Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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Should I transfer to NYU, Penn, or stay?

NYU
19
37%
Penn
18
35%
Stay at current school
15
29%
 
Total votes: 52

run26.2
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Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby run26.2 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:54 pm

First off, I want to practice in DC or Dallas. I know those are different places, but I have family and/or friends in each place. I am mainly interested in IP and I have a technical background and an undergrad in a hard science.

My current school is in the top 25. I wrote on to law review.

Everyone I have talked to is telling me to go to NYU. It is a great school with excellent profs, a plethora of interesting classes, speakers, events, etc. on any given day of the week, excellent placement, and an administration that seem to have its schtick together. I like all of these things about the school. For me, the downsides are the expense and the crowded nature of the city. I do not want to practice in New York when I graduate.

I really like Penn's Entrepreneurship Clinic, their placement in BigLaw (especially DC), the lower cost of living, their volunteer requirement, the smaller size of the school, the ease of getting on to a journal, and an administration that also seems to have its stuff together. The downside here seems to be Philly itself. I don't know enough to know if I would like it or not, but I have heard bad reports about various parts of Philly, including areas near the school.

I'm leaning toward transferring to Penn.

Should I transfer to the place I like and just accept that I have closed some doors (please, if you know which doors I close by choosing Penn, please enlighten me)? Should I just suck it up and deal with NYC for 2 more years? Or should I be happy with how I have done at my current school and stay there?

TLSers, with magnanimity and wisdom, please weigh in. If your decision came down to these two schools, I am especially interested in your opinion.
Last edited by run26.2 on Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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merichard87
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby merichard87 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:58 pm

Is your current school in DC or Dallas?

Do you have a job this summer?

run26.2
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby run26.2 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:59 pm

merichard87 wrote:Is your current school in DC or Dallas?

Do you have a job this summer?

My current school is not in DC or Dallas.

I have a job in Dallas this summer.

czelede
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby czelede » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:50 am

NYU has a better IP program (Penn's is unranked) so for those purposes...NYU.

However!

I don't think you should discount the comfort of the environment - they are both highly ranked schools (some TLSers like to argue that N is closer to MVP than CC) that place about equally outside of NYC, which you don't want anyways. The COL really does make a difference. Both schools have a reputation of being fairly collegial, though Penn moreso; however, Penn's small class size may be a negative for you since you are a transfer and most of the 1L bonding will have been missed. Penn's connections to Wharton and interdisciplinary opportunities may be a benefit for a corporate law track. Lay prestige is about equal if that matters to you, i.e only prestigious to those that matter (to everyone else: rich kid blowoff school/NYLS vs. Penn State).

I am personally a huge fan of Penn so I am biased here. Everyone I know that has gone there for undergrad/grad/law has absolutely loved it, and I found the campus area very nice when I visited. Of course you should use common sense when wandering after hours, but that's really the same everywhere you go. The crime reports tend to be for areas that you wouldn't really be wandering around in anyways. The environment of Penn is what makes it my top choice: I love that the campus is more insulated (whereas NYU is just smack dab in the middle of everything), giving it a more campus-town feel. I love the Rittenhouse Square and Old City area - I'm totally into historic feeling places and that part of Philly definitely does it for me (kind of like a poor man's Boston, if you will). If you are someone that likes the hustle and bustle of modernity NYU may be more the place for you.

Have you visited both campuses? Is there one you feel more at home with? Does your feeling about NYU/NYC make you more apprehensive than you're comfortable with?

It's also hard to say whether you should transfer at all without knowing exactly which T25 (I'm assuming not T14?). But honestly, if you're interested in IP Penn vs. NYU isn't going to make much of a difference if you have a quality undergrad+work experience (IP cares about this more than biglaw). Especially if you're a female.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:55 am

What school are you at now? Are you on LR? Is it in the region you want to work when you graduate? These are details that are necessary to make an informed opinion.

run26.2
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby run26.2 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:32 am

vanwinkle wrote:What school are you at now? Are you on LR? Is it in the region you want to work when you graduate? These are details that are necessary to make an informed opinion.

