Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only available to the creator of each thread. The anonymous posting feature is intended to permit the solicitation of anonymous advice regarding the transfer application process, chances of being accepted, etc. Unacceptable uses include: testing the feature, questions which are clearly fake or hypothetical in nature, harassing other users, etc. Posters should also read and understand the announcements posted at the top of the Transfers forum prior to using the anonymous feature.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

What should I do?

Go to NYLS.
4
8%
Beg BLS to take you off the waitlist.
10
20%
Wait for another school. You will probably get in somewhere else.
6
12%
Stay at current school w/ scholly.
31
61%
 
Total votes: 51

Zazelmaf
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:42 pm

Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby Zazelmaf » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:27 pm

Here is my dilemma. I got into NYLS and I know how this board thinks of the school. However, it is my goal to live and work in NYC and I think I will do just as good as I did at my current school (T4).

I have a $13,000 scholarship at a school in the northeast, but I want to move to NYC.

I have been placed on a waiting list at Brooklyn Law School. NYLS wants my deposit by the 21st or so of July.

I don't have much money for this move. I cannot afford more than $1000 for a deposit (if I got into Cardozo). So if I pay $500 for a deposit into NYLS I'd probably just have to take it even if Brooklyn or Cardozo gave me an offer later.

What would you do?

DeliciousCake
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby DeliciousCake » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:45 pm

Zazelmaf wrote:Here is my dilemma. I got into NYLS and I know how this board thinks of the school. However, it is my goal to live and work in NYC and I think I will do just as good as I did at my current school (T4).

I have a $13,000 scholarship at a school in the northeast, but I want to move to NYC.

I have been placed on a waiting list at Brooklyn Law School. NYLS wants my deposit by the 21st or so of July.

I don't have much money for this move. I cannot afford more than $1000 for a deposit (if I got into Cardozo). So if I pay $500 for a deposit into NYLS I'd probably just have to take it even if Brooklyn or Cardozo gave me an offer later.

What would you do?


Do you have a guaranteed job for after law school? If you have something set up, and all you need is a degree, then go for it. Otherwise, probably don't. Read the TLS profile on NYLS. I think in the first two lines it says basically "do not go to this school" because of the high cost of tuition / not so great career prospects. If you are looking for similarly ranked schools that are better, try New England Law or something (although that's obviously regional only to Boston). Did you try for St John's or other schools around there?

Good luck with BLS!

Zazelmaf
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby Zazelmaf » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:00 pm

I did read the NYLS thing, including the New York Law Schools article which ranks the schools. That's why I am hesitant to go to NYLS. I did apply to St. John's, Rutgers, and a few others. I have no clue if a person put on a transfer waiting list has a good shot of getting accepted. I was surprised I was put on it.

I was actually accepted to New England Law in Boston but went to another school instead. Either way, I'd wait until the last day and send in the deposit if I have not heard from St John's or better.

m1234
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby m1234 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:37 am

If you are looking for a big firm job in NYC do not transfer to NYLS. Very few firms hire from here and to even have a shot you need to be in the very top of the class (generally top 5% and possibly top 10%). Transferring to NYLS will actually hurt your chances, because transfers are viewed differently having not gone through the first year. Also, Brooklyn is not a great choice either it faces the same job placement difficulties as NYLS and doesn't fare much better. If you are set on practicing in NYC and don't care what kind of job it may be worth it, because NYLS' location provides opportunities for career placement (like all NYC schools). But for this to be true your school would have to have very few to no contacts with NYC. (Check those coming to OCI at your school. If there are no NYC positions and you know you want to practice in NYC it may be worth it. But if you have a shot at a firm position coming from your school and that firm has offices in NYC you may be able to transfer from that firm to an NYC firm)

AP-375
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:18 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby AP-375 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:44 am

I said stay at your current school, because if your grades are decent enough to be able to transfer, then hopefully you might be able to find some paying job when you graduate from your current school. Then, once you have a paying job in the northeast, you could look into lateraling/moving to NYC somehow, and at least you'd be able to do it with more than $500 in your pocket and no job prospects. Good luck!

areyouinsane
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:22 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby areyouinsane » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:14 pm

It's funny how pre-laws think there's a substantive difference between TTT laughingstocks like NYLS, 'Bozo, Brooklyn, St John's etc. These dumps are all the same: high cost, weak prospects, and basically open admission.

Bramwell
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:29 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby Bramwell » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:16 pm

You say that you have a $13,000 scholarship where you are. I suppose the relevant question is how much does that leave you paying? Also relevant, what is your rank?

