1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

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handlebutton
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1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby handlebutton » Sun May 30, 2010 11:06 am

An administration person at Northwestern declined to give me any information about historic graduation percentiles, or any other information pertaining to exact 25%, 10%, etc. GPA points, and said it "varies by term."

This is not helpful for my application to HYS, and I need to inform them with something more than my nominal GPA. I expect to have a 3.85 GPA as a 1L.

1) What is a 3.85 at the 1L mark at NW Law?
2) What can I say on the HYS applications to help them understand my class standing?

The Yahoo transfer apps support my hope that if I am at top 10% of a t14 school, I have a good shot at HYS.

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thesealocust
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby thesealocust » Sun May 30, 2010 11:38 am

edited / never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

handlebutton
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby handlebutton » Sun May 30, 2010 11:46 am

so how do I figure out what a 3.85 at Northwestern is!?

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby Sauer Grapes » Sun May 30, 2010 11:50 am

....
Last edited by Sauer Grapes on Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Sun May 30, 2010 12:12 pm

Sauer Grapes wrote:It looks like you are probably between the top 18% and 30%.

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/academi ... olicy.html


how you figure that? (curious, not combative).

i find it better online, to simply tell people your tone, rather than have them assume one.

Edit: yeah, see below. this is why i asked. Looking at the averages, given the high and low thresholds for the curve for each grade, it seems like they curve right around a B+. my school curves to a 3.35 and given the other data points we have a 3.85 would be very very high. probably right around top 5%.
Last edited by let/them/eat/cake on Sun May 30, 2010 12:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

handlebutton
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby handlebutton » Sun May 30, 2010 12:18 pm

You're saying there is a possibility that 30% of students at Northwestern have over a 3.85?
What is your answer based on? How are you reading that website?

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby Sauer Grapes » Sun May 30, 2010 7:37 pm

....
Last edited by Sauer Grapes on Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mal
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby Mal » Sun May 30, 2010 8:03 pm

There is no way 3.85 is outside the top20% given that grading policy. To be so all the A's would basically need to be going to the same people.

Basically, don't listen to Sauer Grapes.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby Sauer Grapes » Sun May 30, 2010 8:33 pm

....
Last edited by Sauer Grapes on Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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rayiner
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby rayiner » Sun May 30, 2010 9:22 pm

Saur Grapes, that's the per class curve. The overall 1L GPA involve 4 grades ok that curve, averaged together, and there will be regression to the mean in that calculation.

At NU you can't tell precisely by design. Anecdotally, Coif tends to be 3.88-3.89 at graduation, and accounting for float in 2L/3L, you're probably just around the 10% mark. As someone just pointed out, Harvard knows that.

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Sun May 30, 2010 9:26 pm

Sauer Grapes wrote:
Mal wrote:There is no way 3.85 is outside the top20% given that grading policy. To be so all the A's would basically need to be going to the same people.

Basically, don't listen to Sauer Grapes.

Maybe I estimated low for him again, but Northwestern does give A+'s, and they count them at 4.33. Also, Magna Cum Laude is a 3.97 and Cum Laude is 3.65 and at least the top 30%, meaning that top 30% is usually around a 3.65, but can fall above a 3.65. There is no guarantee he is top 20%, but as I said in my previous post, he probably is. In fact, in all likelihood, he is probably between 10-15%iles. That being said, since there is no way to be sure, why is he even asking the question?


given those magna and cum laude percentiles, sauer's estimates don't seem so off-base. my school's cum laude is also top 30%, which makes me think this school prob has their magna cum laude right around top 10% (using my school as a reference point seems valid enough here anyway). if that's the case, 10% being at 3.97 would be wildly different than where it is for me (3.67 = top 10% after 6 semesters), and so i his predictions aren't wild.

that being said, this is all ridiculous. why can't northwestern just give u 2 datapoints and tell u to have fun with a z-table? even if it changes year to year it doesn't change that much. if they tell u "o it varies by term" say "ok, well then i'd like the final percentiles for median, and top 10 and/or top 30, for the last three graduating classes". why are these offices so goddamn difficult, isn't this their jobbbbbbb.

/rant

Edit: whatever rayiner said. i think i remember him knowing his way around this kind of stuff. on that note, maybe rayiner can help me w some z-table help when my grades come out in a week.

