Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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Hey-O
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Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby Hey-O » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:18 pm

I've read a lot that people say you shouldn't plan to transfer into a better school. Why not? A lot of people treat it as a no brainer but I just don't see the logic. Anyone care to enlighten me?

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jayn3
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby jayn3 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:20 pm

....no matter how awesome you were in undergrad there's no guarantee you're going to be that awesome in ls. go in assuming that everyone in your class will be just as smart as you.....if not much much smarter.

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Grizz
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby Grizz » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:21 pm

jayn3 wrote:....no matter how awesome you were in undergrad there's no guarantee you're going to be that awesome in ls. go in assuming that everyone in your class will be just as smart as you.....if not much much smarter.


This, plus law school exams being unlike any previous exams you've ever taken.

The acceptable TLS mantra is "don't go to any school you wouldn't be happy at median."

reverendt
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby reverendt » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:31 pm

Pretty much what these guys said.

Everybody at law school is smart and works hard. Chances are you'll be somewhere near median.
This does not cut it for a transfer up.
Therefore chances are you won't be able to transfer up.
So....go to a school you wouldn't mind graduating from.
If a transfer opportunity presents itself....bonus.

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doyleoil
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby doyleoil » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:32 pm

reverendt wrote:Everybody at law school is smart


:lol:

tyft

Hey-O
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby Hey-O » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:39 pm

So it is possible to transfer up if you are in the top 10% of your class or so, but stastically not everyone can be in the top %10. And people tend to underestimate law school students intelligence and drive because they are basing on their UG experience where most of the students are slackers?

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JackRyan2005
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby JackRyan2005 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:45 pm

more like everyone thinks they can work harder than everyone else and get into the top 10%, but it doesn't work like that, you can put in more hours in the library than anyone else and still end up outside the top 10% if your methods aren't effective

09042014
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:48 pm

Hey-O wrote:I've read a lot that people say you shouldn't plan to transfer into a better school. Why not? A lot of people treat it as a no brainer but I just don't see the logic. Anyone care to enlighten me?


If you can't grasp the logic behind it, may god have mercy on your soul in law school.

fenway
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby fenway » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:03 pm

Hey-O wrote:So it is possible to transfer up if you are in the top 10% of your class or so, but stastically not everyone can be in the top %10. And people tend to underestimate law school students intelligence and drive because they are basing on their UG experience where most of the students are slackers?



what? no, people underestimate how difficult law school is considering it is graded on a curve relative to a group of peers that was admitted with highly similar academic qualifications. many undergraduate courses are not curved, and most do not follow the format of LS exams, nor do any sufficiently cover LS material. therefore, to come to a supposition that one will perform better than 90% of his or her peers on exams testing subject matter he or she has never seen before is highly irrational. some people will come into law school as projected stars (full ride merit based) but unless you are in that (very) small group, you will roughly fall into one of 3 categories: well rounded (median students), overachievers (+GPA-LSAT), intelligent slackers (+LSAT-GPA). Once LS begins, none of the 3 (and arguably 4) distinctions matter for shit. it's a whole new ball game as it is said. besides, how do you not comprehend that 10% means 1 out of 10 odds? unless you are a degenerate gambler you should see that those chances are nothing to bank on (yet of course something to hope/strive for).

summary: do not go to school planning on transferring. mad dumb yo

12262010
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby 12262010 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:03 pm

some people just suck at law school exams. you could be one of them.

lawschool7777
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby lawschool7777 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:07 pm

ill also add that even if you have what it takes to be in the top 10%, luck really does come into play in law school grades. im top 7%, i got the lowest possible raw score that one could get an A- with in one of my classes. if i had missed one more issue, or just gotten a little nervous and rushed an answer, or slightly misread a fact, or my prof had just been in a slightly more crabby mood than usual when reading my exam, i might not even be in the top 10%. so assuming you really are "top 10% material" (whatever that is), top 10% is still not a guarantee.

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thexfactor
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby thexfactor » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:10 pm

prepare for the worst and hope for the best.



Law school exams are similar to the NFL playoffs. 1 game. Unlike other grad schools which give several exams per class think (NBA playoffs 7 game series), you only get 1 chance in ls. This brings more luck to the table. It is much more likely that I can beat Tiger Woods on 1 hole than if we play 18 rounds of golf.

Also, generally, there isnt a big difference between A-s and B+s. Sometimes getting the higher grade is a matter of one or two extra points.
Last edited by thexfactor on Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:11 pm

thexfactor wrote:prepare for the worst and hope for the best.



Law school exams are similar to the NFL playoffs. 1 game. Unlike other grad schools which give several exams per class think (NBA playoffs 7 game series), you only get 1 exam chance. This brings more luck to the table. It is much more likely that I can beat Tiger Woods on 1 hole than if we play 18 rounds of golf.

Also, generally, there isnt a big difference between A-s and B+s. Sometimes getting the higher grade is a matter of one or two extra points.


That's actually a REALLY good analogy.

lawschool7777
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby lawschool7777 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:14 pm

great analogy.

example of an insane curve...68 raw score = B-, 72 raw score = A...one issue could determine booking the class or falling well below median

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thexfactor
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby thexfactor » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:15 pm

lawschool7777 wrote:ill also add that even if you have what it takes to be in the top 10%, luck really does come into play in law school grades. im top 7%, i got the lowest possible raw score that one could get an A- with in one of my classes. if i had missed one more issue, or just gotten a little nervous and rushed an answer, or slightly misread a fact, or my prof had just been in a slightly more crabby mood than usual when reading my exam, i might not even be in the top 10%. so assuming you really are "top 10% material" (whatever that is), top 10% is still not a guarantee.