Im presently top 1% at NYLS. Career services congratulated me on making it to comfortably within the top 10 students in the class of 500 who can reasonably expect to get interviews at OCI this Fall.

In all honesty, I really enjoyed my first year there. Professors I had were top of the line, pleasant class-mates. Top notch new building. However, my ultimate goal, and Im sure that of the OP, is to get a job at the end.

With that picture in mind, I cant imagine it being worth OP's significant financial investment to transfer to this school and pay full price.

Zazelmaf
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby Zazelmaf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:28 am

I think I am going to go to NYLS. None of the OCI firms at my school are in NYC, and I can't see the point in gambling the deposit hoping I get into St. John's or Cardozo. I have been under review at both for way too long and figure that I have a rejection coming anyway. Thanks for the input.

User avatar
sunynp
Posts: 1899
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 2:06 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby sunynp » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:06 am

You must read the article in todays New York Times about NYLS. You will see that it is not just the impression of people on this forum that the school is too expensive and there are no jobs from there. Also the reputation of the school is going to suffer from this article, keep that in mind.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=160820

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/busin ... f=business

User avatar
kapital98
Posts: 1188
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:58 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby kapital98 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:09 am

areyouinsane wrote:It's funny how pre-laws think there's a substantive difference between TTT laughingstocks like NYLS, 'Bozo, Brooklyn, St John's etc. These dumps are all the same: high cost, weak prospects, and basically open admission.


Cardozo and Brooklyn only accept the top 10-15% of LSAT takers at a minimum. That's what you call open admissions?!?!? These schools are in a different league than NYLS, St. John's, and Hofstra but definitely below other schools like Fordham.

Are you insane? :lol:

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby Grizz » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:28 am

Zazelmaf wrote:I think I am going to go to NYLS. None of the OCI firms at my school are in NYC, and I can't see the point in gambling the deposit hoping I get into St. John's or Cardozo. I have been under review at both for way too long and figure that I have a rejection coming anyway. Thanks for the input.


Did you not read the post above you where a poster said that basically 2% of his class has a shot at OCI?

User avatar
TommyK
Posts: 1309
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:08 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby TommyK » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:33 am

rad law wrote:
Zazelmaf wrote:I think I am going to go to NYLS. None of the OCI firms at my school are in NYC, and I can't see the point in gambling the deposit hoping I get into St. John's or Cardozo. I have been under review at both for way too long and figure that I have a rejection coming anyway. Thanks for the input.


Did you not read the post above you where a poster said that basically 2% of his class has a shot at OCI?


RadLaw, but OP is different. With enough hard work and determination, he's bound to be one of those 10 / 500 students. He wants it more.

Zazelmaf
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby Zazelmaf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:34 am

Yeah, I did read that, but OCI at my school is not better. There are no firms hiring from NYC (I think there's about 10-15 coming to OCI total). Many of the positions are in a state over, and I don't drive, which makes it very difficult for me. I would rather return to a major city where I don't have to worry about a car and the expense of one, which I don't think I can afford. Also, my spouse will be continuing school in NYC, and if I don't transfer, it puts her about a half-year, year behind, as she would have to reapply here.

I do get the point about the article. I imagine it won't help NYLS's image, but I'd still have a better shot at NYC from there than here, and NYC is where I want to be.

User avatar
TommyK
Posts: 1309
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:08 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby TommyK » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:39 am

Zazelmaf wrote:Yeah, I did read that, but OCI at my school is not better. There are no firms hiring from NYC (I think there's about 10-15 coming to OCI total). Many of the positions are in a state over, and I don't drive, which makes it very difficult for me. I would rather return to a major city where I don't have to worry about a car and the expense of one, which I don't think I can afford. Also, my spouse will be continuing school in NYC, and if I don't transfer, it puts her about a half-year, year behind, as she would have to reapply here.

I do get the point about the article. I imagine it won't help NYLS's image, but I'd still have a better shot at NYC from there than here, and NYC is where I want to be.


OP - people are advocating the financially responsible thing here. No matter what school you graduate from, you'll be facing rough job prospects. So these posters are trying to push you into a situation that will saddle you with the least debt.

If you're saying there are external factors that will tip it into a different direction, then that's something you can only decide. If for family reasons, you need to transfer to NYC, that's a factor. If saving money from a car expense will somewhat mitigate the cost differential between your current NE TTTT and NYC TTTT, then that should be factored in. The resounding results from the poll and the responses here suggest you stay where you are, but it seems you're determined to transfer anyway. Good luck.

