GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

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wallberlin
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GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby wallberlin » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:37 pm

Did well my first year but apparently not well enough for Boalt. Just got the rejection this afternoon. I think I have a shot at Hastings, but I would be giving up a hefty scholarship and law review. If you were in my situation, what would you do?

CindyLarson84
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby CindyLarson84 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:38 pm

What rank/tier is GG?

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Mick Haller
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:40 pm

how much total debt after Hastings?

Zazelmaf
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby Zazelmaf » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:42 pm

I almost went to GGU. Instead I moved across the country to attend a school in the NE which is similarly rated. I am applying to Hastings and well, and if I get in, I would definitely try to take it, even over a good sized scholarship (no law review, however).

I'd strongly consider if I were you.

Danteshek
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby Danteshek » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:43 pm

Transfer. No class ranking or LR at GGU will make up the difference.

westbayguy
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby westbayguy » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:44 pm

I once faced your problem.

Unless you plan to go into solo practice for yourself- there is no question- Hastings.

They might even throw you a few dollars, if not this year- next

You have virtually NO employability from GGU. It is a 4th tier, at best.

If you did well at GGU (top10-20%), you can do well at Hastings and have a shot at govt, or small firm in all Calif. Long term your prospects are MUCH better at Hastings, especially in the bay area.

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Mick Haller
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:13 pm

westbayguy wrote:I once faced your problem.

Unless you plan to go into solo practice for yourself- there is no question- Hastings.

They might even throw you a few dollars, if not this year- next

You have virtually NO employability from GGU. It is a 4th tier, at best.

If you did well at GGU (top10-20%), you can do well at Hastings and have a shot at govt, or small firm in all Calif. Long term your prospects are MUCH better at Hastings, especially in the bay area.


as a current top 15-20% Hastings student, career prospects in the bay area dont feel so good

you are right about one thing though, Hastings will probably give between 8-12k in need based aid. it's still expensive though.

wallberlin
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby wallberlin » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:32 pm

Thanks for all the advice. Now all I need to do is get in.

harborleaguemvp
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby harborleaguemvp » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:52 pm

Transfer. It is in your best interest to transfer to as high as a school as you can from a TTTT given the degree of elitism in the legal profession.

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Birdman
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby Birdman » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:04 pm

From someone similarly situated, transfer.

random5483
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby random5483 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:25 am

I am not sure if I agree with some of the above posts. Law Review + Significant scholarship at GGU > Hastings IMO (as a transfer...not as a 1L).

With that said, neither is a particularly enviable position :(


Disclaimer: I know very little about either school.

missinglink
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby missinglink » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:45 pm

random5483 wrote:I am not sure if I agree with some of the above posts. Law Review + Significant scholarship at GGU > Hastings IMO (as a transfer...not as a 1L).

With that said, neither is a particularly enviable position :(


Disclaimer: I know very little about either school.

GGU is pretty much the lowest of ranked law schools in the city. I would very much recommend transferring if you can.

As someone who only did his first-year at Hastings, I can't comment on the job market.

Like was mentioned above, you'll probably qualify for a need-based scholarship in some amount.

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drdolittle
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby drdolittle » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:35 pm

random5483 wrote:I am not sure if I agree with some of the above posts. Law Review + Significant scholarship at GGU > Hastings IMO (as a transfer...not as a 1L).

With that said, neither is a particularly enviable position :(

Disclaimer: I know very little about either school.

Lol, then why post? This decision is mainly about the schools.

OP: Did you apply to UCLA and the like? If not, I'd still transfer to Hastings, where you should graduate with significantly less than average debt and your job prospects will be better.

Whether transferring is worth it or not is ultimately a personal decision. There's no guarantee that transferring to Hastings will assure you a job either. But it should increase your chances. And of course attending GGU is costing you at least time and COL now as well. Unfortunately since it seems those who can typically transfer out of GGU, if you don't, I'd think the assumption will be that you couldn't. This is really stupid, but it just seems to be the way the legal "market" operates. All this is moot though if you have great connections, or have other reasons to believe that you'll be able to find a decent job upon graduating from GGU so highly ranked.
Last edited by drdolittle on Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wallberlin
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby wallberlin » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:46 pm

I didn't apply to UCLA. Only in the Bay area (my wife has a good job here so didn't want to relocate). Someone suggested sending an app there since their deadline isn't until next Friday, but I would think that would be throwing good money after bad.

Plus my thought was always that I might have a somewhat decent shot at Boalt because of the prox. of the schools and that I have prof reccos from people who teach over there in addition to GGU.

But since we're here anyway, do you think it's worth it to send them an app at this point? My stats are TTTT (obviously) top 2-3%, 4 Witkins and a Cali, softs include political experience in DC and 2+ years in the ad industry.

wallberlin
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby wallberlin » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:49 pm

UPDATE: I literally just got accepted at Hastings a minute ago so this is no longer completely theoretical.

harborleaguemvp
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby harborleaguemvp » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:52 pm

Congrats

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drdolittle
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby drdolittle » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:11 pm

wallberlin wrote:I didn't apply to UCLA. Only in the Bay area (my wife has a good job here so didn't want to relocate). Someone suggested sending an app there since their deadline isn't until next Friday, but I would think that would be throwing good money after bad.

Plus my thought was always that I might have a somewhat decent shot at Boalt because of the prox. of the schools and that I have prof reccos from people who teach over there in addition to GGU.

