Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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towel42
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Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby towel42 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:52 pm

I'm walking in knowing that I'll try to transfer....so that said, if you did it (congrats!)

can you give us:

What school you came from?

Were they supportive?

Any particular profs to avoid and/or cultivate relationships with when getting refs?

Thanks!!

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98234872348
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby 98234872348 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:53 pm

towel42 wrote:I'm walking in knowing that I'll try to transfer....so that said, if you did it (congrats!)

can you give us:

What school you came from?

Were they supportive?

Any particular profs to avoid and/or cultivate relationships with when getting refs?

Thanks!!

Don't go to law school intending to transfer.

Worry about then when you have the grades to consider transferring.

also, since i am feeling nice: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=119690

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vanwinkle
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:58 pm

mistergoft wrote:Don't go to law school intending to transfer.

TITCR.

chitown825
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby chitown825 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:13 pm

towel42 wrote:I'm walking in knowing that I'll try to transfer....so that said, if you did it (congrats!)

can you give us:

What school you came from?

Were they supportive?

Any particular profs to avoid and/or cultivate relationships with when getting refs?

Thanks!!


I am a 0L and therefore should not be posting in this forum.

Bevo06
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby Bevo06 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:46 pm

towel42 wrote:I'm walking in knowing that I'll try to transfer....so that said, if you did it (congrats!)

can you give us:

What school you came from?

Were they supportive?

Any particular profs to avoid and/or cultivate relationships with when getting refs?

Thanks!!


I agree and disagree with people that say - "don't plan on transferring"

I knew I wanted to transfer from the moment I began my 1L year, and it was motivation for me to do the best I possibly could to get the hell out of a T3. That being said, I didn't have much of a social life and had a horrible (4 hour daily) commute - but I ended up in the top of my class and as of now will be attending a school in the top 20 and possibly t14. I agree with many of the posts that say "don't plan on it" because no matter how smart you are in undergrad, every one in your class is also smart. In my opinion, it is all about who wants it more and who is willing to work the hardest (and by working hard I don't mean blabbering with a study group for an hour about nothing)

I was at University of Baltimore - the profs are great. It is the school in general I wasn't a fan of - for multiple reasons. But all the profs were very supportive. UB in particular is a stepping stone for a lot of students, so it really doesn't surprise them that most of their best students leave.

I say go for it - but be prepared to work harder than you ever have in your life!! PM me if you have any more questions, but good luck!

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PKSebben
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby PKSebben » Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:49 pm

Terrible idea. Although this dude happened to beat the odds doesn't mean you will.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby megaTTTron » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:26 pm

Omg this thread has fabulous potential.

TAGGED & BUMPED!

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bwv812
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby bwv812 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:24 am

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Last edited by bwv812 on Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PKSebben
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby PKSebben » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:02 am

bwv812 wrote:
mistergoft wrote:Don't go to law school intending to transfer.


I know this is the conventional response, but it's very close to saying "don't go to law school intending to do well."

I personally think it's fine to intend to transfer (just as it's fine to intend to work in biglaw, even if the majority of student outside T6 or maybe the T10 won't get it), though it is probably not the best idea to makes plans or assume that you'll be able to transfer, especially if you want to make a large jump.


When you are betting 150-200k on that intent, you are in a world of fucking pain if the one-arm bandit doesn't read 3 cherries after you pull. That's the problem. It's fine to to go in an do your best, but your classmates will have something to say about it. They'll all work just as hard as OP does and are just as smart. It's not a problem you can merely throw work at. There is some luck involved too. I wouldn't bet my future like that.

AmicusCuriae
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby AmicusCuriae » Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:33 am

Your time is much better spent focusing on simply doing well during 1L than worrying about transferring.