User avatar
sunynp
Posts: 1899
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 2:06 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby sunynp » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:41 am

Here is a relevant comment posted to the NY times website:

My best friend fairly recently graduated from NYLS. She was 4th in her class, and on law review. I graduated from Michigan Law School, somewhere in the top 1/3rd of my class, and not on law review. I got several job offers at very high level firms. She got a few callbacks, and no offers.

Worse, my best friend wants to work in public interest law -- her dream has always been to do child advocacy -- and she hasn't even gotten a callback from the obvious agencies, including Legal Aid, although she's been trying for several years in a row now. The career placement office at NYLS has been clueless and totally unhelpful and, as mentioned in the article, doesn't seem to know the least thing about public interest work. The worst part is, some NYLS graduates would actually have a chance at working in public interest, especially because they are already geographically advantaged by being in New York. What a loss to the public as well as to them.

People applying to law schools need to know what the realities are. I told and told my friend, but she had to learn it on her own. I'm sorry that's the case, but even sorrier that deans aren't out there telling people what reality is. And why should they? After all, it runs dead counter to their self-interest.

It's all such a scam, honestly. But until people wake up and stop signing up for the scam, nothing will change. As has been said, without even a modicum of accountability, there is no pressure for NYLS to change its course, irrespective of who the dean is and what words he mouths so glibly as his graduates remain out of work, broke and ruing their choice.


It doesn't matter if NYLS is in NYC. You will not have better prospects at getting a job in NYC from there. If you still don't understand why, re-read the above comment until you get it.

User avatar
zanda
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:36 am

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby zanda » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:16 am

goodness don't go

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby MrAnon » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:19 am

Stay away from all these schools. If you can't afford tuition deposits now you are in for a world of hurt in 3 years.

User avatar
Nogameisfair
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:05 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby Nogameisfair » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:28 am

I've worked in the NY legal market before law school, and I'll be going to a large NY firm in the fall. I honestly believe you will have a better shot at being employed in NY from a school with no reputation in NY rather than NYLS, which has a terrible reputation in NY. The few people I know who have gone to NYLS and gotten a job all either transfered or had amazing connections before law school. Do not spend $150k betting on this place, it's a suckers bet.
Last edited by Nogameisfair on Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Zazelmaf
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby Zazelmaf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:30 am

Thank you for your replies. This is something for me to consider, and I have been holding off. Some have pointed out that I have already made up my mind, but I have not yet. I still have apps out to Rutgers-Newark, St. John's, Cardozo and may be able to get off of the waiting list at Brooklyn. I was top 18%, but can't help but feel that I might not get into any of these schools (been in review for some of them for going on 3 weeks now). I have seen people so far this cycle with lower ranks than me getting into some of these schools and it worries me. Did I do something wrong on the application? I don't know.

Either way, I will see what happens this week. I just hate the early deposit deadlines. Thanks for all of your advice so far.

User avatar
Nogameisfair
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:05 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby Nogameisfair » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:33 am

Zazelmaf wrote:Thank you for your replies. This is something for me to consider, and I have been holding off. Some have pointed out that I have already made up my mind, but I have not yet. I still have apps out to Rutgers-Newark, St. John's, Cardozo and may be able to get off of the waiting list at Brooklyn. I was top 18%, but can't help but feel that I might not get into any of these schools (been in review for some of them for going on 3 weeks now). I have seen people so far this cycle with lower ranks than me getting into some of these schools and it worries me. Did I do something wrong on the application? I don't know.

Either way, I will see what happens this week. I just hate the early deposit deadlines. Thanks for all of your advice so far.


If you can get in-state tuition at Rutgers, that would be a good idea. It opens up mid-sized or small firms in Jersey. I have a lot of friends in these types of firms and they claim the work environment is way better than practice in the City.

areyouinsane
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:22 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby areyouinsane » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:33 am

Cardozo and Brooklyn only accept the top 10-15% of LSAT takers at a minimum. That's what you call open admissions?!?!? These schools are in a different league than NYLS, St. John's, and Hofstra but definitely below other schools like Fordham


Fordham I'll give you, but the other two toilets ('Bozo and Brooklyn) are for employment purposes basically no different than Hofstra, Touro, or Rutger/Seton Hall. Even when times were better (early to mid 2000s) these schools churned out a HUGE number of doc review temps.

