T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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Transfer to Y/H/S?

Transfer to Y/H/S if you can.
15
58%
Stay put and do your best at GULC's OCI
11
42%
 
Total votes: 26

lawschoolisfun
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T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby lawschoolisfun » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:46 am

Hi colleagues. I made a new account so that I am not instantly outed, but I wanted to get your advice on whether or not I should transfer to Y/H/S from GULC.

I may be one of the more unique cases, because if i do transfer, this will be my second time transferring =X I went to a T1 for my 1L and transferred to GUCL. I was PT during my 1L, and continued in the PT program at GULC as a 2nd year evening student. I was top 5% at my T1, and although I have not received all of my grades from GULC, I am hopefully going to be in the top 10% to 5% at GULC. From transferapps I noticed that top 10-5% gave a fighting chance at Y/H/S. I was unable to compete for GULC's write-on competition when I transferred and so I am not on LR or any secondary journal. However, earlier this year I did make it on our school's Alternative Dispute Resolution team through an intra-school competition. I did not do the HLS write-on competition, so making LR at HLS is not an option.

As an incoming 3rd year student at GULC, they will allow me to transfer to the FT program and finish my legal studies in 1 1/2 more years (as opposed to 2 more years). However, if I transferred to YHS, I would still have two full years left (because all my units will not xfer). So that is roughly $30k or so if you factor in tuition + cost of living. I do not have any scholly's at GULC, and am not sure if they will offer me any aid.

Now as to why I want to transfer: My short term goals are to work at a big law firm in CA. It is no secret that OCI at GULC has not been as amazing as past years, however, from what I have been able to gather my grades should be high enough to get me jobs at some southern California big law firms. I ideally want to work at Gibson Dunn, and the avg gpa of students who received offers from GD is around 3.5 (and I might finish this semester with a 3.7-3.8 gpa). After practicing for a while, I may decide to continue practicing in big law, start my own firm, or even work / become and adjunct professor/full time professor (as I think that teaching is one of the most rewarding professions/experiences in life). Although academia is an ambition of mine, I am not 100% set on it, and want to play out my life and see where it takes me. My family and friends all tell me to try to transfer, because they hear the name "Harvard" and their eyes light up, but they don't understand the implications of a decision like this. Honestly, I would LOVE to go to YHS, it would be a dream come true for me (not that being at GULC isn't already). A part of me is telling me to stay and stop being a prestige whore, but I am almost certain that having a YHS diploma will open doors for me in the future (especially if I go in to private practice, I feel like having HLS behind you can really help get clients and I will meet so many people who will be very successful in their future). As it stands I could probably get a big law job to my liking in soCal and possibly even with Gibson Dunn, if I stay at GULC. However, if I wonder if my chances will increase/decrease/stay the same if I transfer to HLS and want to work at GD? On one hand, I will be the top of my class at GULC and will stand out at OCI. On the other hand, the recruiters who come to HLS may realize that top 5% at GULC is an accomplishment in and of itself and may give me an offer, but then again I may just be that "transfer" kid at HLS and be considered middle of the pack. What are your thoughts on this? The 30k or so extra money (though a big deal) is something I am willing to come to terms with if I go to YHS.

I could write forever, but am going to cut it here so that people don't get scared of this post. I hope those of you with an intimate knowledge of YHS's OCI can give me some advice on whether it would be worthwhile for me to xfer. One argument is that I would be transferring and spending the extra money all to get the same job. And the other argument is that I would graduate from YHS! What are your thoughts on whether I should transfer or not?
Last edited by lawschoolisfun on Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:16 am

I want you to transfer to be the first double transfer student.

If the firms you want are going to GULC OCI, you will be in an amazing position. They are coming to hire people, and if they aren't going to hire top 5% they aren't going to hire you as an HLS transfer.