Agreed big time.

I screwed up in con law. I misread my exam question and that cost me law review. I was the last person out of the top 10%. Unlike college, you dont get another chance to make it up.

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thexfactor
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby thexfactor » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:16 pm

lawschool7777 wrote:great analogy.

example of an insane curve...68 raw score = B-, 72 raw score = A...one issue could determine booking the class or falling well below median


I got 85 pts in con law. 86 was an A-. Had I mentioned one extra thing, I would probably be on law review right now. (84 was a b).:(

lawschool7777
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby lawschool7777 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:19 pm

so my school take top 7 people in each section for law review, and there are 100 people in each section. i am top 7 percent in the overall class so it should follow that i just made law review. i havent heard yet but im pretty sure i am going to be number 8 in my section. fml.

fenway
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby fenway » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:20 pm

thexfactor wrote:
lawschool7777 wrote:great analogy.

example of an insane curve...68 raw score = B-, 72 raw score = A...one issue could determine booking the class or falling well below median


I got 85 pts in con law. 86 was an A-. Had I mentioned one extra thing, I would probably be on law review right now. (84 was a b).:(



god damn. and people think the LSAT is bad lol. it just shows how smart the overall class is--the measure of separation is so thin

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thexfactor
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby thexfactor » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:21 pm

lawschool7777 wrote:so my school take top 7 people in each section for law review, and there are 100 people in each section. i am top 7 percent in the overall class so it should follow that i just made law review. i havent heard yet but im pretty sure i am going to be number 8 in my section. fml.


congrats join the club. I should make a club. The last 4 out club.
Its just like the NCAA tourney and selection sunday.

Anyways, you should be proud of your accomplishments though. Being 11% is still very impressive.

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thexfactor
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby thexfactor » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:22 pm

fenway wrote:
thexfactor wrote:
lawschool7777 wrote:great analogy.

example of an insane curve...68 raw score = B-, 72 raw score = A...one issue could determine booking the class or falling well below median


I got 85 pts in con law. 86 was an A-. Had I mentioned one extra thing, I would probably be on law review right now. (84 was a b).:(



god damn. and people think the LSAT is bad lol. it just shows how smart the overall class is--the measure of separation is so thin


or dumb :lol:
That's how life is. It's like playing golf. Sometimes you get bounces that you don't deserve. Other times you get shafted.

lawschool7777
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby lawschool7777 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:24 pm

thanks! and i went from top 25% first semester to top 7% after factoring in second semester grades..so ive had enough luck for one yr, itd be ridiculous to expect any more freebies/good vibes at this point

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thexfactor
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby thexfactor » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:26 pm

lawschool7777 wrote:thanks! and i went from top 25% first semester to top 7% after factoring in second semester grades..so ive had enough luck for one yr, itd be ridiculous to expect any more freebies/good vibes at this point


dude you are just like me. 1st semester around 20%tile. Second around 5-7%tile.
After I took my exams, I thought I wasnt even going to make deans list this semester.
I was shocked when I got my grades.

lawschool7777
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby lawschool7777 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:29 pm

yea..i really thought someone was playing some sick joke on me..or we'd get an email from the school the next day apologizing for the mis-entered grades...esp bc i didnt feel any better after exams than i did first semester

are you applying to transfer? if so, how frantic are you right now? unlike people who were smart all yr round, i assumed i didnt have what it took to transfer so i didnt even look at apps. since grades came out, ive been rushing to put it all together.

subprimeJD
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby subprimeJD » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:30 pm

Here's my personal story:

Went to a TTTT, thought I could transfer up to a tier 2. Got ranked in the median of my class my first year. Studied my ass off, briefed most cases, and put in crazy hours during finals. Still ranked in the dead median.

After the first year mediocre performance, I knew that law review, moot court, and transferring were out of the question. So I did what any reasonable person would do and basically learned how to trade stocks, bonds, and currencies. I actually made some bank my 3L year. Basically missed as many classes as possible, didnt read a single case ever again (used great outlines that included case briefs) and I actually MUCH BETTER THAN MY FIRST YEAR! I started getting top third and in some classes top 10 percent. But at that point it didnt matter anymore as I was doomed to non top 10 percenter, which in tier 4 world means you better hope you get a couple slip and fall cases quickstyle. Mind you there are tons of solo's running around out there praying for "that one case".

So bascially, I learned that the less I analyzed and understood the law, the better I did at writing the exams. Its very possible to overthink what the law means. A few cursory reads of the rules is sufficient in real practice anyways.

Im a pretty sharp guy, can spot market trends weeks in advance, have successfully shorted some of the biggest names in finance, and can write a decent motion for judgment on the pleadings. Its hard to transfer that the point.

Peace

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thexfactor
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Re: Everyone says don't plan on transfering up...Why?

Postby thexfactor » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:34 pm

lawschool7777 wrote:yea..i really thought someone was playing some sick joke on me..or we'd get an email from the school the next day apologizing for the mis-entered grades...esp bc i didnt feel any better after exams than i did first semester

are you applying to transfer? if so, how frantic are you right now? unlike people who were smart all yr round, i assumed i didnt have what it took to transfer so i didnt even look at apps. since grades came out, ive been rushing to put it all together.


Yea. What ranked school do you go to? What schools are you looking at?
My heart is basically set on transferring. I think i am good to go at washu...... knock on wood. I go to a 40-60 ranked school.


I thought the same way. I actually studied a lot less 2nd semester. More focused studying and less time wasting. IE reading and briefing cases.




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