Value in transferring w/out journal?

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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megamanx
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:51 pm

Value in transferring w/out journal?

Postby megamanx » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:06 am

I'm looking at moving from GMU to GULC in the fall. I will probably get on a journal at my old school but won't be able to find out about membership at GULC until after its too late to back out. Assuming the worst case scenario where I don't get selected for any journal, is it even worth it moving schools without journal on your resume your second year?

Thanks

kaiser
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 11:34 pm

Re: Value in transferring w/out journal?

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:12 am

Uh I think you have it backwards. If anything, having LR at your old school makes it so you are giving something up and leaving something behind. If you don't get LR, then what is tying you to the old school aside from money? If I had LR, I would be hesitant to transfer because, depending on your situation, LR might mean enough to weigh in favor of staying.

And employers at the new school wont care tha you made LR at the old one since the value of LR is participating in it and gaining the technical skills. Writing down "made LR at old school' is just words on a page with nearly no value.

ToTransferOrNot
Posts: 1928
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:45 am

Re: Value in transferring w/out journal?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:17 am

kaiser wrote:Uh I think you have it backwards. If anything, having LR at your old school makes it so you are giving something up and leaving something behind. If you don't get LR, then what is tying you to the old school aside from money? If I had LR, I would be hesitant to transfer because, depending on your situation, LR might mean enough to weigh in favor of staying.

And employers at the new school wont care tha you made LR at the old one since the value of LR is participating in it and gaining the technical skills. Writing down "made LR at old school' is just words on a page with nearly no value.


lol, no. The value of law review is that your firm bio line has "law review." The actual experience of being on Law Review - or any other journal - is worthless with respect to "skills development". That said, you're right that having "invited to [original school] law review" isn't good for much, though it's worth throwing on the page.

Back to the OP: What is your class rank? There's a big difference between 5% w/LR and 15% w/LR. How many firms are coming to your original school's OCI? Are they from the market you want to be in (presumably DC)? DC is an incredibly tough nut to crack regardless of where you go to school, so you should probably be aiming for NYC as well. Why are you only contemplating GULC? Of the T14, GULC is far and away the worst for transfers because of the massive transfer class size (generally around 100, IIRC).

megamanx
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Value in transferring w/out journal?

Postby megamanx » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:27 am

We are still waiting on rankings but I'd estimate I am still in the top 5% (top 15 students or so). Our OCI is pretty weak though and most big firms do not go to my current school. In fact, I think maybe 20 or so students received offers from larger firms last year and the school certainly does't rank on the Top 50 schools for placement in biglaw.

GULC is the only school I applied to because I wanted to stay in the VA area with my wife. I already paid the seat deposit but I believe I still have a while to think about it.

How does massive transfer class size equate to a bad experience? That would probably be good to know before jumping in head first.

megamanx
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Value in transferring w/out journal?

Postby megamanx » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:30 am

kaiser wrote:Uh I think you have it backwards. If anything, having LR at your old school makes it so you are giving something up and leaving something behind. If you don't get LR, then what is tying you to the old school aside from money? If I had LR, I would be hesitant to transfer because, depending on your situation, LR might mean enough to weigh in favor of staying.

And employers at the new school wont care tha you made LR at the old one since the value of LR is participating in it and gaining the technical skills. Writing down "made LR at old school' is just words on a page with nearly no value.


Also I must have written the first comment sloppily so my bad. I wouldn't put that I was accepted at the old school on my resume. I'm just trying to figure out how how valuable a transfer is in the rare instance I go to the new school without a journal acceptance at GULC.

ToTransferOrNot
Posts: 1928
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:45 am

Re: Value in transferring w/out journal?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:33 am

megamanx wrote:We are still waiting on rankings but I'd estimate I am still in the top 5% (top 15 students or so). Our OCI is pretty weak though and most big firms do not go to my current school. In fact, I think maybe 20 or so students received offers from larger firms last year and the school certainly does't rank on the Top 50 schools for placement in biglaw.

GULC is the only school I applied to because I wanted to stay in the VA area with my wife. I already paid the seat deposit but I believe I still have a while to think about it.

How does massive transfer class size equate to a bad experience? That would probably be good to know before jumping in head first.


Your really, really should beg UVa to take a late application. Seriously.

Large transfer class size makes it really, really difficult to distinguish yourself at OCI, which seems to be fairly important for transfer students. Also, large class sizes in general make getting connections with professors difficult, which is important for things like clerkships and the like, if you see that in your future.

It's really a shame that you didn't apply to other places - you would have been competitive (H, maybe) CCNV, and all of them would have given you a better chance of landing a permanent job in DC. You should look into their application deadlines to see whether you can still app to any of them. I understand that you want to be near your wife, but taking the long view here is important.