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KMaine
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby KMaine » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:28 am

Honestly, I think the smart move, job-wise is to stay. The double transfer may even be a little tough to explain to recruiters. As to your aspirations to academia, Harvard may help, and you clearly want to go there (also, I know you are not on a journal, but you should really try to publish something). Transferring is unlikely to hurt you in terms of job prospects. I say go for it if you want, but if I were you, I would stay.

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robotclubmember
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby robotclubmember » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:58 pm

Transfer to HYS requires that your pre-LS stats were at least in range to give you a chance at acceptance if you applied straight from ugrad. Like, obviously 1L grades matter more than LSAT and GPA, and I'm sure there are exceptions but they expressly state that your stats should have been worthy of consideration if you applied direct to the school before attending any other law school. Tell us about your stats before law school? If you started at Tier 1 but not T14, then that tells me you may not have the fighting chance you claim you do, based on those stats.

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beach_terror
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby beach_terror » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:01 pm

robotclubmember wrote:Transfer to HYS requires that your pre-LS stats were at least in range to give you a chance at acceptance if you applied straight from ugrad. Like, obviously 1L grades matter more than LSAT and GPA, and I'm sure there are exceptions but they expressly state that your stats should have been worthy of consideration if you applied direct to the school before attending any other law school. Tell us about your stats before law school?

Hey 0L, you're not allowed to give advice. Read the stickies. Jesus christ, go somewhere else to up your post count.

Total Litigator
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby Total Litigator » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:15 pm

beach_terror wrote:
robotclubmember wrote:Transfer to HYS requires that your pre-LS stats were at least in range to give you a chance at acceptance if you applied straight from ugrad. Like, obviously 1L grades matter more than LSAT and GPA, and I'm sure there are exceptions but they expressly state that your stats should have been worthy of consideration if you applied direct to the school before attending any other law school. Tell us about your stats before law school?

Hey 0L, you're not allowed to give advice. Read the stickies. Jesus christ, go somewhere else to up your post count.


Lolz, yeah what this really means has been explained thouroughly by TLS Harvard transfers (I'm too lazy to find the thread and cite to it, but see Van Winkle). Please don't post in forums when you know nothing about what you're talking about except for what you've seen on a website somewhere (Admittedly I don't have personal experience with this, but Van Winkle is a reputable source on the subject). OP, the real rule is that you better be extraordinary to be able to transfer to Harvard. Top 10% alone will not do it, and I really doubt top 5% alone will do it either, unless your softs are at least somewhat outstanding. I imagine this is more true for Yale and less true for Standford. However, I'm sure when you get to a certain point, (top 1-2% at a T14 maybe?) your softs don't actually matter as much.


That being said, Harvard doesn't take many students from T2's (you can probably count 'em on one hand) and the fact that you originally started at a T2 might actually hurt your chances. Who knows.

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robotclubmember
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby robotclubmember » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:37 pm

Total Litigator wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
robotclubmember wrote:Transfer to HYS requires that your pre-LS stats were at least in range to give you a chance at acceptance if you applied straight from ugrad. Like, obviously 1L grades matter more than LSAT and GPA, and I'm sure there are exceptions but they expressly state that your stats should have been worthy of consideration if you applied direct to the school before attending any other law school. Tell us about your stats before law school?

Hey 0L, you're not allowed to give advice. Read the stickies. Jesus christ, go somewhere else to up your post count.


Lolz, yeah what this really means has been explained thouroughly by TLS Harvard transfers (I'm too lazy to find the thread and cite to it, but see Van Winkle). Please don't post in forums when you know nothing about what you're talking about except for what you've seen on a website somewhere (Admittedly I don't have personal experience with this, but Van Winkle is a reputable source on the subject). OP, the real rule is that you better be extraordinary to be able to transfer to Harvard. Top 10% alone will not do it, and I really doubt top 5% alone will do it either, unless your softs are at least somewhat outstanding. I imagine this is more true for Yale and less true for Standford. However, I'm sure when you get to a certain point, (top 1-2% at a T14 maybe?) your softs don't actually matter as much.


