UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only available to the creator of each thread. The anonymous posting feature is intended to permit the solicitation of anonymous advice regarding the transfer application process, chances of being accepted, etc. Unacceptable uses include: testing the feature, questions which are clearly fake or hypothetical in nature, harassing other users, etc. Posters should also read and understand the announcements posted at the top of the Transfers forum prior to using the anonymous feature.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
27AppleTarts
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:16 pm

UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby 27AppleTarts » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:29 pm

Completely torn on this. I applied to H & S, but probably don't have the stats to get in (UCLA doesn't rank, but ~3.7, probably top ~10-20%). I made LR at UCLA.

Admitted to Berkeley last week. Berkeley's LR write-on is at the end of July, but no guarantees I'll make it, and I won't find out until after my acceptance is due.

I definitely want to clerk. I'm interested in both BigLaw and DOJ/USAO. I'm interested in tech law, but not completely committed to it. I have a strong preference for practicing in CA but no preference between LA and SF.

Should I do the transfer?

User avatar
bankruptedcasino
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:24 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby bankruptedcasino » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:41 pm

Assuming you're paying in-state tuition for UCLA and you're not on any form of scholarship there, I'd transfer.

My logic: Boalt is one of the best. You could stand a decent shot of walking into the DOJ/USAO from there. I'm not sure how UCLA with Law Review compares, but I know that the feds like prestige and it doesn't get more prestigious than Boalt.

Congratulations to you. Many a 1L wish they were in this kind of predicament.

User avatar
NoleinNY
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby NoleinNY » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:44 pm

bankruptedcasino wrote:Congratulations to you. Many a 1L wish they were in this kind of predicament.



This.

Also, just curious, would you be giving up scholarship $$$ from UCLA if you transferred?

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby MrKappus » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:50 pm

27AppleTarts wrote:Completely torn on this. I applied to H & S, but probably don't have the stats to get in (UCLA doesn't rank, but ~3.7, probably top ~10-20%). I made LR at UCLA.

Admitted to Berkeley last week. Berkeley's LR write-on is at the end of July, but no guarantees I'll make it, and I won't find out until after my acceptance is due.

I definitely want to clerk. I'm interested in both BigLaw and DOJ/USAO. I'm interested in tech law, but not completely committed to it. I have a strong preference for practicing in CA but no preference between LA and SF.

Should I do the transfer?


If you don't crack the top 10% (preferably top 5%), you don't stand much of a chance at H or S. You should go to Berkeley.

27AppleTarts
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:16 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby 27AppleTarts » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:55 pm

Thanks, I do realize I'm in a good position, and I know things will work out either way -- I just don't want to go through the logistical hassle of transferring if there isn't a high chance of measurable benefit.

I have a tiny scholarship that won't make a difference in the long run, so it's not really a factor.

Thank you to everyone for your help in making this decision! Berkeley wants to know by July 15, so I don't have much time.

User avatar
NoleinNY
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby NoleinNY » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:03 pm

After additional thought, I think transferring to Cal may not be worth it. That LR status is a strong + for clerkships (or so goes TLS conventional wisdom; as an 0L I hesitate to make definitive statements on such matters.) Stanford and Harvard are horses of a different color. For academia, the above still stands.

Of course, if you want better prestige + more BigLaw or Fed options then by all means, ditch your bruins for some golden bears.

transplantedbuckeye
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:25 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby transplantedbuckeye » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:11 pm

Personally, I would probably stay because you are at/near the top of the class and have LR, which I think is definitely going to help you more than the risk of losing it will.

User avatar
megaTTTron
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby megaTTTron » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:04 pm

transplantedbuckeye wrote:Personally, I would probably stay because you are at/near the top of the class and have LR, which I think is definitely going to help you more than the risk of losing it will.


While this is good advice, I still think you should transfer. I just think the jump is big enough to warrant leaving. Plus, you can still put LR on your resume, and your UCLA grades. But if you want LA, staying is totally reasonable.

Also -- maybe you could leverage a bigger scholly at UCLA?

2009 Prospective
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:32 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby 2009 Prospective » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:10 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
transplantedbuckeye wrote:Personally, I would probably stay because you are at/near the top of the class and have LR, which I think is definitely going to help you more than the risk of losing it will.


