Top 5% at UIUC + LR + $ v Chicago/Columbia Forum

[Toughquestions]

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[BarbellDreams]

If you are 100% fine with staying in Chicago you are the very rare situation where I would say stay.

[uzpakalis]

Increase in penis size/length/girth

transfer

[jpSartre]

Increase in penis size/length/girth

tyvmft

[Z3RO]

Grats dude. If you like Chicago, stay. In my mind, that makes transfer to UChi stupid.

*edit*

I'm 0L

[NotoriousIIED]

I actually think you should go. $80k is not a ton compared to the $200k that some people might have to take out in loans. Is it at all possible to make Columbia's law review? Chicago's is probably out but, let's be honest, it's Chicago, who cares?

If you really want to be in Chicago, then I think it would be U of C or bust. In terms of Chicago Biglaw, I don't think Columbia gets you anything Illinois with your stats can't. Your academia interests are obviously another story. Did you even bother applying to Northwestern? I think you should leave for UChicago and flip a coin for Columbia.

If you applied to U of C first time around and they let you in with a 1/3rd scholarship, you would have taken it, no?

[mscarn23]

Columbia had their write-on a few weeks ago FYI, so no dice getting LR for next year. I think they mentioned something on their website about students being allowed on staff for 3rd year if they published a note, but I'm not 100% on that.

[CanadianWolf]

Apply & see what develops on all fronts. If accepted as a transfer student to Chicago or Columbia, then you should seriously consider making the move in light of your interests. Overall, Chicago seems to best match your interests & goals.

Unlike UCLA & Texas, for example, Illinois is overshadowed in its own backyard by Chicago & Northwestern. The lack of prestige is tangible in the job market.

[09042014]

Apply & see what develops on all fronts. If accepted as a transfer student to Chicago or Columbia, then you should seriously consider making the move in light of your interests. Overall, Chicago seems to best match your interests & goals.

Unlike UCLA & Texas, for example, Illinois is overshadowed in its own backyard by Chicago & Northwestern. The lack of prestige is tangible in the job market.

The big firms are at least interviewing at Illinois. And being top 5% is probably past damn near, if not, all of the chicago firms soft cut offs. I doubt his big law chances go up in a transfer, and they'd probably go down if he went to Columbia and still tried to go to Chicago for his SA.

And for clerkships, he's already got 1/2 years of amazing grades that are necessary for clerking. At Chicago he's a blank slate. He could do worse than he did and pwn himself. Also he's probably got some relationships with professors.

I'd only consider the Academic prospects if OP was definitely going to try for Academia.

[CanadianWolf]

Good points, but I still think that Chicago should be seriously considered. Finishing top 5% & law review after one's first year is not an assurance of future class rank--- I know from personal experience.
Chicago is a small, ultra-prestigious law school that places well deep into its class. OP can always note that he/she was top 5% & made law review at Illinois if a transfer is made; the same cannot be said if OP remains at Illinois & class rank suffers from heavy law review duties.
As an aside, it may be a mistake to assume that a top 5% ranking after the first year indicates superior abilities & work ethic when compared to classmates; it really means that that particular student caught on quicker & worked in a more productive fashion. Others catch on in the second & third years of law school.

Regardless, OP is in great shape whether at Illinois or Chicago, in my opinion.

[NotoriousIIED]

Curious what the posters on this board think about this:

I think, given that OP is top 5% + LR at UIUC, for Chicago BigLaw/clerkships he should stay unless he gets UChicago.

I'd say the same calculus is true for Notre Dame.

However, if OP was at IUB, if OP wanted Chicago Biglaw/clerkships, he should leave for UChicago and Northwestern, regardless of scholarship amounts.

[ToTransferOrNot]

For the C/O 2011, people were leaving under these circumstances (I left Wisconsin for Chicago, another transfer in my class left UIUC for Chicago). This year, I think it's probably not as pro-transfer. I mean, Mayer (if you think you want to do appellete lit, this is a pretty big deal) is still only hiring from Chicago, Northwestern, Harvard and Michigan (at least for their current summer class - not sure about next year); but I think the other big Chicago firms are loosening up a bit.

One thing to flag: for fuck's sake, apply to HYS. You have a good shot at Harvard.

Anyway, a few things I want to point out:

First, your clerkship interest: only two transfers in my class got clerkships (one district, one CoA, both of them were K&E scholars at Chicago after transfering). Getting a clerkship as a transfer is rough - particularly as most of the CoA moves off the hiring plan, which forces earlier applications at a time when you may not even have all of your grades back. Losing your 1L professor relationships is problematic, there.

Second, for academia: I've given some - but not too much - thought to this. I think that if I eventually try to pursue academia, I will be very glad that I transfered - notwithstanding the lack of law review here. But I was on a secondary journal; you've missed the write-on boat entirely at this point. That could actually be a good thing, though; it would allow you to throw your hat into the ring for topic access. One transfer got on via topic access in my class, and one transfer got on that way in the C/O 2010 (also ended up graduating #1 in her class). Tough odds, but it can be done - and, more importantly, it will force you to write, which is necessary for both the clerkship process and any academic desires.

Third: Getting the silly stuff (moving/leaving friends) out of the calculus. This is a career-long decision, and factoring things like that into it is illogical.

Fourth: The incrased debt is a pretty big deal. I went from expecting $60-80k to expecting $168k because of my move. But I was not debt averse, because even as top 1% at Wisconsin, there was the very real risk of getting no big firm job in the C/O 2011's OCI. I'm not sure that you are in the same boat.

Fifth: Keep in mind that your market destination is basically going to be set in stone by September. It is true that people change markets via 3L OCI or mailings, but it isn't something you should rely on.

Let me know if I can help in any other way.

[ndirish2010]

Tough decision. I would lean towards staying. You should be able to get a district court clerkship if you keep your grades next year, and there won't be any Chicago firms (maybe Mayer) out of reach with those numbers. If you want corporate, you should have a decent shot at Kirkland. There are obviously a lot of pros to transferring, but I personally wouldn't leave unless it was for HYS.

[icedison]

OP

Did UIUC ask you to pay $250 for letter of good standing?