That being said, Harvard doesn't take many students from T2's (you can probably count 'em on one hand) and the fact that you originally started at a T2 might actually hurt your chances. Who knows.


He started at T1.

How would a 1L know more than an 0L about the topic, if neither had attempted to do it? Have you personally tried to transfer to HYS? If yes, cool but you don't have to be a dick. If no, then what do you know that I don't? I'm just sayin' what I been told.

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beach_terror
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby beach_terror » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:41 pm

robotclubmember wrote:He started at T1.

How would a 1L know more than an 0L about the topic, if neither had attempted to do it? Have you personally tried to transfer to HYS? If yes, cool but you don't have to be a dick. If no, then what do you know that I don't? I'm just sayin' what I been told.

LOL READ THE STICKIES, I DON'T MAKE THE RULES, I JUST ENFORCE THEM WHEN I FEEL LIKE BEING A DOUCHEBAG, K?

keg411
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby keg411 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:31 pm

beach_terror wrote:
robotclubmember wrote:He started at T1.

How would a 1L know more than an 0L about the topic, if neither had attempted to do it? Have you personally tried to transfer to HYS? If yes, cool but you don't have to be a dick. If no, then what do you know that I don't? I'm just sayin' what I been told.

LOL READ THE STICKIES, I DON'T MAKE THE RULES, I JUST ENFORCE THEM WHEN I FEEL LIKE BEING A DOUCHEBAG, K?


Plus that 1L's are actually researching and applying for transfer RIGHT NOW. 0L's shouldn't even be thinking about transfers.

To the OP - I've never heard of that type of transfer, but I suppose it's worth sending the apps if it's something you want to do. Worst case scenario, you get rejected... but I think you have so many opportunities from the top of the class at GULC, even as a PT transfer, that it may not be worth it. If you want BigLaw, it's certainly within your reach (and continuing high grades helps) and if you want Gov't/PI, GULC has a strong LRAP.

Total Litigator
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby Total Litigator » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:09 pm

robotclubmember wrote:
Total Litigator wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
robotclubmember wrote:Transfer to HYS requires that your pre-LS stats were at least in range to give you a chance at acceptance if you applied straight from ugrad. Like, obviously 1L grades matter more than LSAT and GPA, and I'm sure there are exceptions but they expressly state that your stats should have been worthy of consideration if you applied direct to the school before attending any other law school. Tell us about your stats before law school?

Hey 0L, you're not allowed to give advice. Read the stickies. Jesus christ, go somewhere else to up your post count.


Lolz, yeah what this really means has been explained thouroughly by TLS Harvard transfers (I'm too lazy to find the thread and cite to it, but see Van Winkle). Please don't post in forums when you know nothing about what you're talking about except for what you've seen on a website somewhere (Admittedly I don't have personal experience with this, but Van Winkle is a reputable source on the subject). OP, the real rule is that you better be extraordinary to be able to transfer to Harvard. Top 10% alone will not do it, and I really doubt top 5% alone will do it either, unless your softs are at least somewhat outstanding. I imagine this is more true for Yale and less true for Standford. However, I'm sure when you get to a certain point, (top 1-2% at a T14 maybe?) your softs don't actually matter as much.


That being said, Harvard doesn't take many students from T2's (you can probably count 'em on one hand) and the fact that you originally started at a T2 might actually hurt your chances. Who knows.


He started at T1.

How would a 1L know more than an 0L about the topic, if neither had attempted to do it? Have you personally tried to transfer to HYS? If yes, cool but you don't have to be a dick. If no, then what do you know that I don't? I'm just sayin' what I been told.


