's a no-brainer -- go.

Your grades might slip a bit -- nothing personal, just regression to the mean -- and I'd think Yale is clearly better than top 3-5 percent at a T25.

Finishing No. 1 in the class has a lot of cachet, but it's hard to predict that will happen. Yale is the safer bet; you should sell high.


Not quite sure that Yale is better for most career paths than top 3-5% at a T25. It is better for some things for sure.


I can't think of anything Yale wouldn't be better for. No grades and a small class size = whatever you wanna do.

User avatar
YourCaptain
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby YourCaptain » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:21 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
scribelaw wrote:In your position, I'd go to Yale if you get in. If you're at Notre Dame it might be a little closer because that has more of a national brand. If you're at Indiana, I think it's a no-brainer -- go.

Your grades might slip a bit -- nothing personal, just regression to the mean -- and I'd think Yale is clearly better than top 3-5 percent at a T25.

Finishing No. 1 in the class has a lot of cachet, but it's hard to predict that will happen. Yale is the safer bet; you should sell high.


Not quite sure that Yale is better for most career paths than top 3-5% at a T25. It is better for some things for sure.


Name one thing that top 3% is better at.

User avatar
starchinkilt
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:22 am

Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby starchinkilt » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:25 pm

This thread is ridiculous. Enjoy Yale. Enjoy being able to do whatever you want with your law degree.

random5483
Posts: 684
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby random5483 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:22 pm

Stanford has no beach. I lived in Palo Alto for a few years, and I lived in the Bay/Sacramento areas for most of my life pre-law school, so I know what I am talking about. You can get to the bay or some fairly horrible beaches if you drive a bit, but they are no competition for the beaches in Southern California (ie. cold water/can't swim/etc).

With that said, Palo Alto is an awesome town and the Bay Area is one of the best places I can think of to live at. Still, I'd take Yale over Stanford.

M.I.T. L. Rev.
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:17 am

Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby M.I.T. L. Rev. » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:45 pm

YourCaptain wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
scribelaw wrote:In your position, I'd go to Yale if you get in. If you're at Notre Dame it might be a little closer because that has more of a national brand. If you're at Indiana, I think it's a no-brainer -- go.

Your grades might slip a bit -- nothing personal, just regression to the mean -- and I'd think Yale is clearly better than top 3-5 percent at a T25.

Finishing No. 1 in the class has a lot of cachet, but it's hard to predict that will happen. Yale is the safer bet; you should sell high.


Not quite sure that Yale is better for most career paths than top 3-5% at a T25. It is better for some things for sure.


Name one thing that top 3% is better at.
Having less debt. This is why OP needs to decide what he wants to do with his JD before he makes the decision. If he's going to transfer to Y, then end up at K&E in Chicago, he's just going to have 3x more debt to pay off. If he really burns for a shot at D.C. Cir., or a Bristow, or an A3 commission, he should go.

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby flcath » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:48 pm

YourCaptain wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
scribelaw wrote:In your position, I'd go to Yale if you get in. If you're at Notre Dame it might be a little closer because that has more of a national brand. If you're at Indiana, I think it's a no-brainer -- go.

Your grades might slip a bit -- nothing personal, just regression to the mean -- and I'd think Yale is clearly better than top 3-5 percent at a T25.

Finishing No. 1 in the class has a lot of cachet, but it's hard to predict that will happen. Yale is the safer bet; you should sell high.


Not quite sure that Yale is better for most career paths than top 3-5% at a T25. It is better for some things for sure.


Name one thing that top 3% is better at.

It depends on how he finishes at Yale.

We've had people who weren't top 3 (we have named awards for the top 3 students) get SCOTUS clerkships, which obviously a top 25% Yalie isn't going to get. Your statement about YLS > T25 EIC is patently false (I can point to where a good portion of our EICs are from the past two decades, and it's mostly academia or V5s), though I think you were probably just exaggerating for dramatic effect.

