Top 1% to Y or S

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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Y/S/Stay

Y and enjoy the prestige/clerkship/academia options
69
78%
S and enjoy the prestige/clerkship/beach
11
12%
Stay and be the big man/woman in chicago
9
10%
 
Total votes: 89

transfer?111
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Top 1% to Y or S

Postby transfer?111 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:07 am

Throwaway account btw....

So after 1L I was/am #2 overall at UMinn/IU/UIUC/ND. Been in the state im in for my entire life and if i stay here id be fine (i guess) with working in Chicago doing big law then possibly govt work/politics. Not gonna say if ive graded onto lr (not sure if all/any have that) but lets assume im on lr if i stay. I have a scholarship here for all but 10k a year (r/b included which family/savings covers) and im pretty confident if i stay that will go way down.

Sent in a few transfer apps and got into Y and S among others but those are the only ones im considering. Have 0 ties to either region. In fact, ive never been near either one in my life. I have no real preference for where id end up working either which makes this harder.

So, is it worth staying, being top dog (and possibly EIC) and staying in Chicago or is the sheer AWESOMENESS of a Y/S law degree something you cant pass up with no geographic preference?

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glewz
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby glewz » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:13 am

Visit both and then decide between the two; doesn't really matter which one.

But don't stay at your current.

transfer?111
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby transfer?111 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:21 am

you think the added effect of the degree means that much?

as impartial to places as i am, i dont think id like living in nyc due to the cost/hassle etc.... does that mean S is the easy choice? i feel like i was kinda leaning that way but i dont know how id pass up Y.

adammac17
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby adammac17 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:28 am

I'm sure there are countless post to back this up but outside of CA i dont think Stanford out places Yale in anything and Yale would cost less (if that even matters).

If you truly don't care, go to Yale. But i do agree with the above poster; visit both and if you like Stanford more, enjoy CA. I don't really see staying as an option here, though I am just an 0L.

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tyro
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby tyro » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:32 am

transfer?111 wrote:Throwaway account btw....

So after 1L I was/am #2 overall at UMinn/IU/UIUC/ND. Been in the state im in for my entire life and if i stay here id be fine (i guess) with working in Chicago doing big law then possibly govt work/politics. Not gonna say if ive graded onto lr (not sure if all/any have that) but lets assume im on lr if i stay. I have a scholarship here for all but 10k a year (r/b included which family/savings covers) and im pretty confident if i stay that will go way down.

Sent in a few transfer apps and got into Y and S among others but those are the only ones im considering. Have 0 ties to either region. In fact, ive never been near either one in my life. I have no real preference for where id end up working either which makes this harder.

So, is it worth staying, being top dog (and possibly EIC) and staying in Chicago or is the sheer AWESOMENESS of a Y/S law degree something you cant pass up with no geographic preference?


#2 at UM is fantastic and you deserve a pat on the back. The question now is whether or not the substantial increment of cost of attending a top Ivy is worth the potential gains given your scenario. You want to stay close to your family in Minnesota (I presume) and shouldn't neglect this factor in your decision. Based on meer speculation, your chances at BigLaw in Chicago will not be significantly increased by a transfer to Y/H. The main benefit of a transfer will be expanding from regional placement to national placement. BigLaw jobs are easiest to get in NYC which does reduce the chances of 'striking out' in this sense. It's important that you do some research on top firms, COL, social opportunities, etc before you consider a dicision. This is just my opinion though and PLEASE don't take it to mean more than that.

nstockholm
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby nstockholm » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:40 am

I haven't heard of Y or S accepting anyone yet. Has anybody else been accepted?

transfer?111
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby transfer?111 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:47 am

tyro wrote:
transfer?111 wrote:Throwaway account btw....

So after 1L I was/am #2 overall at UMinn/IU/UIUC/ND. Been in the state im in for my entire life and if i stay here id be fine (i guess) with working in Chicago doing big law then possibly govt work/politics. Not gonna say if ive graded onto lr (not sure if all/any have that) but lets assume im on lr if i stay. I have a scholarship here for all but 10k a year (r/b included which family/savings covers) and im pretty confident if i stay that will go way down.

Sent in a few transfer apps and got into Y and S among others but those are the only ones im considering. Have 0 ties to either region. In fact, ive never been near either one in my life. I have no real preference for where id end up working either which makes this harder.

So, is it worth staying, being top dog (and possibly EIC) and staying in Chicago or is the sheer AWESOMENESS of a Y/S law degree something you cant pass up with no geographic preference?


