Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

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rountrea
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Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby rountrea » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:40 pm

I know the general feeling on this web board regarding Cooley Law. So forgive me if I am struggling with this choice, I have had nothing but a good experience here. I have found all the professors to be knowledgeable, very open, and willing to refer students to good firms in the Detroit area. I have done very well at Cooley, I was number one in my class after first term; however, I took a little fall in my second term but I am still in the top %5. I went to Cooley because I didn't want to move (dumb decision--it had to do with a girl) and they offered me a %85 scholarship. My question is this, should I give up my G.P.A., the money, the great relationship I have with a number of professors (and the Dean), the relationship I have with Career Services, my job as a TA, and etc. to transfer to Kent and pay full tuition? I am originally from Texas but have been in Michigan for 4 years, and I have no desire really to stay here. I would like to practice in Chicago area I think, and I don't think I want to do the big firm thing. I am thinking more along the lines of government work or attempting to get a federal clerkship and eventually getting hired as an AUSA. I have a feeling I know what the answer is on here but any perspectives and opinions would be much appreciated. I can assure you I have no desire to debate the merits of Cooley, I am just looking for fellow law students opinions. Thanks!

CanadianWolf
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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:53 pm

You are probably the best resource with respect to deciding this matter. As a current student at Cooley with good relationships with the law school dean & with your professors, you should be able to get the best career placement assistance that your current law school can offer. Is it good enough to satisfy your career goals ? If not, are you comfortable paying full cost at Chicago-Kent School of Law ?
As an aside, did you try to transfer to any other law schools besides Chicago-Kent ?

rountrea
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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby rountrea » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:02 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:You are probably the best resource with respect to deciding this matter. As a current student at Cooley with good relationships with the law school dean & with your professors, you should be able to get the best career placement assistance that your current law school can offer. Is it good enough to satisfy your career goals ? If not, are you comfortable paying full cost at Chicago-Kent School of Law ?
As an aside, did you try to transfer to any other law schools besides Chicago-Kent ?


Paying full cost at Kent is the only thing stopping me, yet I am leaning towards it at this point. However, I feel that the most beneficial way to take advantage of Cooley is to stay in Michigan. Which I would rather not do . . . I did not apply to any other schools other than Kent. I kind of applied to Kent on a whim, and got accepted fairly quickly.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby lovelaw27 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:09 pm

Did you apply to any higher ranked schools? I heard people this year were accepted to schools like Minnesota and Wisconsin and they were only top 10% coming from Cooley. Chicago Kent is only ranked 80. Your jobs this year will be relatively weak at oci at Kent this year. You should be able to line a job up through Cooley’s externship program or through one of your connections at Cooley. I am not sure what you are looking for in transferring. If it is just want to get Cooley off your resume long term you will accomplish that. I am not sure that you would really be improving your job prospects that much by transferring. It ultimately comes down to why you want to transfer. If you don’t want to stay in Michigan I would say leave. Cooley has a lot of connections in Michigan, and far less in most other states.
Last edited by lovelaw27 on Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:10 pm

Did you request merit money from Chicago-Kent ? Are you comfortable asking Cooley to increase your merit award to a full scholarship ?
Chicago-Kent is a well respected law school in the Chicago area & may, I don't really know, place well for IP areas of law.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:11 pm

You're top 5% at Cooley with an 85% scholly and you want to give that up for Chicago-Kent? This is a flame, right? The clear, resounding answer is no, almost regardless of your situation. Neither of these schools place well in Chicago, you're going to have to network your way to a job regardless. Pointless to go into a ton more debt and give up your class rank for substantially similar (if not worse) job prospects.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:11 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Did you request merit money from Chicago-Kent ?