Well I'm a rising 3L and a transfer student (although not to Harvard). Anything I know is from reading more transfer threads on TLS / posts on yahoo transfer apps the summer after my 1L than could ever be healthy. I think what came off as wrong with your post is that you were very matter of fact about something you apparently don't know a whole lot about. That being said, you knew Harvard's 'rule' featured on their website, so it wasn't a total conjecture on your part. However, if you think about what you said, the fallacy appears: People who transfer into Harvard just forgot to apply to Harvard the first time around? Basically their 'rule' means that, although your law school admission numbers can't be less than great (i.e. lower T2 grads will have a very hard time, even # 1's); even though your class rank is amazing, your softs must be "Harvard worthy." For example, the #2 student at my 1L school in 50's to 60's didn't make the cut for Harvard, but i'm sure he would have had a fighting chance if it wasn't for the fact that his softs were incredibly bland. Contrast this with Columbia where a #2 rank at a 50 to 60 ranked school virtually guarantees you a spot in their transfer class.

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robotclubmember
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby robotclubmember » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:13 pm

Understood, and I won't post in this forum again. But, what I was really doing was asking OP to provide a piece of material information that he had not provided and no one else had requested. I wasn't swinging my dick around and claiming to know it all. I wasn't very matter of fact at all. I just asked a question that would help anyone looking at this answer OP's question.

robotclubmember wrote:Tell us about your stats before law school?


I still don't see what the big deal is but hey, this is the internet.

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vanwinkle
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:32 pm

lawschoolisfun wrote:On the other hand, the recruiters who come to HLS may realize that top 5% at GULC is an accomplishment in and of itself and may give me an offer, but then again I may just be that "transfer" kid at HLS and be considered middle of the pack.

There are exceptions, but the majority of firms seem to look at HLS transfers as well above the "middle of the pack". It's extremely difficult to transfer to HLS, and transferring in means that you were really, really good your first year of law school, no matter where you went. (Plus, since HLS doesn't have grades, being able to show employers a transcript with real grades, and really good ones at that, can be a boost.)

I think that if you're not on LR, transferring from T14 to HLS makes sense. You're getting a huge prestige bump and an upgraded diploma that will last you the next 30 years. Being on LR at a T14 can trump that, but if you don't have LR to leave behind, it makes the decision much easier. IMO from your position it would be very worth it to transfer, if you can get in.

If you can double-transfer I would be truly impressed. That would just be amazing, in my opinion. Good luck.

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vanwinkle
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 pm

Total Litigator wrote:Lolz, yeah what this really means has been explained thouroughly by TLS Harvard transfers (I'm too lazy to find the thread and cite to it, but see Van Winkle). Please don't post in forums when you know nothing about what you're talking about except for what you've seen on a website somewhere (Admittedly I don't have personal experience with this, but Van Winkle is a reputable source on the subject). OP, the real rule is that you better be extraordinary to be able to transfer to Harvard. Top 10% alone will not do it, and I really doubt top 5% alone will do it either, unless your softs are at least somewhat outstanding. I imagine this is more true for Yale and less true for Standford. However, I'm sure when you get to a certain point, (top 1-2% at a T14 maybe?) your softs don't actually matter as much.

:?

I was merely "top 10%" at a T14 and I did it. Granted, I did have "outstanding" softs, but I think it's certainly possible. In fact, I'd bet it happens fairly regularly that a couple people a year transfer to HLS from outside the top 5% at a T14. It's really those folks, top 10% but not top 5%, who make the most sense as transfers; those in the top 5% at a T14 probably made LR and are better off staying.

I agree you need to be extraordinary to transfer to Harvard, but top 10% at T14 is not exactly ordinary.

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Lawquacious
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby Lawquacious » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:48 pm

Yes, I think it is worth it, if you can get into any of those schools.

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armenazo
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Re: T14 Transfer to Y/H/S worth it in my case?

Postby armenazo » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:40 pm

This is giving me ideas:

Year 1: Cooley --> Year 2: TTT --> Year 3: TT --> Year 4: T1 --> Year 5: T14 --> Year 6: HYS

Thoughts TLS?

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