#2 at UM is fantastic and you deserve a pat on the back. The question now is whether or not the substantial increment of cost of attending a top Ivy is worth the potential gains given your scenario. You want to stay close to your family in Minnesota (I presume) and shouldn't neglect this factor in your decision. Based on meer speculation, your chances at BigLaw in Chicago will not be significantly increased by a transfer to Y/H. The main benefit of a transfer will be expanding from regional placement to national placement. BigLaw jobs are easiest to get in NYC which does reduce the chances of 'striking out' in this sense. It's important that you do some research on top firms, COL, social opportunities, etc before you consider a dicision. This is just my opinion though and PLEASE don't take it to mean more than that.


thanks you :) this is the great help i love when it comes out from TLS :). I'm not at UM (:O) but thats all i'll betray lol. i did pass up 1 higher acceptance for my SO who is instate with me here, but he/she would love CA, be ok with NYC, DC or elsewhere and "settle" for Chi lol.

my personal preference, if i have any, would be for Y.....i think this is a bit ranking-centric but.....

never been to the CA beach but......

also, not gonna lie, didnt get into this for money (ok, well kinda sorta) but living and paying NYC col kinda turns me off.

transfer?111
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby transfer?111 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:52 am

nstockholm wrote:I haven't heard of Y or S accepting anyone yet. Has anybody else been accepted?


phone call from Dean A monday afternoon and a voicemail from i think a rando in the Stanford admission office today, i'll listen to it again and be back. :) but they're out, im sure your call is coming :)

M.I.T. L. Rev.
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby M.I.T. L. Rev. » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:02 am

OP, you need to ask yourself what your career goals are. Don't just transfer because there is more "prestige." Lots of people (0L's in particular) will tell you to transfer for this reason alone. But if you want to work in Chicago, or the midwest, and don't have much interest in academia, you would be giving up a lot to transfer.

If you are dead-set on a "feeder" clerkship, or academia, transferring is probably worthwhile. But if not, you would be graduating from your school with practically 0 debt. This is very meaningful if your career goals are simply to get a good job, etc. You wouldn't believe how much money you can sock away by not having to devote $5,000/month to loan payments.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby YourCaptain » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:56 am

EIC at T25 midwest LR is not on the same level as Y/S; if your goal is just biglaw, stay. I would go though - Y/S is a unique opportunity that affords you opportunities that your current situation does not.

Transferthrowaway
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby Transferthrowaway » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:03 am

So Y/S has started making calls? You trollin bro?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:02 pm

If you transfer, then you can freeze your class rank at Illinois by including your #2 ranking on your Yale or Stanford resume. Otherwise your Illinois class rank may decrease, whereas a #2 first year class rank at Illinois plus a Yale/Stanford degree is forever if you transfer. But your primary consideration should be whether or not you want national placement/portability or whether you want to remain in the Illinois region.

A major consideration normally would include whether or not you made law review at your current school, but Yale is reported to be quite generous with journal options.

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TommyK
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby TommyK » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:06 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:If you transfer, then you can freeze your class rank at Illinois by including your #2 ranking on your Yale or Stanford resume. Otherwise your Illinois class rank may decrease, whereas a #2 plus a Yale/Stanford degree is forever. But your primary consideration should be whether or not you want national placement/portability or whether you want to remain in the Illinois region.

A major consideration normally would include whether or not you made law review at your current school, but Yale is reported to be quite generous with journal options.


Are you saying that top 1% at IU/UIUC/UM is limited regionally? I imagine top of the class at any of those schools would enjoy options all over the country if the applicant were so inclined.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:28 pm

You have three different tiers of school going on here. UIUC and ND are better than Minnesota, which is better than IU. OP isn't at ND since we don't rank. In any case, go to Yale.

ArtVandalay
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby ArtVandalay » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:33 pm

I know rankings aren't everything but how is Illinois a different tier and better than UM? Minn ranked 20 this year and Illinois were both 23 IIRC

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:38 pm

@TommyK: No, not limited to one region. OCI is much more national at Yale & Stanford than at Indiana or Illinois. Although top 1% at either law school is well equipped to work anywhere, a Yale or Stanford degree is likely to be more readily received than is an Illinois or Indiana degree. Bluntly stated: Securing job interviews nationwide is much easier with a Yale or Stanford law degree than it is with a degree from Illinois or Indiana.
As a sidenote, try speaking with some legal headhunters in the NYC area who have experience recruiting experienced attorneys for biglaw law firms. Two have written that their clients want certain law schools & were adament about this when challenged.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:40 pm

Agree that Notre Dame, Illinois & Minnesota are equals with respect to law school rankings, but that Notre Dame has more national name recognition & prestige with laypersons.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kronk
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby Kronk » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:42 pm

adammac17 wrote:I'm sure there are countless post to back this up but outside of CA i dont think Stanford out places Yale in anything and Yale would cost less (if that even matters).

If you truly don't care, go to Yale. But i do agree with the above poster; visit both and if you like Stanford more, enjoy CA. I don't really see staying as an option here, though I am just an 0L.


There are not countless posts to back it up because it isn't true.

Yale does better for clerkships. Stanford does just as well or better for everything else, and its location is way better. Stanford had better academia stats recently too, but that may be because a lot of top Yalies do clerkships first, hard to tell. Either way, they are peer schools.

flcath
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby flcath » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:45 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:@TommyK: No, not limited to one region. OCI is much more national at Yale & Stanford than at Indiana or Illinois. Although top 1% at either law school is well equipped to work anywhere, a Yale or Stanford degree is likely to be more readily received than is an Illinois or Indiana degree. Bluntly stated: Securing job interviews nationwide is much easier with a Yale or Stanford law degree than it is with a degree from Illinois or Indiana.
As a sidenote, try speaking with some legal headhunters in the NYC area who have experience recruiting experienced attorneys for biglaw law firms. Two have written that their clients want certain law schools & were adament about this when challenged.