However, (a) for all we know, OP could end up being a superstar at Yale as well, and, more importantly, (b) we don't know that he'll finish top 3% at the T25. Which is why a transfer to Y is the way to go.

traydeuce
Posts: 680
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby traydeuce » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:00 pm

flcath wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:@TommyK: No, not limited to one region. OCI is much more national at Yale & Stanford than at Indiana or Illinois. Although top 1% at either law school is well equipped to work anywhere, a Yale or Stanford degree is likely to be more readily received than is an Illinois or Indiana degree. Bluntly stated: Securing job interviews nationwide is much easier with a Yale or Stanford law degree than it is with a degree from Illinois or Indiana.
As a sidenote, try speaking with some legal headhunters in the NYC area who have experience recruiting experienced attorneys for biglaw law firms. Two have written that their clients want certain law schools & were adament about this when challenged.

I think the sentiment here is accurate. It will be much easier (as in, literally, it can be done with greater ease, not necessarily likelihood) finding national work opportunities from S/Y. Of course, if OP maintains that kind of rank he'll be a CoA clerk for 100% certain, and will be recruited by firms for that.

I'd go S if I leaned toward Cali; Y if totally unsure.

Any choice (including staying) will leave you in a great position, which tends to happen when you finish top 1% at a T25.


This is an overstatement. I'm in the top 1% at Georgetown, and I don't think I'm a COA clerk for certain. I think it's a little more likely than not, but not at all a certainty. Georgetown typically places 20 students in COA clerkships; this year, 17 are applying from the Law Journal. (Another 17 are applying from the American Crim. L. Rev., a very prestigious secondary.) I'm not on the Law Journal or ACLR (I transferred). So you can easily see where those 17 take up most of the 20 spots, where the Crim applicants take up most of what's left, and I fall through the cracks due to an unexciting resume, fit, interviews, not being from the right geographic area... anything can happen. And anything can really happen to someone in the top of a t25 class. But honestly, it's hard to do well at Yale and not get a good clerkship.

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby flcath » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:11 pm

traydeuce wrote:
flcath wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:@TommyK: No, not limited to one region. OCI is much more national at Yale & Stanford than at Indiana or Illinois. Although top 1% at either law school is well equipped to work anywhere, a Yale or Stanford degree is likely to be more readily received than is an Illinois or Indiana degree. Bluntly stated: Securing job interviews nationwide is much easier with a Yale or Stanford law degree than it is with a degree from Illinois or Indiana.
As a sidenote, try speaking with some legal headhunters in the NYC area who have experience recruiting experienced attorneys for biglaw law firms. Two have written that their clients want certain law schools & were adament about this when challenged.

I think the sentiment here is accurate. It will be much easier (as in, literally, it can be done with greater ease, not necessarily likelihood) finding national work opportunities from S/Y. Of course, if OP maintains that kind of rank he'll be a CoA clerk for 100% certain, and will be recruited by firms for that.

I'd go S if I leaned toward Cali; Y if totally unsure.

Any choice (including staying) will leave you in a great position, which tends to happen when you finish top 1% at a T25.


This is an overstatement. I'm in the top 1% at Georgetown, and I don't think I'm a COA clerk for certain. I think it's a little more likely than not, but not at all a certainty. Georgetown typically places 20 students in COA clerkships; this year, 17 are applying from the Law Journal. (Another 17 are applying from the American Crim. L. Rev., a very prestigious secondary.) I'm not on the Law Journal or ACLR (I transferred). So you can easily see where those 17 take up most of the 20 spots, where the Crim applicants take up most of what's left, and I fall through the cracks due to an unexciting resume, fit, interviews, not being from the right geographic area... anything can happen. And anything can really happen to someone in the top of a t25 class. But honestly, it's hard to do well at Yale and not get a good clerkship.

Yeah but you kinda make my point, since you're a transfer. Your issue (and I say "issue," even though you'll still probably get CoA) is not being on a journal (preferably LR), which is a common side effect of transferring.