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jayn3
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby jayn3 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:45 am

AmicusCuriae wrote:Your time is much better spent focusing on simply doing well during 1L than worrying about transferring.


this is a better response than just "don't plan on it." yes, it would be silly to commit $150k of tuition to a T3/4, when you have no guarantee or getting out. but no, there is no reason you should rule out the possibility.

i've been thinking about it as a group of probabilities -
10% likely that i will end up in the bottom 10% of my class, fail at life, and need to choose a different career path
80% likely that i will end up somewhere in the middle and finish my degree at the T20 i chose
10% likely that i will rock out on every test and have reason to consider transferring.

so i know the odds, and since they're more or less in my favor i'm not going to worry about it until i get my first (second?) round of grades.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby Lawl Shcool » Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:49 am

+.5 to the don't think you are going to be able to transfer sentiment, because I started thinking about it half-way through fall semester and never looked back.

My t4 school was pretty supportive. It seemed like they had a good cop/bad cop thing going on, as some administrators would try to talk me out of it and some would be really supportive. However, even the "bad cop" ones still all said that if I got into a really good school that it was a smart move to transfer. Their basic point was that coming from the top of your class anywhere will get you a job, which I do think has some merit. I guess it was my faut to aspire for a big firm and attend a school without any big firm placement in the first place. I am yet to be offerred a scholly to stay, but at this point that is moot anyways.

As for recs, every prof will have gone to a t6 school so they will understand how valuable a top degree is. The formula for getting a good rec is pretty simple: 1) get a good grade in the class (ideally CALI) 2) speak up in class when you have something to say and 3) office hours. If you aren't going to get #1, then 2 and 3 are even more important. It may sound gunnerish, but I enjoyed participating in the class discussion. It kept me more interested and showed the prof that I actually cared. So when I went into office hours to talk about exams/ask questions/ask for a LOR they knew I cared and wasn't only asking because I did well.

Also, remember to get the ball rolling on LORs early, like right after fall grades are released.

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flhealth
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby flhealth » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:17 am

from somebody who was successful in transferring...work for it, but dont expect it (of course you should be working hard anyway)....consider it a "bonus" if you get lucky and can transfer... expect to graduate from your original school... if you're not comfortable with getting a degree from your original school, dont go...ending up on top is 90% luck

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98234872348
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:25 am

PKSebben wrote:
bwv812 wrote:
mistergoft wrote:Don't go to law school intending to transfer.


I know this is the conventional response, but it's very close to saying "don't go to law school intending to do well."

I personally think it's fine to intend to transfer (just as it's fine to intend to work in biglaw, even if the majority of student outside T6 or maybe the T10 won't get it), though it is probably not the best idea to makes plans or assume that you'll be able to transfer, especially if you want to make a large jump.


When you are betting 150-200k on that intent, you are in a world of fucking pain if the one-arm bandit doesn't read 3 cherries after you pull. That's the problem. It's fine to to go in an do your best, but your classmates will have something to say about it. They'll all work just as hard as OP does and are just as smart. It's not a problem you can merely throw work at. There is some luck involved too. I wouldn't bet my future like that.

The conventional response is that you MIGHT do well, but it's a crapshoot and you can't really depend on it. Granted most people got to law school intending to do well and don't, but, don't depend on doing well and PLEASE don't go to LS thinking "well, I go to a shiTTTTTTy school now but I'll do well enough to transfer" GO to a school that you'd be HAPPY graduating from at median. and if no school exists, reevaluate your options.

and this is coming from, as PK can tell you, a person who went to school with the intention of transferring and was successful.

hth.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:51 am

towel42 wrote:I'm walking in knowing that I'll try to transfer....so that said, if you did it (congrats!)

can you give us:

What school you came from?

Were they supportive?

Any particular profs to avoid and/or cultivate relationships with when getting refs?

Thanks!!


I had a bad dream and woke up in a cold smelly sweat with a bad case of swamp-nut.

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bwv812
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby bwv812 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:21 pm

.
Last edited by bwv812 on Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Aeroplane
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby Aeroplane » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:32 pm

bwv812 wrote:And if people should only go to schools they'd be happy at graduating median, then it really should be T6 or bust for most people here (where biglaw is the brass ring); everywhere else biglaw is also a one-armed bandit where the odds favor the house.

