Help A'nold think clearly.........

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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General Tso
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby General Tso » Tue May 25, 2010 4:57 am

articulably suspect wrote:
I will say this about Davis, irrespective to the increasing tuition, they are only have one other ABA school in the region for which they compete(T2/3 McGeorge.) McGeorge grads by and large do not hold a candle to Davis grads. Generally, in a normal economy, kids from higher or similarly ranked(to Davis) law schools were not flocking to Sacramento. I'm not sure if this is still the case. However, Sacramento doesn't quite have the QOL of say Portland or San Diego. IOW Sacramento is most likely not going to be a T14's third fourth or eight choice, IMO. I feel the same can be said for those seeking internships and employment coming out of USC and UCLA as well.

If you have no problem working in local government in the Sacramento area or the surrounding rural areas, Davis is a solid choice. I will say this, albeit anecdotally, that the majority of the lawyers in local government seem to hail from T2/3's, FWIW.


Everyone seems to think that Davis' location near Sacramento makes it the better choice for government work over Hastings, yet Hastings placed 17% of its most recent class in government compared to 10% for Davis.

Danteshek
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby Danteshek » Tue May 25, 2010 7:14 am

If you really want to be a prosecutor, then don't transfer. No point in taking on more debt. School attended doesn't really matter. You can be a DA anywhere in the country with from any school. Of course, I doubt the prosecutor idea is anything more than a fallback option for you, which will make it difficult for you to convince other prosecutors that prosecution is truly your desired career path.

If you feel you must transfer and you still want to be a prosecutor, then I suggest you go where the crime is (Chicago, LA etc...).

upgrade
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby upgrade » Tue May 25, 2010 8:22 am

A'nold wrote:
upgrade wrote:
A'nold wrote:While I would love to attend UT, it basically only accepts in-state transfers.


Where did you hear this from? I got in as an out-of-state student. The admissions office had a transfer from the prior year call me after my acceptance. He transferred from a T3 in California and had never been to Texas.


I've just heard a million time that it is nearly impossible to transfer in from out-of-state. Were you a t3 transfer? Did you have any connection to Texas at all? Rank? You can pm all of this if you want to. Appreciate the info.


Well, what you've heard is wrong. Texas schools, I believe, have to enroll a certain percentage of Texas residents, but I do not think the small number of transfer students admitted will disrupt that amount. I'm also not sure if transfers are even considered in the Texas resident requirement.

I was from a T2 school top 5%. The two people I know who were admitted as transfers both were out-of-state, without ties to the state, and one was from a T3.

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GATORTIM
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby GATORTIM » Tue May 25, 2010 8:39 am

where is your current school located (I'm going to shoot for CA based on your TLS name)? I can tell that you don't want to be too specific, but can you at least divulge the state or region? Good luck to you as I find many of your posts a refreshing break from norm here. Oh yeah, I too will be attending a TTT so I will be following your "story" closely. Good luck to you.

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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby CMR » Tue May 25, 2010 10:57 am

If your intent is to practice in the Pac NW, once outside of the T14 and UW you're quite possibly better off going to a state flagship like Oregon and saving money (COL especially) than someplace like Emory (IMO).

UW is definitely a nearly impossible nut to crack (3 to 5 transfer hopefuls accepted out of 60 applicants per year I think); that and UMich are my two primary hopefuls.

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Tue May 25, 2010 2:56 pm

Danteshek wrote:If you really want to be a prosecutor, then don't transfer. No point in taking on more debt. School attended doesn't really matter. You can be a DA anywhere in the country with from any school. Of course, I doubt the prosecutor idea is anything more than a fallback option for you, which will make it difficult for you to convince other prosecutors that prosecution is truly your desired career path.

If you feel you must transfer and you still want to be a prosecutor, then I suggest you go where the crime is (Chicago, LA etc...).


Thanks but why did you say the bolded above? That's been the plan the entire time w/ a firm job as a "fallback" lol.

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Tue May 25, 2010 3:02 pm

GATORTIM wrote:where is your current school located (I'm going to shoot for CA based on your TLS name)? I can tell that you don't want to be too specific, but can you at least divulge the state or region? Good luck to you as I find many of your posts a refreshing break from norm here. Oh yeah, I too will be attending a TTT so I will be following your "story" closely. Good luck to you.