Also, it really isn't uncommon for transfer students to not be on journals, but this feeds into the "large transfer class" note above: at GULC, it will make you stick out among the transfers (in a bad way) - even if fewer transfers have journals than don't have them.

megamanx
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Value in transferring w/out journal?

Postby megamanx » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:50 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
megamanx wrote:We are still waiting on rankings but I'd estimate I am still in the top 5% (top 15 students or so). Our OCI is pretty weak though and most big firms do not go to my current school. In fact, I think maybe 20 or so students received offers from larger firms last year and the school certainly does't rank on the Top 50 schools for placement in biglaw.

GULC is the only school I applied to because I wanted to stay in the VA area with my wife. I already paid the seat deposit but I believe I still have a while to think about it.

How does massive transfer class size equate to a bad experience? That would probably be good to know before jumping in head first.


Your really, really should beg UVa to take a late application. Seriously.

Large transfer class size makes it really, really difficult to distinguish yourself at OCI, which seems to be fairly important for transfer students. Also, large class sizes in general make getting connections with professors difficult, which is important for things like clerkships and the like, if you see that in your future.

It's really a shame that you didn't apply to other places - you would have been competitive (H, maybe) CCNV, and all of them would have given you a better chance of landing a permanent job in DC. You should look into their application deadlines to see whether you can still app to any of them. I understand that you want to be near your wife, but taking the long view here is important.

Also, it really isn't uncommon for transfer students to not be on journals, but this feeds into the "large transfer class" note above: at GULC, it will make you stick out among the transfers (in a bad way) - even if fewer transfers have journals than don't have them.


Hmm, transfer applications would be difficult now since my professor sent his letter directly to the school and never registered it with LSAC.

Aside from OCI though, wouldn't you be more competitive looking for post-grad work coming from GULC anyway, especially with the school's clinical program and status in the region?

09042014
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Value in transferring w/out journal?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:54 am

TTON how dare you belittle the skills of making sure someone double spaced their commas, removing the last comma, and interpreting some incoherent string of words that supposedly is a citation.

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bceagles182
Posts: 615
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:53 pm

Re: Value in transferring w/out journal?

Postby bceagles182 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:13 am

megamanx wrote:
kaiser wrote:Uh I think you have it backwards. If anything, having LR at your old school makes it so you are giving something up and leaving something behind. If you don't get LR, then what is tying you to the old school aside from money? If I had LR, I would be hesitant to transfer because, depending on your situation, LR might mean enough to weigh in favor of staying.

And employers at the new school wont care tha you made LR at the old one since the value of LR is participating in it and gaining the technical skills. Writing down "made LR at old school' is just words on a page with nearly no value.


Also I must have written the first comment sloppily so my bad. I wouldn't put that I was accepted at the old school on my resume. I'm just trying to figure out how how valuable a transfer is in the rare instance I go to the new school without a journal acceptance at GULC.



Every transfer resume that I've seen from career services at multiple schools has this line on it. I would argue that it makes your case more compelling if you are changing schools to access a different market, as you could point out that you gave up law review at your old school to relocate because you really want to be in the other market. Regardless though, unless you have to pull something else off your resume to fit it, there really isn't a reason not to include that line. (Yes I realize that's a double negative).

megamanx
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Value in transferring w/out journal?

Postby megamanx » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:18 am

bceagles182 wrote:
megamanx wrote:
kaiser wrote:Uh I think you have it backwards. If anything, having LR at your old school makes it so you are giving something up and leaving something behind. If you don't get LR, then what is tying you to the old school aside from money? If I had LR, I would be hesitant to transfer because, depending on your situation, LR might mean enough to weigh in favor of staying.

And employers at the new school wont care tha you made LR at the old one since the value of LR is participating in it and gaining the technical skills. Writing down "made LR at old school' is just words on a page with nearly no value.


Also I must have written the first comment sloppily so my bad. I wouldn't put that I was accepted at the old school on my resume. I'm just trying to figure out how how valuable a transfer is in the rare instance I go to the new school without a journal acceptance at GULC.



Every transfer resume that I've seen from career services at multiple schools has this line on it. I would argue that it makes your case more compelling if you are changing schools to access a different market, as you could point out that you gave up law review at your old school to relocate because you really want to be in the other market. Regardless though, unless you have to pull something else off your resume to fit it, there really isn't a reason not to include that line. (Yes I realize that's a double negative).


I wonder if that line would be just as effective on your resume if you gave up Law Review at your old school to not be on a journal at all at your new one. Also, my market doesn't really change since I live in the DC region regardless of which school I attend.




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