I think it's probably over-conservative to say that you should only go to a school where you'd be "happy" at graduating median, but you should only go to a school where you "can deal with" graduating median. If you have a solid go-to backup plan, then dream all the transfer dreams you want.

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sanpiero
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby sanpiero » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:33 pm

betasteve wrote:Look, the point is this: YOu can want to transfer, you can make transferring your motivation, and you can even "plan" on transferring. However, since there is probably a 90%+ chance that you won't—you need to also expect that you will graduate from law school you first got into. If you are NOT ok with that, you shouldn't go to law school.


TY! I'm so sick of hearing the "is it OK to plan to transfer?" debate, I could scream. There is no more to the debate than what betasteve said.

09042014
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:46 pm

Retake the LSAT instead.

09042014
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:51 pm

betasteve wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Retake the LSAT instead.

Note that 0L advice, as here, is particularly fucking awful.


It's a hell of a lot smarter than trying to transfer. You don't need to have done 1L to know that.

bigben
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby bigben » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:03 pm

You can intend to transfer. Just be fully prepared for the possibility that it won't work out. Or that you will transfer somewhere and nonetheless fail to materially increase your job prospects.

bigben
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby bigben » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:22 pm

betasteve wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
betasteve wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Retake the LSAT instead.

Note that 0L advice, as here, is particularly fucking awful.


It's a hell of a lot smarter than trying to transfer. You don't need to have done 1L to know that.

So - your suggestion to take the LSAT again (which impliedly means taken one more time than you have, no matter how many times you have) presumes that you can do better than you did on the LSAT, or that there are not other factors, such as GPA, that prevents going to a higher school.
You advice is just as stupid as advising someone that they should try to transfer.

But my guess is that you were simply trolling. You'll stop that now.


Retaking the LSAT is amazingly credited, even if you have to put off law school for a year. When a few points can mean the difference between full tuition or a full scholarship, or two schools of rather disparate quality, doing your absolute best on the LSAT is of the highest priority. I guess this is all rather obvious.

If you're absolutely certain you cannot do any better, then there is no point in retaking of course. (To be cynical, if less than or equal to the 75th percentiles among tier 3 is really the best you can do, I would suggest re-evaluating your career choice.)

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interalia
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby interalia » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:27 pm

+infinity.

Retaking the LSAT costs 1/400 the cost of a year of law school and cost of living.

Unless you have a 170+ LSAT, retaking is definitely credited.

AmicusCuriae
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby AmicusCuriae » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:28 pm

bigben wrote:Or that you will transfer somewhere and nonetheless fail to materially increase your job prospects.


This is a particularly good point. I transferred to a T14 and know of a number of transfers who don't have jobs. Many of them left scholarships at their old schools for full-price at the T14 and are now in worse financial shape than they would have been. They still have the good degree, but I'm sure a number of them now question the decision to transfer.

bigben
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Re: Successful Transfers, please advise the lowly 0Ls

Postby bigben » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:24 pm

betasteve wrote:
bigben wrote:Retaking the LSAT is amazingly credited, even if you have to put off law school for a year. When a few points can mean the difference between full tuition or a full scholarship, or two schools of rather disparate quality, doing your absolute best on the LSAT is of the highest priority. I guess this is all rather obvious.

If you're absolutely certain you cannot do any better, then there is no point in retaking of course. (To be cynical, if less than or equal to the 75th percentiles among tier 3 is really the best you can do, I would suggest re-evaluating your career choice.)

Except that once you are below the T14, or really the T10 for that matter - getting 1-2 points isn't really going to help you much. YOu are basically trading one regional school for another. I'd agree if you are threshold to the T10 or maybe T14, but this simply isn't the case we are talking about. Your scholarship point has some merit, though. However, a blanket statement to retake the lsat just doesn't account for enough variables for it to be a generally credited piece of advice.

Good point. Which school you are at doesn't matter much beyond T14, but the LSAT is still important for scholarships. So in the event that you (a) can't get/aren't interested in T14 and (b) already have a large scholarship at the regional school of your choice, there isn't any point in increasing your LSAT score even if you could.




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