But since we're here anyway, do you think it's worth it to send them an app at this point? My stats are TTTT (obviously) top 2-3%, 4 Witkins and a Cali, softs include political experience in DC and 2+ years in the ad industry.

Congrats on the acceptance. I guess whether you should even bother applying to UCLA depends on your wife's job, whether you're willing to live apart, or if she's willing to quit it, etc... I personally wouldn't do it. UCLA's just not that much of a step up from Hastings as far as I'm concerned to justify uprooting your personal life so much. And for bay area employers, even if you end up transferring to Hastings, your GGU creds will mean something. They'll mean less in SoCal, which is where you're most likely find a job out of UCLA.

kings84_wr transferred from I think Indiana to UCLA last year and he's made some nice posts on the process. Maybe PM him or search his posts. If I recall correctly though, transfers to UCLA were regarded as about median during OCI, which to me is not good enough when balanced against strong reasons to stay in the bay area. But I can certainly see others disagreeing on this.

Total Litigator
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby Total Litigator » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:15 pm

Throw app to UCLA. UCLA will put you at least on par with Hastings for San Fran, and way better anywhere else.

CanadianWolf
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:37 pm

UCLA if your marriage is healthy & can stand the separation during the school year.

missinglink
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby missinglink » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:53 pm

drdolittle wrote:
wallberlin wrote:I didn't apply to UCLA. Only in the Bay area (my wife has a good job here so didn't want to relocate). Someone suggested sending an app there since their deadline isn't until next Friday, but I would think that would be throwing good money after bad.

Plus my thought was always that I might have a somewhat decent shot at Boalt because of the prox. of the schools and that I have prof reccos from people who teach over there in addition to GGU.

But since we're here anyway, do you think it's worth it to send them an app at this point? My stats are TTTT (obviously) top 2-3%, 4 Witkins and a Cali, softs include political experience in DC and 2+ years in the ad industry.

Congrats on the acceptance. I guess whether you should even bother applying to UCLA depends on your wife's job, whether you're willing to live apart, or if she's willing to quit it, etc... I personally wouldn't do it. UCLA's just not that much of a step up from Hastings as far as I'm concerned to justify uprooting your personal life so much. And for bay area employers, even if you end up transferring to Hastings, your GGU creds will mean something. They'll mean less in SoCal, which is where you're most likely find a job out of UCLA.

kings84_wr transferred from I think Indiana to UCLA last year and he's made some nice posts on the process. Maybe PM him or search his posts. If I recall correctly though, transfers to UCLA were regarded as about median during OCI, which to me is not good enough when balanced against strong reasons to stay in the bay area. But I can certainly see others disagreeing on this.


From what I gathered, and I did a lot of research before deciding to go Hastings ---> UCLA, how you're viewed at OCI depends a lot on the school you're coming from. So for instance, if you're coming from IU at UCLA OCI, employers really won't know what to make of you. Anecdotal reports that I got had Davis/Hastings folks doing better there than people from T3/T4 schools that are not well-known in California.

So in the OP's situation, as a GGU transfer, he'd be evaluated as a GGU student during OCI - whereas in my situation, I'll be viewed as a Hastings student at OCI. Or at least that's how it seems to work in theory. In other words, whether you're transferring from a T1, T2, T3, or T4 school matters w/r/t OCI performance.

I guess I'll report back later to see if this is actually true. Given the OP's situation, I'd probably stick with Hastings, especially since he has a wife that lives in the area. I don't think being a GGU transfer will get you very far in Southern California. His best bet are firms that have hired GGU grads in the past. This is the case for 2L OCI at least. If one has to hit the job market past that, because of striking out or whatnot, then I think the calculus changes.

missinglink
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby missinglink » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:58 pm

I should add that the UCLA application deadline was July 5th, so if you haven't applied, that boat has sailed.

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Lawquacious
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby Lawquacious » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:59 pm

Do a poll...

wallberlin
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby wallberlin » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:01 pm

Ah, absolutely right on the 7/5 deadline to UCLA...someone told me in passing today that it was 7/15. At least it makes that decision way easier.

It seems like the mob is screaming Hastings over GGU. I read on the TLS.com write up that the curve is horrendous, though who knows how up to date that is. Anyone have any recent experience there with the upper division curve? Also, know of any transfers to Hastings that successfully wrote on to one of their journals?

Thanks again to everyone for the incite. This has been really helpful.

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stonepeep
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby stonepeep » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:27 am

For the love of god, transfer. GGU job prospects are abysmal. The situation at Hastings isn't spectacular but it's not terrible, either, and it's miles better than GGU.

Don't put any stock in the TLS article. The curve was relaxed a few years ago and it's fine - definitely wouldn't qualify it as brutal. I think it's pretty on par with curves at other schools but then, it's not like I've researched the subject. Also, there's no "upper division curve," as the curve is the same for every class of 30+ students, upper division and 1L classes alike.

Writing on to journals: the Hastings Law Journal reserves a few spots for transfers (who are selected solely based on their write on submission). No idea about other journals but I believe some of them consider transfers as well. There is a separate due date for transfers so you should still have time to do it. Contact the scholarly publications department, but wait until next week as the guy you need to talk to is on vacation until the 11th.

missinglink
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Re: GGU to Hastings - Is it worth it?

Postby missinglink » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:07 am

The TLS article is out of date. The curve was eased a couple of years ago.

For the A range, for classes over 30 students, the curve allows 15-25% As.




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