Are you a 0L? Transfers don't get merit aid.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:14 pm

I am not sure that it is universally true that transfer students don't receive merit awards. Transfers should, however, be eligible for financial aid grants & loans. The only way to be certain is to make a request for aid to Chicago-Kent. About 60% of Chicago-Kent's students receive grants averaging $20,000 per year.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby byunbee » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:15 pm

I don't think AUSA is a realistic possibility from Kent, but it may be the smarter long term choice for your career to get Cooley off your resume.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby rountrea » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:18 pm

lovelaw27 wrote:Did you apply to any higher ranked schools? I heard people this year were accepted to schools like Minnesota and Wisconsin and they were only top 10% coming from Cooley. Chicago Kent is only ranked 80. Your jobs this year will be relatively weak at oci at Kent this year. You should be able to line a job up through Cooley’s externship program or through one of your connections at Cooley. I am not sure what you are looking for in transferring. If it is just want to get Cooley off your resume long term you will accomplish that. I am not sure that you would really be improving your job prospects that much by transferring. It ultimately comes down to why you want to transfer. If you don’t want to stay in Michigan I would say leave. Cooley has a lot of connections in Michigan, and far less in most other states.


I did not apply at any other schools. I don't want to stay in Michigan, which is as you said, probably, the bottom line in considering this. I know that if I stay at Cooley, I can for sure get an internship with a Federal Judge in the 6th circuit, which may come in handy applying for clerkships.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby rountrea » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:21 pm

byunbee wrote:I don't think AUSA is a realistic possibility from Kent, but it may be the smarter long term choice for your career to get Cooley off your resume.

I know at least one AUSA from Cooley (graduated 2004 I believe), I don't know about Kent, but I would assume if they would hire a Cooley grad they would hire a Kent grad . . .

mistergoft wrote:You're top 5% at Cooley with an 85% scholly and you want to give that up for Chicago-Kent? This is a flame, right? The clear, resounding answer is no, almost regardless of your situation. Neither of these schools place well in Chicago, you're going to have to network your way to a job regardless. Pointless to go into a ton more debt and give up your class rank for substantially similar (if not worse) job prospects.


Not a flame . . . but thanks for the advice.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:23 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
mistergoft wrote:Neither of these schools place well in Chicago

:?

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

Kent outplaces a number of T1 schools (including Florida) in NLJ 250 placement. If you don't think these students are being hired in Chicago, where would you guess they are being hired?

NLJ placement is a horrible metric to use to gauge the employment prospects of a transfer student to a non-T14 school, though.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby confused3L » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:24 pm

...
Last edited by confused3L on Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby lawschoollll » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:25 pm

mistergoft wrote:You're top 5% at Cooley with an 85% scholly and you want to give that up for Chicago-Kent? This is a flame, right? The clear, resounding answer is no, almost regardless of your situation. Neither of these schools place well in Chicago, you're going to have to network your way to a job regardless. Pointless to go into a ton more debt and give up your class rank for substantially similar (if not worse) job prospects.

+1

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:25 pm

Why isn't the NLJ survey a worthwhile metric to use ?

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby rountrea » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:27 pm

confused3L wrote:For the love of all things good and pure, don't go to either of these schools. Better yet, don't go to law school period. As the past two years have shown us, your choice to attend either of these schools WILL NOT end well.


It is too late for that decision. However, I have faith in my ability to land a job upon graduation. It just would probably be in Michigan, if I stay here.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:31 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
mistergoft wrote:Neither of these schools place well in Chicago

:?

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

Kent outplaces a number of T1 schools (including Florida) in NLJ 250 placement. If you don't think these students are being hired in Chicago, where would you guess they are being hired?

NLJ placement is a horrible metric to use to gauge the employment prospects of a transfer student to a non-T14 school, though.

I am open to hearing your proposal for a better metric.

There isn't a better metric. If you're outside the top 15% at a school outside of the T30ish schools, getting a job is going to require networking, personal connections to the person's target market, good interviewing skills, etc. Of course, OP can go to Chi Kent and hope to land a job through OCI, but, the reality of the situation is that it is not likely OP will secure a job through OCI. OP is going to have to hustle for a job regardless, it's better that he hustle while going into significantly less debt, IMHO. Of course, if he thinks his prospects of networking are significantly improved, he might think the extra cost is justified by the benefit; I, however, do not think it is.

