Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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johndhi
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby johndhi » Wed May 25, 2011 11:35 am

iheartlaw wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't think that transferring is a horrible idea? Like OP, I go to a school at the bottom of the T14, and OCI at my school can be unpredictable. If you are top 5% you are undoubtedly going to get callbacks/offers, but like OP said, it may not be at the firm you want. Wachtell does not interview at my school, but there are several other great firms besides Wachtell that don't interview at my school either. If OP went to HLS, he/she will never wonder what if, and the name of your school will always be with you. I think you should do it if you want OP, also I think you are spot-on with asking recruiting personnel from the firms you want to be a part of, whether it would be advisable to transfer... (I have a feeling they will tell you it won't matter, but if they don't come to your school's OCI, then you should be skeptical of their advice).

Does anyone here know if it matters where your JD is from when the partners consider you as a partner down the road? Do you think it would help by maybe a year or so, if you went to HLS instead of say Cornell? Or it simply based on your performance as an attorney within the firm? (i'm sure a large portion is based on the quality of your work as an attorney with the firm, but I wonder if the school matters??). Even if you don't decide to stick around till partner, if you start your own firm, it can't hurt to have a JD from HLS hanging on the wall when potential clients come in.

Another thought I have, and sorry if it comes across scattered: If you are top of your class at DNCG do you think you would have a better shot at a firm like say.... Sullivan Cromwell staying put, or transferring to HLS (where you may be seen as an inferior candidate because you "transferred" amongst your colleagues)? I know they will see that you were top 5% at DNCG, and that may be good enough in and of itself to get the job even if you transfer, but I can imagine some employers being like hmmm the transfer kid, let's just stick with the ones who were at HLS and did well. Whereas had OP stayed at his/her original school he would have been a top candidate among his colleagues. Thoughts?


Much of this is what I'm thinking. On the one hand, I really do like my school, but on the other, I don't like it enough to blind myself to the potential upside of going to another school. It's a professional school and the reason I'm doing it is to create job opportunities for myself; if one does it better, I feel like I should go there. I think what this thread has done, however, is told me that the value of access to the top schools' OCI and clerkship chances isn't as much as I originally thought. Compared with how much more money it will cost to go there, maybe transferring is the wrong decision.

The "start your own firm" prestige thing has sort of been ringing around in my head, too. But I'd think an extra $100,000 is probably worth more in starting one's own firm! I could see some elitism going on within promotion decisions, but I have to say, anyplace that does that is no place I want to work - in fact it seems borderline illegal under the equal employment opportunity laws.

There are a couple other factors I'm thinking about, too: one might imagine the "classroom environment" or "academic stimulation" is more favorable at some of the top schools. It seems there are a lot of things to consider in transferring - I am willing to deal with some of the necessary evils (moving, finding new friends, forming bonds with new professors) but don't want to pay more if I am not getting more. I'll wait and see what people who have done this say and talk to some firms.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Wed May 25, 2011 11:39 am

wait so do you have a scholarship at your current t14? If you do I would vote for stay, but if you're paying sticker, it might actually be better to transfer as you'd be considered for grant aid (based on financial need) at all of HYS.

xcountryjunkie
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby xcountryjunkie » Wed May 25, 2011 11:48 am

Generally speaking, barring a strong personal dislike for your current law school, I see no reason to transfer. T14 Law Rev will get you far.

Also, can we assume that you're not at UT? Even then, I'd likely vote against the transfer, but it would at least be a conversation.

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sanetruth
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby sanetruth » Wed May 25, 2011 12:34 pm

Not saying I necessarily agree with this, but i'm shocked that no one has said 'If you're at GULC then most certainly transfer up'

bdubs
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby bdubs » Wed May 25, 2011 12:39 pm

Does anyone think that someone who receives little to no scholarship money at a lower T14 and who is not super wealthy would benefit from the need based aid at HYS?

I can see a situation where OP pays less to attend HYS than they pay by staying at their lower T14.

I'm also with the posters above who have pointed out that the name on your degree lasts far longer than the importance of grades or the relationships you may have developed with professors during 1L.

You are giving up something substantial by not being on LR, but you would still have a shot if you were accepted to Yale.