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thesealocust
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby thesealocust » Sun May 30, 2010 9:31 pm

tl;dr
Last edited by thesealocust on Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby vanwinkle » Sun May 30, 2010 9:44 pm

thesealocust wrote:Fuck rayiner, I'm the z-table guy from last semester *pouty, self-entitled z-table face*

This is what you get for devoting yourself to other projects during the spring semester. :D

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taw856
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby taw856 » Sun May 30, 2010 9:51 pm

handlebutton wrote:NW Law.


handlebutton wrote:Yahoo transfer apps.


And this question was taken seriously?

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rayiner
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby rayiner » Sun May 30, 2010 10:09 pm

let/them/eat/cake wrote:
Sauer Grapes wrote:
Mal wrote:There is no way 3.85 is outside the top20% given that grading policy. To be so all the A's would basically need to be going to the same people.

Basically, don't listen to Sauer Grapes.

Maybe I estimated low for him again, but Northwestern does give A+'s, and they count them at 4.33. Also, Magna Cum Laude is a 3.97 and Cum Laude is 3.65 and at least the top 30%, meaning that top 30% is usually around a 3.65, but can fall above a 3.65. There is no guarantee he is top 20%, but as I said in my previous post, he probably is. In fact, in all likelihood, he is probably between 10-15%iles. That being said, since there is no way to be sure, why is he even asking the question?


given those magna and cum laude percentiles, sauer's estimates don't seem so off-base. my school's cum laude is also top 30%, which makes me think this school prob has their magna cum laude right around top 10% (using my school as a reference point seems valid enough here anyway). if that's the case, 10% being at 3.97 would be wildly different than where it is for me (3.67 = top 10% after 6 semesters), and so i his predictions aren't wild.

that being said, this is all ridiculous. why can't northwestern just give u 2 datapoints and tell u to have fun with a z-table? even if it changes year to year it doesn't change that much. if they tell u "o it varies by term" say "ok, well then i'd like the final percentiles for median, and top 10 and/or top 30, for the last three graduating classes". why are these offices so goddamn difficult, isn't this their jobbbbbbb.

/rant

Edit: whatever rayiner said. i think i remember him knowing his way around this kind of stuff. on that note, maybe rayiner can help me w some z-table help when my grades come out in a week.


NU's magna is like top 2-3% or something.

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Sun May 30, 2010 10:14 pm

thesealocust wrote:
let/them/eat/cake wrote:Edit: whatever rayiner said. i think i remember him knowing his way around this kind of stuff. on that note, maybe rayiner can help me w some z-table help when my grades come out in a week.


Fuck rayiner, I'm the z-table guy from last semester *pouty, self-entitled z-table face*

NU's curve is crazy, but it's even crazier after 1L when many (most?) classes are un-curved. The grad cutoffs are almost meaningless. But it doesn't matter, because you don't have to hold Harvad's hand and explain it. They know what they need to know.


ahhhh it is all coming back to me now. well, maybe sealocust can help me w some z-table stuff when my grades come out in a week lol

also ^ top 2-3% for magna? sheesh.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun May 30, 2010 10:50 pm

thesealocust wrote:
let/them/eat/cake wrote:Edit: whatever rayiner said. i think i remember him knowing his way around this kind of stuff. on that note, maybe rayiner can help me w some z-table help when my grades come out in a week.


Fuck rayiner, I'm the z-table guy from last semester *pouty, self-entitled z-table face*


Oh, yes. Those were the days! I endorse sealocust's skill at mathematics. He is fast and accurate, but be warned: he's honest. If you are bottom 5%, he'll tell you. :lol: (I swore he wasn't going near my grades after that, but the desire to know was too great.)

stapledtwice
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby stapledtwice » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:32 pm

Bump for: how the heck do we gauge where we lie post-1L at N?
Rayiner? Other mathletes? Guesses for where a 3.8, 3.9, or 4 lie?
Hope everyone is happy, whether for grades, summer, or whatever.

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rayiner
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby rayiner » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:56 pm

stapledtwice wrote:Bump for: how the heck do we gauge where we lie post-1L at N?
Rayiner? Other mathletes? Guesses for where a 3.8, 3.9, or 4 lie?
Hope everyone is happy, whether for grades, summer, or whatever.


After 1L, use these marks:

3.35 - median
3.5 - top 1/3
3.65 - top 1/4
3.85 - top 10%

These may not be precisely right (there is a lot of slack in our curve so it varies year-to-year) but this is how you should bid.

stapledtwice
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Re: 1L Northwestern GPA versus class standing question

Postby stapledtwice » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:04 pm

Thank you! Career services should tip you. :)

On a bidding note, any thoughts on grade snobby (litigation) firms and 3.9+ GPAs?
Does it come down to fit/interview at that point, or do they parse the grades on a really fine level?




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