UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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gobulls11
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UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby gobulls11 » Wed May 11, 2011 4:56 pm

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Last edited by gobulls11 on Thu May 12, 2011 1:05 am, edited 3 times in total.

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kwais
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby kwais » Wed May 11, 2011 5:00 pm

do you mind sharing what you don't like at UChi/what you think would be different at CLS/Boalt?

stylishlaw
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby stylishlaw » Wed May 11, 2011 5:01 pm

I would imagine your chances of a successful transfer will depend more on the reason you want to transfer than your actual numbers. Make sure you have a good reason and clearly lay everything out in your application. That said, your chances are OK.

gobulls11
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby gobulls11 » Wed May 11, 2011 5:08 pm

Q: What I think would be different at CLS/boalt...

A: Before i trash UC, let me say that the professors + facilities here are amazing and my life wouldn't end if i had to stay here another 2 years. But, 1. i want a bigger class size, mix in with crowd 2. winter weather = brutal 3. i'm just not happy and want to try a new place, even at cost of scholarship $. i do like learning law though.
Last edited by gobulls11 on Thu May 12, 2011 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Wholigan
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby Wholigan » Wed May 11, 2011 5:14 pm

I wouldn't put # 2, 3, or 4 on your applications, (except for the part about loving your studies) even if they are important to you. What exactly does "self-selected" mean in this context? I honestly don't understand. That people identified themselves as horrible people and additionally identified UC as a place where horrible people can flouish and thus flocked there??

stylishlaw
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby stylishlaw » Wed May 11, 2011 5:19 pm

Also I forgot to add, in the essay you should not talk about any negative qualities of your experience so far. Write a specifically tailored essay to each school highlighting your reasons for wanting to attend there.

gobulls11
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby gobulls11 » Wed May 11, 2011 5:27 pm

ha, no i obviously wouldn't put that on my app. i can think of many good reasons to transfer to boalt

i guess horrible people is too strong. more like people i cant ever see myself working with. like in one class there's a kid who trolls the class discussion board, answering kids' online questions intended for professor rudely. many more stories like that. it's not the end of the world and i'm sure i have annoying habits too - just would prefer to get away if i could.

thanks for your input, i checked the CLS transfer site where it said people are usually top 5% of their class and was disappointed.

tycho_brahe
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby tycho_brahe » Wed May 11, 2011 5:31 pm

gobulls11 wrote:i guess horrible people is too strong. more like people i cant ever see myself working with. like in one class there's a kid who trolls the class discussion board, answering kids' online questions intended for professor rudely. many more stories like that. it's not the end of the world and i'm sure i have annoying habits too - just would prefer to get away if i could.


that sounds like every law school. the type self-selects into the profession in general.

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koalatriste
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby koalatriste » Wed May 11, 2011 7:59 pm

tycho_brahe wrote:
gobulls11 wrote:i guess horrible people is too strong. more like people i cant ever see myself working with. like in one class there's a kid who trolls the class discussion board, answering kids' online questions intended for professor rudely. many more stories like that. it's not the end of the world and i'm sure i have annoying habits too - just would prefer to get away if i could.


that sounds like every law school. the type self-selects into the profession in general.


+1000.

here at Cornell, we have a gigantic asshole gunner (yeah, i know you read these boards too, but i could care less) in my section who typed out answers in GIGANTIC/OBNOXIOUS font to EVERY single question that was asked in class (so that everyone around him could see that he knew the answer). this kid also kept a "record" (and shared it with everyone) of his correct in-class iclicker question responses for Civil Procedure. no. one. cares.

another member of my section made an online video (one of those text-to-video things) reenacting a cold call where one student didn't know the four elements of negligence after we had been talking about negligence for like a month. he sent it to the whole section and the professor (accidentally. love.) with the intent to malign the student.

unfortunately, i think law school attracts these types of vapid people, but I can understand the desire to leave a Cornell/Chicago - i.e. small schools that are relatively (certainly more so in Cornell's case) insular and notoriously nasty. i wouldn't hope that Columbia is better in terms of student population, BUT at least it affords an opportunity to have a social life outside of the law school. maybe i'll see you there in August!

as a side note, thanks for helping me cross Chicago off of my list.