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20121109
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby 20121109 » Wed May 25, 2011 3:24 pm

bjsesq wrote:
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:Absolutely talk to Vanwinkle about this. He transferred from a T14 to HLS so he can give you some advice.


Vanwinkle goes to Harvard?




























Srsly?


Absolutely. I see him around campus quite often. We hang out together too.

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bjsesq
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby bjsesq » Wed May 25, 2011 3:25 pm

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:Absolutely. I see him around campus quite often. We hang out together too.


Wow. I hadn't heard that. You'd think he'd talk about it once in a while. I mean, that's a big deal.

09042014
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby 09042014 » Wed May 25, 2011 3:26 pm

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:Absolutely talk to Vanwinkle about this. He transferred from a T14 to HLS so he can give you some advice.


Vanwinkle goes to Harvard?




























Srsly?


Absolutely. I see him around campus quite often. We hang out together too.


Are you sure? I think we would have heard about it.

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20121109
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby 20121109 » Wed May 25, 2011 3:33 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Are you sure? I think we would have heard about it.


I loled.

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bjsesq
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby bjsesq » Wed May 25, 2011 3:34 pm

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Are you sure? I think we would have heard about it.


I loled.


How are you gonna give that one to him? Fuck.

hopefullaw27
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby hopefullaw27 » Fri May 27, 2011 11:05 pm

to OP, i'm top 5% at CCN and thinking about putting in apps to HY. I'm not set on going, but I figured there's no harm in applying and making the decision to go if and when i get in...

johndhi
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby johndhi » Sat May 28, 2011 12:29 pm

hopefullaw27 wrote:to OP, i'm top 5% at CCN and thinking about putting in apps to HY. I'm not set on going, but I figured there's no harm in applying and making the decision to go if and when i get in...


Cool, that is my plan as well. I've tried to contact vanwinkle for advice but he seems to be MIA. I think I'd probably do Y if I could, but H would be a tougher decision.

concurrent fork
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby concurrent fork » Sat May 28, 2011 12:40 pm

hopefullaw27 wrote:to OP, i'm top 5% at CCN and thinking about putting in apps to HY. I'm not set on going, but I figured there's no harm in applying and making the decision to go if and when i get in...

Why? Unless you need to relocate for personal reasons, this doesn't make much sense.

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Moxie
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby Moxie » Sat May 28, 2011 12:47 pm

sanetruth wrote:Not saying I necessarily agree with this, but i'm shocked that no one has said 'If you're at GULC then most certainly transfer up'


Because top 5% at GULC is going to be competitive for almost every firm in the country. There is almost nothing that would be available from HYS that they wouldn't get with GULC (except maybe SC clerk, Wachtell, etc.)

CanadianWolf
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat May 28, 2011 12:49 pm

OP: For more interesting responses, let readers believe that your present Top 14 law school is Texas--even though we know that it's Georgetown.

johndhi
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby johndhi » Sat May 28, 2011 2:24 pm

Moxie wrote:Because top 5% at GULC is going to be competitive for almost every firm in the country. There is almost nothing that would be available from HYS that they wouldn't get with GULC (except maybe SC clerk, Wachtell, etc.)


So there's no reason to do it but for these really awesome things that are great reasons to do it? I think the ability to take a shot at an ultra-prestigious clerkship sounds awesome; even if it's unlikely it is a great motivator. My take was that such an opportunity already exists at UT and transferring doesn't create it. Are you suggesting otherwise?

plum
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby plum » Sat May 28, 2011 2:37 pm

i think OP should wait until all his grades are in. out of 8 classes, acing 4 is still only 50%. although i do wish him the best of luck.

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Moxie
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby Moxie » Sat May 28, 2011 2:47 pm

johndhi wrote:
Moxie wrote:Because top 5% at GULC is going to be competitive for almost every firm in the country. There is almost nothing that would be available from HYS that they wouldn't get with GULC (except maybe SC clerk, Wachtell, etc.)


So there's no reason to do it but for these really awesome things that are great reasons to do it? I think the ability to take a shot at an ultra-prestigious clerkship sounds awesome; even if it's unlikely it is a great motivator. My take was that such an opportunity already exists at UT and transferring doesn't create it. Are you suggesting otherwise?