Emory, law review, not my preferred market.

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samiseaborn
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby samiseaborn » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:49 am

Scholarship money at current school? Is Emory's placement for your goal market any better than Penn/NYU?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:21 am

run26.2 wrote:Emory, law review, not my preferred market.

That's really tough. You should consider staying put IMO, especially since you already have Texas ties. Having LR at Emory is a badge of honor, showing you're at the very top of your class, and that'll really light up your resume; at Penn or NYU you'll just be an average Penn or NYU student. You might do better staying where you are.

run26.2
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby run26.2 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:31 am

samiseaborn wrote:Scholarship money at current school? Is Emory's placement for your goal market any better than Penn/NYU?

Scholarship is substantial. Emory's placement in DC is not as good as the others. Not sure about Dallas.

Assume my preference us to transfer. Would it be foolish to pass up NYU for Penn?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:46 am

You have a substantial scholarship and LR? I'd stay. You're giving up far too much for the gain you'd be getting.

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Hinkleymustang
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby Hinkleymustang » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:28 pm

vanwinkle wrote:You have a substantial scholarship and LR? I'd stay. You're giving up far too much for the gain you'd be getting.


+1

run26.2
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby run26.2 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:16 pm

Almost 60% of the people have voted for a transfer, yet no one has weighed in on why I should transfer.

Reasons people!


...Please.

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bk1
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:21 pm

run26.2 wrote:Almost 60% of the people have voted for a transfer, yet no one has weighed in on why I should transfer.

Reasons people!


...Please.


I would assume many of those people voted prior to having the additional information.

run26.2
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby run26.2 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:33 pm

bk1 wrote:
run26.2 wrote:Almost 60% of the people have voted for a transfer, yet no one has weighed in on why I should transfer.

Reasons people!


...Please.


I would assume many of those people voted prior to having the additional information.


The additional information was the school and the scholarship. The LR part was in my initial post and I stated in a post, I think before I added the poll, that my school was not in my target market. So numerous votes were cast after the fact.

Regardless, if you vote for transfer, please give your reasoning. I understand the reasons for staying. Mainly, I am interested in hearing if choosing Penn over NYU would be a bad idea and why.

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jlockhart6
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby jlockhart6 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:45 pm

To be blunt on a cursory overview this seems to be a ranking whorish post. You have ties to one of your two ideal markets, law review, substantial $ (which is huge ITE), at a T25 school and you somehow think it is best to go?? DC is going to be hard ato crack in general, and I really don't think you gain a whole lot by becoming median at Penn or NYU. I know you want reasons on why to transfer, but in all honesty I'm just not seeing much merit in going ... but inevitably you have to be happy with your school so good luck either way.

thechee
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby thechee » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:49 pm

run26.2 wrote: The downside here seems to be Philly itself. I don't know enough to know if I would like it or not, but I have heard bad reports about various parts of Philly, including areas near the school.


This was my biggest concern about Penn. When I went to visit, I had really low expectations for Philly, and especially the area around the UPenn campus. A full day walking around the area allayed all my concerns. Philly really is an underrated city, which I found to be something of a cross between Boston and New York, on an obviously smaller scale.

Housing is amazingly cheap, and it's quite easy to get around. There's a reason that some people find it worth it to live in Philly and spend $1000/month on an Amtrak pass to commute to NYC every day for work. If you've spent your life in a gated community, then West Philly-where many Penn students live-might seem a bit intimidating, but I found it to be quite charming (I'm from Boston, and have also lived in a small Midwestern town, as well many years in a major European city).