Renzo
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby Renzo » Wed May 11, 2011 8:17 pm

Wholigan wrote:That people identified themselves as horrible people and additionally identified UC as a place where horrible people can flouish and thus flocked there??


This was exactly my impression of UChi when I visited, FWIW.

USAIRS
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby USAIRS » Wed May 11, 2011 8:32 pm

I guarantee you I hated people in my class 100x when I went there more than you do now. I read a book recently where the author said that a wiser student told him that he'd think 90% of people in law school were just terrible, and find that ten percent were cool. That was true in his case, and it was not a top 25 school, I think. Chicago's small size and the fact that it encourages serious and vehement discourse (historically) do seem to amplify the annoying personalities of a few people. That being said, calm the heck down, take a deep breath, don't do anything drastic. 1L year is meant to suck.

1. You won't be around campus much next year and certainly third year, and you get to choose your classes and lectures. It should be a lot better.

2. You'll have a lot more free time to actually go see bulls, cubs or white sox, or whatever next year. 2nd and third year can be a lot of fun with all that free time you have.

3. No one will be forcing you to hang out with the gunners next year, or even with law students. I lived at the international house, met a bunch of grad students and international people, and just had a blast. 1L year was horrible. Many people I wish dead and still wish ill from 1L. Your next two years don't have to be anything like that.

4. I knew of maybe 2 people who transferred to columbia, not from my class. Yeah, you could probably do it, possibly Berkeley. Being a transfer student doesn't seem that great. You'll have the rest of your life to live and work in California. Getting a job in NY is easy enough. I'd view the next two years as a sweet vacation and rest on on your good 1L grades. Just get through this quarter, and you'll be cool.

stylishlaw
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby stylishlaw » Wed May 11, 2011 8:36 pm

I find this thread interesting. Do you guys think this is more because of the type of applicants that the admissions office admits or because of the people who end up wanting to go there over their other options?

USAIRS
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby USAIRS » Wed May 11, 2011 8:50 pm

stylishlaw wrote:I find this thread interesting. Do you guys think this is more because of the type of applicants that the admissions office admits or because of the people who end up wanting to go there over their other options?


Like I said, it seems inherent to any law school. Chicago is generally intense, so I think people may let it get to them more than average. At any school, there are a few people who can basically ruin it for everyone. Basically, you know ten percent and like them, you know the really high profile annoying people, who are another 10%. The other 80 percent you don't really get to know, which is a shame, because they are actually alright. The annoying 10% make themselves seem like they are 80% of the class because they make themselves the center of attention like 90% of the time.

Let me put it this way. If we were in law school, any lawschool - not just Chicago, I could already tell that I'd find one or two people who posted in this thread annoying as hell - for example the one who automatically wrote chicago off. That person would probably think the same thing about me. There are 8 people who are present in this thread either by posting or just reading who I'll never get to know, but are probably cool.

HyeMart
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby HyeMart » Wed May 11, 2011 8:55 pm

your use of percentages fooled me into believing your science

gobulls11
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby gobulls11 » Wed May 11, 2011 8:59 pm

.
Last edited by gobulls11 on Thu May 12, 2011 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dresden doll
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby dresden doll » Wed May 11, 2011 9:01 pm

Huh, I must be one of the few people around here who thinks my classmates are pretty great.

Your chances at cls and boalt are decent. The 5 percent metric applies to transfers from lower t1 and below.