I think the sentiment here is accurate. It will be much easier (as in, literally, it can be done with greater ease, not necessarily likelihood) finding national work opportunities from S/Y. Of course, if OP maintains that kind of rank he'll be a CoA clerk for 100% certain, and will be recruited by firms for that.

I'd go S if I leaned toward Cali; Y if totally unsure.

Any choice (including staying) will leave you in a great position, which tends to happen when you finish top 1% at a T25.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:56 pm

ArtVandalay wrote:I know rankings aren't everything but how is Illinois a different tier and better than UM? Minn ranked 20 this year and Illinois were both 23 IIRC


Placement. Who cares what USNWR says?

transfer?111
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby transfer?111 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:44 pm

Kronk wrote:
adammac17 wrote:I'm sure there are countless post to back this up but outside of CA i dont think Stanford out places Yale in anything and Yale would cost less (if that even matters).

If you truly don't care, go to Yale. But i do agree with the above poster; visit both and if you like Stanford more, enjoy CA. I don't really see staying as an option here, though I am just an 0L.


There are not countless posts to back it up because it isn't true.

Yale does better for clerkships. Stanford does just as well or better for everything else, and its location is way better. Stanford had better academia stats recently too, but that may be because a lot of top Yalies do clerkships first, hard to tell. Either way, they are peer schools.


anyone have any idea how transfers do in terms of clerkships? i imagine id be hard to make any lasting impact with profs as a transfer to get quality LoRs

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Kronk
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby Kronk » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:48 pm

transfer?111 wrote:
Kronk wrote:
adammac17 wrote:I'm sure there are countless post to back this up but outside of CA i dont think Stanford out places Yale in anything and Yale would cost less (if that even matters).

If you truly don't care, go to Yale. But i do agree with the above poster; visit both and if you like Stanford more, enjoy CA. I don't really see staying as an option here, though I am just an 0L.


There are not countless posts to back it up because it isn't true.

Yale does better for clerkships. Stanford does just as well or better for everything else, and its location is way better. Stanford had better academia stats recently too, but that may be because a lot of top Yalies do clerkships first, hard to tell. Either way, they are peer schools.


anyone have any idea how transfers do in terms of clerkships? i imagine id be hard to make any lasting impact with profs as a transfer to get quality LoRs


You have a year. All it takes is one good class and attending a lot of office hours / getting face time. Maybe take another class with that prof in the spring if possible.

But I don't know the answer.

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scribelaw
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby scribelaw » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:44 pm

In your position, I'd go to Yale if you get in. If you're at Notre Dame it might be a little closer because that has more of a national brand. If you're at Indiana, I think it's a no-brainer -- go.

Your grades might slip a bit -- nothing personal, just regression to the mean -- and I'd think Yale is clearly better than top 3-5 percent at a T25.

Finishing No. 1 in the class has a lot of cachet, but it's hard to predict that will happen. Yale is the safer bet; you should sell high.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:23 pm

scribelaw wrote:In your position, I'd go to Yale if you get in. If you're at Notre Dame it might be a little closer because that has more of a national brand. If you're at Indiana, I think it's a no-brainer -- go.

Your grades might slip a bit -- nothing personal, just regression to the mean -- and I'd think Yale is clearly better than top 3-5 percent at a T25.

Finishing No. 1 in the class has a lot of cachet, but it's hard to predict that will happen. Yale is the safer bet; you should sell high.


Not quite sure that Yale is better for most career paths than top 3-5% at a T25. It is better for some things for sure.

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scribelaw
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Re: Top 1% to Y or S

Postby scribelaw » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:33 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
scribelaw wrote:In your position, I'd go to Yale if you get in. If you're at Notre Dame it might be a little closer because that has more of a national brand. If you're at Indiana, I think it's a no-brainer -- go.

Your grades might slip a bit -- nothing personal, just regression to the mean -- and I'd think Yale is clearly better than top 3-5 percent at a T25.

Finishing No. 1 in the class has a lot of cachet, but it's hard to predict that will happen. Yale is the safer bet; you should sell high.


Not quite sure that Yale is better for most career paths than top 3-5% at a T25. It is better for some things for sure.


Hmm. Maybe, but in what career path would top 3-5 percent at, say, Indiana or Illinois be better than Yale? I can't think of one. I can think of a few where the T25 would be just as good, i.e. practicing in the Midwest. But you could take that career path very easily with Yale too.

I just think OP probably doesn't know exactly what he/she wants to do forever, these things are hard to predict, and Yale will open more doors for clerkships, academia, high-level government jobs, and the top BigLaw firms on the coasts.
Last edited by scribelaw on Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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