CanadianWolf
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:45 pm

Transfer because it is obvious that you want to do so & it reads as if you don't really like Emory despite the merit money & law review.
Assuming that you have been accepted to both Penn & NYU, go to NYU for IP law. Or go to Penn if you think that you can get onto a journal & want to be an entrepreneur. Or stay if you think that Emory's Law review can get you interviews in Dallas or DC--which doesn't seem likely, but you should know better than anyone else on this board.
Did you apply elsewhere as a transfer student ?
P.S. Visit both schools & the decision might become much easier. I really don't think that you have any bad alternative among your three choices.

run26.2
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby run26.2 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:05 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Transfer because it is obvious that you want to do so & it reads as if you don't really like Emory despite the merit money & law review.
Assuming that you have been accepted to both Penn & NYU, go to NYU for IP law. Or go to Penn if you think that you can get onto a journal & want to be an entrepreneur. Or stay if you think that Emory's Law review can get you interviews in Dallas or DC--which doesn't seem likely, but you should know better than anyone else on this board.
Did you apply elsewhere as a transfer student ?
P.S. Visit both schools & the decision might become much easier. I really don't think that you have any bad alternative among your three choices.

I would prefer to transfer mainly because I don't like Atlanta and I do not want to be "stuck" there. We have far fewer DC employers interviewing Emory students this year than we did in years past. The school seems to have been hit harder with respect to employment prospects in DC than other schools. I do not dislike my school, I just want to increase my chances of landing a job in DC or Dallas.

Re: Dallas, either way I will have to do a lot of networking on my own. It might work out from either school. But to maximize DC chances, it seems better to transfer, and that Penn is superior to NYU in this aspect.

thechee
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby thechee » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:15 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Visit both schools

thechee
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby thechee » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:35 pm

My guess is that both NYU and Penn will give you much more flexibility than Emory.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'd think that, since you did well enough at Emory to get into 2 top schools, you will probably do well enough at NYU/Penn to make yourself competitive biglaw. That makes the prospect of considerably more debt less daunting.

As far as NYU versus Penn, it will really depend on what you are looking for. Penn is roughly half the size of NYU, in a city that's less than half the size of NYC. That comes down to a personal preference. While NYU is clearly stronger than Penn for NYC, I sense that they are more of less peer schools outside of New York.

I loved Penn when I visited (didn't apply to any NYC schools), so it definitely gets my vote.

run26.2
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby run26.2 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:41 pm

thechee wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Visit both schools

Trying to do this right now.

Danteshek
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby Danteshek » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:01 pm

Transfer because in this economy, you need to attend the best law school possible. I wish this weren't the case, but it is. I say Penn.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:10 pm

Danteshek wrote:Transfer because in this economy, you need to attend the best law school possible. I wish this weren't the case, but it is. I say Penn.

But this is oversimplifying things. OP isn't facing the risk of being seen as an ordinary student at Emory vs. Penn; OP is talking about giving up Law Review and the special status that gives him in order to become an ordinary student at Penn. Emory and Penn are not so drastically different that OP will have huge employment opportunities there for 2L summer, and will have an uphill fight by both not having LR and not having grades from Penn. The scholarship money if he stays is just icing on the cake.

OP won't be job-hunting as an ordinary student from Emory, he'll be job-hunting as someone whose resume screams top-of-the-class. Leaving that behind doesn't seem worth it in this situation.

MJMD
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby MJMD » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:11 pm

Danteshek wrote:Transfer because in this economy, you need to attend the best law school possible. I wish this weren't the case, but it is. I say Penn.


In this economy, you need to spare yourself as much debt as possible too.

Emory is fine for DC or Dallas: giving up a significant scholarship there plus law review is simply insane; you'll end up with an inferior CV, and much worse off financially.

Danteshek
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Re: Help decide between transferring to NYU or Penn or staying

Postby Danteshek » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:18 pm

I disagree. Transfer.

Also, Van Winkle is transferring from UVA to Harvard. I'm not sure he can credibly advise you to stay.

I gave up law review at a T3 and a small scholarship to go to Loyola. There are at least two other people from my T3 who are giving up LR and much bigger scholarships to make exactly the same move. It happens every year. My situation isn't exactly analogous (you have much better options), but at least you can see where I am coming from.




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