USAIRS
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby USAIRS » Wed May 11, 2011 9:04 pm

gobulls11 wrote:I think it's both self selecting and Chicago brings it out. People I know applied to T6, minus chicago. Also, there's a lot of nonsense floating around about how chicago is the place vigorous academic debate. I'm fine with that in my lunch talk between kirkland partner and a professor - but nonstop in class?. why can't you save it for the final?

my friends say the same thing: calm down, 2L will be better etc... but I keep thinking about how i turned down boalt + columbia to come here and that my classmates will represent to future clients + employers - kind of scary at this point.

koalatriste, that story about your gunner is too funny. I feel like the constant small things people do are way more sinister though. Small enough to brush off/can never explain it to anyone else bc they'll think i'm crazy nitpicky, but it just happens so often. I swear i'm not a spiteful person - i love undergrad, my parents, my nonchicago friends, my girlfriend, my dog - but this place just brings out the worst and i don't think it's the same at peer schools


Listen to your friends. They are cool people. The annoying people are given much more importance in your mind than they are entitled. 90% of your classmates are really worthwhile, and most of the other 10% actually aren't that bad after you get past the stress of 1L. I'd encourage you not to write them off. You really don't have to worry about Chicago's reputation in law or anywhere else. I trust you and your classmates to hold it up just as mine has.

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Lawquacious
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby Lawquacious » Wed May 11, 2011 9:05 pm

koalatriste wrote:
tycho_brahe wrote:
gobulls11 wrote:i guess horrible people is too strong. more like people i cant ever see myself working with. like in one class there's a kid who trolls the class discussion board, answering kids' online questions intended for professor rudely. many more stories like that. it's not the end of the world and i'm sure i have annoying habits too - just would prefer to get away if i could.


that sounds like every law school. the type self-selects into the profession in general.


+1000.

here at Cornell, we have a gigantic asshole gunner (yeah, i know you read these boards too, but i could care less) in my section who typed out answers in GIGANTIC/OBNOXIOUS font to EVERY single question that was asked in class (so that everyone around him could see that he knew the answer). this kid also kept a "record" (and shared it with everyone) of his correct in-class iclicker question responses for Civil Procedure. no. one. cares.

another member of my section made an online video (one of those text-to-video things) reenacting a cold call where one student didn't know the four elements of negligence after we had been talking about negligence for like a month. he sent it to the whole section and the professor (accidentally. love.) with the intent to malign the student.

unfortunately, i think law school attracts these types of vapid people, but I can understand the desire to leave a Cornell/Chicago - i.e. small schools that are relatively (certainly more so in Cornell's case) insular and notoriously nasty. i wouldn't hope that Columbia is better in terms of student population, BUT at least it affords an opportunity to have a social life outside of the law school. maybe i'll see you there in August!

as a side note, thanks for helping me cross Chicago off of my list.


Trying to say that most/ all law schools are as gunnerish as Chicago by comparing it to Cornell doesn't prove your point exactly... considering that both Cornell and Chicago have reps of being pretty miserably competitive and hardworking schools IMO. But I do think some of this is just the law school experience in general....

EDIT: I didn't see your point acknowledging the Chicago and Cornell reps initially... and yeah, Columbia has at least the rep of Chicago when it comes to nasty gunnerism and competition from what I've heard.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Wed May 11, 2011 9:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

stylishlaw
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby stylishlaw » Wed May 11, 2011 9:05 pm

USAIRS wrote:Like I said, it seems inherent to any law school. Chicago is generally intense, so I think people may let it get to them more than average. At any school, there are a few people who can basically ruin it for everyone. Basically, you know ten percent and like them, you know the really high profile annoying people, who are another 10%. The other 80 percent you don't really get to know, which is a shame, because they are actually alright. The annoying 10% make themselves seem like they are 80% of the class because they make themselves the center of attention like 90% of the time.

Let me put it this way. If we were in law school, any lawschool - not just Chicago, I could already tell that I'd find one or two people who posted in this thread annoying as hell - for example the one who automatically wrote chicago off. That person would probably think the same thing about me. There are 8 people who are present in this thread either by posting or just reading who I'll never get to know, but are probably cool.


It makes sense. The vocal minority portraying themselves as the majority. I do have to say however that some schools seem to be truly collegiate. It appears as you climb higher on the USNWR rankings that the frequency of that type of behavior increases.