While this is good advice, I still think you should transfer. I just think the jump is big enough to warrant leaving. Plus, you can still put LR on your resume, and your UCLA grades. But if you want LA, staying is totally reasonable.

Also -- maybe you could leverage a bigger scholly at UCLA?


I disagree. If I were OP, I would stay unless I got into Stanford. Either way, OP should definitely talk to the appropriate people though to see if extra scholarship money could be leveraged.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby MrKappus » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:00 pm

megaTTTron wrote:Plus, you can still put LR on your resume...


No.

2009 Prospective
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:32 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby 2009 Prospective » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:02 pm

MrKappus wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:Plus, you can still put LR on your resume...


No.


+1

Being able to put "invited to LR" at old school won't help at all for obtaining clerkships. I would think top of the class and law review at UCLA could very well put OP in a better position for clerkships than Berkley w/o a journal.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby MrKappus » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:05 pm

2009 Prospective wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:Plus, you can still put LR on your resume...


No.


+1

Being able to put "invited to LR" at old school won't help at all for obtaining clerkships. I would think top of the class and law review at UCLA could very well put OP in a better position for clerkships than Berkley w/o a journal.


+1. (Am I +1-ing myself? Oops.) If it's possible to get on Berkeley's LR, then you could be OK. But the value of LR is the research/cite-check skills it gives you. This is a 1L opinion, but I just don't think "invited to LR" will carry the same weight.

User avatar
Attucks
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:15 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby Attucks » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:15 pm

NoleinNY wrote:as an 0L I hesitate to make definitive statements on such matters


Image

Journeybound
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:12 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby Journeybound » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:18 pm

I'm not sure if it matters, but at Berkeley you can join most journals, other than LR, without doing a write-on. I know that some who get into academia only participate on secondary journals. Would it make a huge difference at Berkeley to be on a secondary journal instead of LR for clerkships? Maybe being a staff editor might help?

User avatar
megaTTTron
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby megaTTTron » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:56 pm

MrKappus wrote:
2009 Prospective wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:Plus, you can still put LR on your resume...


No.


+1

Being able to put "invited to LR" at old school won't help at all for obtaining clerkships. I would think top of the class and law review at UCLA could very well put OP in a better position for clerkships than Berkley w/o a journal.


+1. (Am I +1-ing myself? Oops.) If it's possible to get on Berkeley's LR, then you could be OK. But the value of LR is the research/cite-check skills it gives you. This is a 1L opinion, but I just don't think "invited to LR" will carry the same weight.


Okay, I did not realize that OP's objective was to obtain a clerkship -- no doubt "invited to join" will not carry as much weight as actually being on LR. HOWEVER, you are wrong to say it will not carry much weight. TToN experienced this first hand with firms at Chicago's OCI:

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
If it isn't too late, you really should do the write-on at your original school. Don't underestimate how much the "accepted to blahblahblah law review" line seems to help at OCI. A mistake I learned the hard way. ("You didn't make it on to law review." "Well, I was accepted to transfer bef.." "I see you got on to CJIL. Ok." *ugh*.) Other transfers commented that interviewers seemed to notice that they made LR at the old schools.



See: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=117901&start=50

User avatar
dbt
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:46 am

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby dbt » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:59 pm

I would stay put. Berkeley is an excellent school, but I think the gap between UCLA + LR and Berkeley without is insignificant.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby MrKappus » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:08 pm

megaTTTron wrote:Okay, I did not realize that OP's objective was to obtain a clerkship -- no doubt "invited to join" will not carry as much weight as actually being on LR. HOWEVER, you are wrong to say it will not carry much weight. TToN experienced this first hand with firms at Chicago's OCI:


This makes no sense. Sorry. If you graded on, then the firms know you did (or could have). If you didn't, then you didn't get any of the actual experience of doing research and checking cites (which is why LR is valued), so you don't get the benefits of doing so. Obvious.

P.S. TToN (whoever that is) and his/her experience during OCI has nothing to do w/ clerkships.

sbalive
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:05 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby sbalive » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:12 pm

Agreed with above, definitely stay at UCLA & on LR.