User avatar
IrwinM.Fletcher
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:55 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:09 pm

Zazelmaf wrote:Thank you for your replies. This is something for me to consider, and I have been holding off. Some have pointed out that I have already made up my mind, but I have not yet. I still have apps out to Rutgers-Newark, St. John's, Cardozo and may be able to get off of the waiting list at Brooklyn. I was top 18%, but can't help but feel that I might not get into any of these schools (been in review for some of them for going on 3 weeks now). I have seen people so far this cycle with lower ranks than me getting into some of these schools and it worries me. Did I do something wrong on the application? I don't know.

Either way, I will see what happens this week. I just hate the early deposit deadlines. Thanks for all of your advice so far.


Even at the most rancid non-NYC TTTT, top 18% has at least SOME shot at landing a small firm gig if you network well. Stay and save the debt. You need to quit being such an adolescent with this "I really, really, REALLY wanna work in New York!" stuff and realize you are on the brink of making a decision which will almost certainly ruin you and your significant other's financial lives for perpetuity. Do you realize the loan payments on just the two years at NYLS will run you something like 1500 after tax dollars every month for ten years? You're never going to get out from under that.

You will be treated as a median student for job hunt purposes at a place like NYLS if you transfer in. Guess how many median students there will be employed at graduation? None (unless your pops owns a firm in the city, which clearly yours does not).

Sorry to be a douche, but you need sense slapped into you and clearly polite advice has not gotten the point across. Do not be an idiot and ruin your life when you have a choice.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:16 pm

Zazelmaf wrote:Yeah, I did read that, but OCI at my school is not better. There are no firms hiring from NYC (I think there's about 10-15 coming to OCI total). Many of the positions are in a state over, and I don't drive, which makes it very difficult for me. I would rather return to a major city where I don't have to worry about a car and the expense of one, which I don't think I can afford. Also, my spouse will be continuing school in NYC, and if I don't transfer, it puts her about a half-year, year behind, as she would have to reapply here.

I do get the point about the article. I imagine it won't help NYLS's image, but I'd still have a better shot at NYC from there than here, and NYC is where I want to be.


NYC blows when you have no money, and you'll have no money coming out of NYLS.

AnyRandChangedmylife
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:31 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby AnyRandChangedmylife » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:39 pm

NYLS may not be the worst school in the world. Really, we need to hear more about the current school that you are attending before we let you know what we think you should do.

You mentioned Cardozo, Brooklyn, St. John's and Rutgers, all of which are fine schools. If you get into any of those, you should (and I imagine you will) take either of those. I am sure with an 18% rank you should at least get one, and hell, maybe you will have a choice of a few.

E-mail Brooklyn and ask for them to take you off the waitlist. Tell them that you have a week to accept another school and you really want to go to Brooklyn, but you have to be in New York, and if you don't get off the waitlist, you won't be able to attend. Brooklyn would be a fine school to go to, and is quite a jump up in rank from T4. Show them that you can take control. Schools secretly seem to like that in an applicant.

I imagine Rutgers and especially St. John's will accept you with your numbers unless you really flufferpuffed the application. Some schools just take a very long time getting back with a decision.

If you can get Rutgers I would take it, as tuition is much less than other schools, especially if you became a Jersey resident. It might even be less than what you are paying now, after scholarship. Do the math. If you can't get the scholarship, it still might end up being better. You'd still have a solid chance of getting into NYC.

If only NYLS offers you admission, then you need to think long and hard about your goals. Talk to some current students, research, and ask yourself where you want to be. It is clear you want to be in New York, and really, who doesn't? It's a great city. But, the price you are thinking of paying is very VERY high and VERY risky. Good luck.

Zazelmaf
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go now? NYLS edition.

Postby Zazelmaf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:44 pm

I am going to try that advice. I thought about e-mailing Brooklyn and letting them know of my situation, but was worried it would look bad. Should I do it as a letter of continued interest? Like:

Dear Brooklyn Law School,

I am greatly interested in attending BLS, however, I was recently admitted to another school in NYC and have a week to make my mind up. I would love to attend, but for my career and personal goals I need to make a decision fast. If granted admission into Brooklyn I would accept, but if not, I must accept the offer that is being given to me by the other school so I know for sure I have a spot in NYC. I greatly appreciate your time and consideration and look forward to hearing back from you.

---
I don't know, I tend to think it reeks of desperation and probably has been done before without very good results. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?




Return to “Transfers”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.