USAIRS
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby USAIRS » Wed May 11, 2011 9:06 pm

dresden doll wrote:Huh, I must be one of the few people around here who thinks my classmates are pretty great.

Your chances at cls and boalt are decent. The 5 percent metric applies to transfers from lower t1 and below.


Isn't there some kind of saying, like "If you don't know who the village idiot is, then it is you."

JUST KIDDING, of course.

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Lawquacious
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby Lawquacious » Wed May 11, 2011 9:08 pm

USAIRS wrote: 1L year is meant to suck.


TITCR.

But, OTOH, by all means, good luck with the transfer. Although I am not particularly thrilled with the school I am at (or city I am in) and want to 'transfer up,' I do think I would have a pretty hard time leaving the climate I am in for a brutal climate, even for some of the best of schools (so I can relate to the climate issue for one thing).

Congrats, cause your in a great position either way.

USAIRS
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby USAIRS » Wed May 11, 2011 9:16 pm

Lawquacious wrote:
USAIRS wrote: 1L year is meant to suck.


TITCR.

But, OTOH, by all means, good luck with the transfer. Although I am not particularly thrilled with the school I am at (or city I am in) and want to 'transfer up,' I do think I would have a pretty hard time leaving the climate I am in for a brutal climate, even for some of the best of schools (so I can relate to the climate issue for one thing).

Congrats, cause your in a great position either way.


There is kind of a "why not" factor, except that OP would give up money, possibly good grades or a chance at law review, and the relationships he's developed at Chicago. But for my scholarship (and bad grades) I probably would have considered it. But the best friendships were forged in the fires of 1L year, so it seems harsh to let the bastards win by transferring.

Seriously, gobulls. Don't let the bastards win.

gobulls11
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby gobulls11 » Wed May 11, 2011 9:30 pm

USAIRS,

the problem is that they're not bastards.


Edit: for all you future law students reading this post - Chicago does have good qualities: sick professors, allegedly good oci placement - but just beware that its weird point based grading system + academic reptuation + small class size does have a real impact on your experience so choose accordingly.
Last edited by gobulls11 on Thu May 12, 2011 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

USAIRS
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby USAIRS » Wed May 11, 2011 9:48 pm

gobulls11 wrote:USAIRS,

the problem is that they're not bastards. They're at home. I'm the bastard who should've listened to the damn rumors and gone somewhere else.

no chance at law review - i'm taking my shot at peer schools. as much as transferring is a hassle, it still beats just giving up.


If it is between giving up and transferring, then go for it. I have no stake. New York would probably be loads of fun. Don't leave NYU off that list, or Harvard, Stanford, UPenn, Michigan or even Northwestern. They could all be great experiences.

You don't have to listen to me or your friends for that matter. But, a lot of people dislike their 1L year as much as you do, and they all seem to get past it. I hated it more than you did. I'll put money on that. Seriously - if wishes were bullets, there would have been blood my first month there. 1L is its own beast in terms of dealing with the amplified personalities of other students. Your 2L and 3L classes are just a different mix of people, and there is a new crop of 1Ls who, for whatever reason, will seem way more normal than your class. It is just the way things are in law school. Fortunately, ain't nobody forcing you to surround yourself with the handful of people who are really obnoxious after 1L.

You know, depending on what you do after graduation, these people will be your peers one way or another, even if you don't go to law school with them. From my own experience, I found that not letting the bastards get to you was a good lesson for dealing with being a litigator. They only get worse when they are paid to be a thorn in your side.

To be insensitive, though probably in a non-chicago way: Man up, dude. Most other people are doing it, you should, too.

USAIRS
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Re: UChicago to Columbia/Boalt

Postby USAIRS » Wed May 11, 2011 9:57 pm

I shouldn't disregard your feelings and observations. That stuff about the grading and class size etc is real. Chicago can be a rough social experience, but you are pretty much through the hardest part. In part because I actually know exactly the way you feel, I want to just give you some sort of a "Gipper" speech, but it would have fallen on deaf ears for me, too.




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