User avatar
megaTTTron
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby megaTTTron » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:17 pm

MrKappus wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:Okay, I did not realize that OP's objective was to obtain a clerkship -- no doubt "invited to join" will not carry as much weight as actually being on LR. HOWEVER, you are wrong to say it will not carry much weight. TToN experienced this first hand with firms at Chicago's OCI:


This makes no sense. Sorry. If you graded on, then the firms know you did (or could have). If you didn't, then you didn't get any of the actual experience of doing research and checking cites (which is why LR is valued), so you don't get the benefits of doing so. Obvious.

P.S. TToN (whoever that is) and his/her experience during OCI has nothing to do w/ clerkships.


not carry much =/= not carry as much

read closely my friend.

Still, I think it's wrong to write off "invited to join" as worthless. First of all, not all LRs are grade-on, many require the write-on even with stellar grades. If UCLA's is purely grade-on then, correct, it will carry even less weight.

As I said, with clerkships, it will not carry as much weight as actual LR experience. But it will carry weight at OCI. That was my point. If OP is SOLELY interested in clerkships, then stay no doubt (I didn't glean that from the OP), but if OP isn't sure, then my advice is still to transfer.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby MrKappus » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:27 pm

megaTTTron wrote:not carry much =/= not carry as much

read closely my friend.

Still, I think it's wrong to write off "invited to join" as worthless. First of all, not all LRs are grade-on, many require the write-on even with stellar grades. If UCLA's is purely grade-on then, correct, it will carry even less weight.

As I said, with clerkships, it will not carry as much weight as actual LR experience. But it will carry weight at OCI. That was my point. If OP is SOLELY interested in clerkships, then stay no doubt (I didn't glean that from the OP), but if OP isn't sure, then my advice is still to transfer.


Transferring w/o a journal doesn't leave you in great shape wrt clerkships. "Invited to join" means precisely what most right-thinking ppl think it does. Nothing.

User avatar
megaTTTron
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby megaTTTron » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:32 pm

MrKappus wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:not carry much =/= not carry as much

read closely my friend.

Still, I think it's wrong to write off "invited to join" as worthless. First of all, not all LRs are grade-on, many require the write-on even with stellar grades. If UCLA's is purely grade-on then, correct, it will carry even less weight.

As I said, with clerkships, it will not carry as much weight as actual LR experience. But it will carry weight at OCI. That was my point. If OP is SOLELY interested in clerkships, then stay no doubt (I didn't glean that from the OP), but if OP isn't sure, then my advice is still to transfer.


Transferring w/o a journal doesn't leave you in great shape wrt clerkships. "Invited to join" means precisely what most right-thinking ppl think it does. Nothing.


Of course it doesn't leave you in "great shape" I totally agree, I never said it did.

But man, you're killin' me with the second sentence, lol. Really? Haha. You sound like a whiny 0L.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby MrKappus » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:39 pm

megaTTTron wrote:Of course it doesn't leave you in "great shape" I totally agree, I never said it did.

But man, you're killin' me with the second sentence, lol. Really? Haha. You sound like a whiny 0L.


Super. We agree. "Invited to join" wrt to clerkships means nothing.

User avatar
megaTTTron
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby megaTTTron » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:45 pm

MrKappus wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:Of course it doesn't leave you in "great shape" I totally agree, I never said it did.

But man, you're killin' me with the second sentence, lol. Really? Haha. You sound like a whiny 0L.


Super. We agree. "Invited to join" wrt to clerkships means nothing.



Haha, you're like one of those kids who says "I should be a lawyer because I love to argue!" When in reality you just refused to acknowledge any other point of view besides your own, and when you're confronted with a different perspective you get defensive.

Chill out my friend.
Last edited by megaTTTron on Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
megaTTTron
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby megaTTTron » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:45 pm

MrKappus wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:Of course it doesn't leave you in "great shape" I totally agree, I never said it did.

But man, you're killin' me with the second sentence, lol. Really? Haha. You sound like a whiny 0L.


Super. We agree. "Invited to join" wrt to clerkships means nothing.



Double post - I'm retarded.

Haha. but actually you keep doing this thing where you jump to absolutes. Maybe sarcasm I'm just not getting lol.

I said it doesn't put you in great shape, which you equated to "worth nothing." Haha.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: UCLA + LR --> Berkeley?

Postby MrKappus » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:48 pm

^ Saw your post history. Did better than you, at a better school. Your superiority complex just amuses me.




Return to “Transfers”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.