Depending on where you came from, you may have lowered your certainty of getting a CoA gig, as well (which doesn't mean it was a bad decision to transfer... I just tend to think that federal judges, unlike firms, value the actual experience of LR, beyond just the awesome grades it represents).

traydeuce
Posts: 680
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby traydeuce » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:01 am

flcath wrote:
traydeuce wrote:
flcath wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:@TommyK: No, not limited to one region. OCI is much more national at Yale & Stanford than at Indiana or Illinois. Although top 1% at either law school is well equipped to work anywhere, a Yale or Stanford degree is likely to be more readily received than is an Illinois or Indiana degree. Bluntly stated: Securing job interviews nationwide is much easier with a Yale or Stanford law degree than it is with a degree from Illinois or Indiana.
As a sidenote, try speaking with some legal headhunters in the NYC area who have experience recruiting experienced attorneys for biglaw law firms. Two have written that their clients want certain law schools & were adament about this when challenged.

I think the sentiment here is accurate. It will be much easier (as in, literally, it can be done with greater ease, not necessarily likelihood) finding national work opportunities from S/Y. Of course, if OP maintains that kind of rank he'll be a CoA clerk for 100% certain, and will be recruited by firms for that.

I'd go S if I leaned toward Cali; Y if totally unsure.

Any choice (including staying) will leave you in a great position, which tends to happen when you finish top 1% at a T25.


This is an overstatement. I'm in the top 1% at Georgetown, and I don't think I'm a COA clerk for certain. I think it's a little more likely than not, but not at all a certainty. Georgetown typically places 20 students in COA clerkships; this year, 17 are applying from the Law Journal. (Another 17 are applying from the American Crim. L. Rev., a very prestigious secondary.) I'm not on the Law Journal or ACLR (I transferred). So you can easily see where those 17 take up most of the 20 spots, where the Crim applicants take up most of what's left, and I fall through the cracks due to an unexciting resume, fit, interviews, not being from the right geographic area... anything can happen. And anything can really happen to someone in the top of a t25 class. But honestly, it's hard to do well at Yale and not get a good clerkship.

Yeah but you kinda make my point, since you're a transfer. Your issue (and I say "issue," even though you'll still probably get CoA) is not being on a journal (preferably LR), which is a common side effect of transferring.

Depending on where you came from, you may have lowered your certainty of getting a CoA gig, as well (which doesn't mean it was a bad decision to transfer... I just tend to think that federal judges, unlike firms, value the actual experience of LR, beyond just the awesome grades it represents).


Actually, I am the Managing Editor of a journal, but not a good one. Anyway, let's see. I came from W&L, where the editor in chief will often end up on the Eleventh Circuit. Sometimes they place 1 or 2 on the 4th; a couple judges go for them. You're basically fighting over the handful of judges that are known to like W&L people, and it's probably not a very attractive handful. Now, with a push from the right recommenders, I might land something a lot more prestigious than a lesser-known 4th Circuit judge. So I think I am a lot better-situated, being in the very top of a class twenty spots higher than the one I came from. Top 25's a little different... but there are so many judges out there who will just default for the Yale or Harvard applicant unless they're given a very compelling reason to do something different. And that compelling reason usually has to be more than great grades.

User avatar
Lawquacious
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:44 am

Enjoy Yale. Yale is a better law school than Stanford. It is the best law school--period. And in terms of the basic question of whether you should transfer, if you were at a T10 school in top 10% and on law review I think it might be a question. As it is, with you being at a T25 and having the option of Yale I do not think it is a question.

And lol re: the guy who tried to out you as being at UMinnesota. Even if he was right (which it sounds like he wasn't) I thought that was pretty obnoxious; you obviously expressed a preference for not outing the individual school you are at. Not to mention that I thought the advice he gave re: weighing the situation to be lulzy given that you got into Yale as a transfer from a T25. Just IMO.

cherub88
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:53 pm

Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby cherub88 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:05 am

I'm not qualified to say anything about the schools, but I will say that if you're thinking about Stanford in terms of its beaches, you'll be sorely disappointed. SoCal is where the beaches are.




Return to “Transfers”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.