No, but I'm suggesting the inconvenience and increased financial cost can often outweigh the benefits provided. And if you're competitive enough to transfer to Yale or Stanford your chance at those ultra-prestigious opportunities aren't necessarily out of reach (hence why I said "maybe")

Edit to say - for clerkship apps, you need great recommendations, and leaving your 1L school can make it more difficult to build relationships with faculty to help you gain an amazing DC or COA clerkship. Not that they're aren't benefits to transferring, but if you're so deadset on ultra-prestigious clerkships and firms, why not focus all your energy on getting your grades even higher? The top few students at GULC are definitely going to have a shot at W&C, SCOTUS, etc.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 28, 2011 3:12 pm

Reasons transferring takes sense:

1) You're REALLY REALLY dedicated to PI. The HLS LIPP is awesome, and the school can open doors all over the place, even over the lower T14 schools.

2) You miss out on LR. You're leaving a lot less behind if you miss out on LR. HLS > T14, generally, especially if you're paying close to sticker either way. However (especially if you want awesome clerkships), T14 + LR > HLS in a lot of cases.

You won't really know the answer to #2 before the transfer deadline, so if you want to transfer you should get your apps/LORs ready and make the decision when/if you get accepted.

hopefullaw27
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby hopefullaw27 » Sat May 28, 2011 8:51 pm

concurrent fork wrote:
hopefullaw27 wrote:to OP, i'm top 5% at CCN and thinking about putting in apps to HY. I'm not set on going, but I figured there's no harm in applying and making the decision to go if and when i get in...

Why? Unless you need to relocate for personal reasons, this doesn't make much sense.


I think the counter-point is, why not? I don't have anything to lose by applying. Also, a way to look at it is, if I were making the choice between H,Y, CCN, prior to entering law school it'd be a no-brainer. Not much has changed since then.

plum
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby plum » Sat May 28, 2011 10:36 pm

hopefullaw27 wrote:I think the counter-point is, why not? I don't have anything to lose by applying. Also, a way to look at it is, if I were making the choice between H,Y, CCN, prior to entering law school it'd be a no-brainer. Not much has changed since then.

uhh...other than a full year of law school, including the connections/relationships you've made and trying out for journals etc., and the GPA you've accumulated. all that goes away. not saying you shouldn't transfer, but it's def not the same situation as before you entered, and thinking of it in those terms can mislead you into making a bad decision.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun May 29, 2011 2:22 am

plum wrote:
hopefullaw27 wrote:I think the counter-point is, why not? I don't have anything to lose by applying. Also, a way to look at it is, if I were making the choice between H,Y, CCN, prior to entering law school it'd be a no-brainer. Not much has changed since then.

uhh...other than a full year of law school, including the connections/relationships you've made and trying out for journals etc., and the GPA you've accumulated. all that goes away. not saying you shouldn't transfer, but it's def not the same situation as before you entered, and thinking of it in those terms can mislead you into making a bad decision.

This is credited. Passing up an unknown at CCN for H/Y, as a 0L, is understandable. On the other hand, giving up an established top 5% position at CCN for H/Y is idiotic. The only way it makes any sense at all is if you've already done the HLR write-on and gotten accepted before you have to accept at HLS. But why put that much effort in?

hopefullaw27
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby hopefullaw27 » Sun May 29, 2011 8:57 am

Sure, but again, I don't see any downside in applying. Therefore, if I were to get in, I can make an informed decision (at that point I'd like to think I'd know if I made LR at my current school). Also, all of those factors mentioned by Plum are ones that I will weigh. To be sure, the decision to transfer to H would be a lot more difficult to make than Y because of the inability to write-on to their LR.

Anyways, my main point is: why not apply in the first instance and decide later?

bigben
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby bigben » Sun May 29, 2011 9:16 am

It seems that out of all the T14 people that could do this, very very few do it. That should tell you something.

OldManHunger
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Re: Transferring within T-14 to HLS?

Postby OldManHunger » Sun May 29, 2011 10:12 am

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Last edited by OldManHunger on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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