Also, nice subtle shot at UF. Let's just say I got enough interviews that I think my decision to stay was justifiable.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby confused3L » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:34 pm

Yeah, sorry about that. Just read your initial post in full. However, I still stand by the sentiment and if I was in your situation, I would just cut my losses. T-14 student here, shut out of OCI, and I am not very hopeful in this economy. So, I am not quite sure how people at either of these schools are doing, but I can't imagine that either of these schools are placing well at all.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby byunbee » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:35 pm

rountrea wrote:
byunbee wrote:I don't think AUSA is a realistic possibility from Kent, but it may be the smarter long term choice for your career to get Cooley off your resume.

I know at least one AUSA from Cooley (graduated 2004 I believe), I don't know about Kent, but I would assume if they would hire a Cooley grad they would hire a Kent grad . . .


I change my mind. I think you should stay.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but given your rank and faculty connections at Cooley, you may be one the lucky few who can find employment from your graduating class. I'm pretty sure you would have to start all over at Kent, and in a significantly saturated market. Just suck it up and work in Michigan for a few years, it's better than being unemployed in Chicago.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:36 pm

confused3L wrote:Yeah, sorry about that. Just read your initial post in full. However, I still stand by the sentiment and if I was in your situation, I would just cut my losses. T-14 student here, shut out of OCI, and I am not very hopeful in this economy. So, I am not quite sure how people at either of these schools are doing, but I can't imagine that either of these schools are placing well at all.

Join your local bar ass'n and start networking man. Meet people, put yourself out there. Read "Guerrilla Guide to Getting the Legal Job of your Dreams" it has tons of good suggestions.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby rountrea » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:42 pm

Mistergoft:
Thanks, that is what my head tells me to do. I am just struggling because I would like to have Cooley off of my resume. But I am not sure if it is worth the extra $60,000+ to do so. Then again if I decide to go back to Texas I have a few leads that I don't think will care, as long as I have a JD. Ideally I would like to be a prosecutor or go the JAG route (which may be my best route coming out of Cooley).

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:42 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Also, nice subtle shot at UF. Let's just say I got enough interviews that I think my decision to stay was justifiable.


:lol: My shot at UF was neither subtle nor directed at you in particular. We both know how highly I think of your success and job options.

I was mostly contesting the assertion that Kent did not place well in Chicago; all available statistics indicate that they place as well or better than most schools of comparable rank, including some schools ranked much more highly.


My particular contention was made in reference to OP's situation, not in general. Considering transfers are treated as students about at or a little above median from all available evidence, I was making the contention that a Chi-Kent does not place students ranked in that situation well in Chicago (or anywhere). I don't know all that much about Chi-Kent, but, I suppose that it places relatively well comparative to its rank.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:44 pm

rountrea wrote:Mistergoft:
Thanks, that is what my head tells me to do. I am just struggling because I would like to have Cooley off of my resume. But I am not sure if it is worth the extra $60,000+ to do so. Then again if I decide to go back to Texas I have a few leads that I don't think will care, as long as I have a JD. Ideally I would like to be a prosecutor or go the JAG route (which may be my best route coming out of Cooley).

Having Cooley on your resume isn't going to blacklist you. Cooley probably has a relatively large alumni network that you can tap into, and after your first job getting hired as a lateral is going to be more about your work experience rather than where you went to school ten years before.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby rountrea » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:47 pm

Thanks everyone for the advice. I have been a silent observer of this website for a while, and I have seen the grief Cooley gets on here (most deservedly so) I didn't expect it to be this civil.

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Re: Should I go from Cooley (%85 Scholly) to Chicago-Kent?

Postby rountrea » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:50 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
rountrea wrote:Mistergoft:
Thanks, that is what my head tells me to do. I am just struggling because I would like to have Cooley off of my resume. But I am not sure if it is worth the extra $60,000+ to do so. Then again if I decide to go back to Texas I have a few leads that I don't think will care, as long as I have a JD. Ideally I would like to be a prosecutor or go the JAG route (which may be my best route coming out of Cooley).


In those cases, your law school should matter less than your experience/grades. If you haven't stopped by to talk to the JAG guys in the Military Law thread, I suggest you do so. There are some phenomenally knowledgeable and helpful posters there.


I honestly have just thought of the JAG route so I have done very little research on it. Doesn't seem to be that bad of a gig. I just want to get trial experience, and I didn't come to law school for the money.




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