Thanks, I will keep you posted. Region is Mt. West.

CMR: getting a job is more important to me than region, but if I was able to choose it would be PNW. However, I'd move to Brazil to get a good job.

Danteshek
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby Danteshek » Tue May 25, 2010 3:05 pm

A'nold wrote:
Danteshek wrote:If you really want to be a prosecutor, then don't transfer. No point in taking on more debt. School attended doesn't really matter. You can be a DA anywhere in the country with from any school. Of course, I doubt the prosecutor idea is anything more than a fallback option for you, which will make it difficult for you to convince other prosecutors that prosecution is truly your desired career path.

If you feel you must transfer and you still want to be a prosecutor, then I suggest you go where the crime is (Chicago, LA etc...).


Thanks but why did you say the bolded above? That's been the plan the entire time w/ a firm job as a "fallback" lol.


Oh. I guess I just find it odd that you are so hot to transfer, but plan on being a prosecutor. I also find it a little strange that you seem to be looking at schools all over the country, and not focusing on a particular region. So, if you are primarily looking at the Northwest (and are serious about it), Oregon, L&C and Seattle U. all need to be at the top of your list in case you don't get into UW.

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Tue May 25, 2010 3:11 pm

Danteshek wrote:
A'nold wrote:
Danteshek wrote:If you really want to be a prosecutor, then don't transfer. No point in taking on more debt. School attended doesn't really matter. You can be a DA anywhere in the country with from any school. Of course, I doubt the prosecutor idea is anything more than a fallback option for you, which will make it difficult for you to convince other prosecutors that prosecution is truly your desired career path.

If you feel you must transfer and you still want to be a prosecutor, then I suggest you go where the crime is (Chicago, LA etc...).


Thanks but why did you say the bolded above? That's been the plan the entire time w/ a firm job as a "fallback" lol.


Oh. I guess I just find it odd that you are so hot to transfer, but plan on being a prosecutor. I also find it a little strange that you seem to be looking at schools all over the country, and not focusing on a particular region. So, if you are primarily looking at the Northwest (and are serious about it), Oregon, L&C and Seattle U. all need to be at the top of your list in case you don't get into UW.


I would agree if I HAD to have the PNW. However, I just want to go to the best school that will land me a job in any region.

Danteshek
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby Danteshek » Tue May 25, 2010 3:14 pm

I don't think that's the best approach. Where did you go to high school? Where do your parents and most of your friends live? IMO that should dictate where you go.

upgrade
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby upgrade » Tue May 25, 2010 3:25 pm

A'nold wrote:I would agree if I HAD to have the PNW. However, I just want to go to the best school that will land me a job in any region.


Any region? If you're transferring for portability and optionality, your choices are limited to a handful of schools just outside the T14. Going to a school in the 30-50 range probably won't lend much of an advantage in "any market" other the school's primary region. This is just like making the initial choice of where to attend law school, if you aren't going to a top school you should be attending a school in the region where you want (not must) to work.

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ozarkhack
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby ozarkhack » Tue May 25, 2010 3:39 pm

Leave Willamette U(??), come to Davis. And I'll buy you beers in exchange for 1L study tips.

That said: If you're 100% on going into government/PI, you owe it to self to compare Davis v. Hastings LRAP/PICAP before you pull trigger on that.

Davis might change its LRAP later to work w/IBR. They are re-evaluating the program this year (which I assume they do yearly anyway). But no guarantees.

Hastings' does tie into IBR. And if it's as good in reality as on paper, it could save you many many thousands of post-grad dollars every year your first 10 years compared to simply going it alone with IBR.

Hastings' PICAP covers earners up to $70K. Given 1st-year pay scales I've seen for ADAs/county attorneys/PDs in Sacto area, you'll qualify and need pay something like only $150-$200/month thanks to the IBR/PICAP combo. That compares to more than $500 w/IBR alone. .... After 5-7 years, PICAP covers the entirety of your IBR payment (which of course are forgiven after 10 years of qualifying employment). Sweet, sweet deal.

Anyway. Go California, sez I.

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Tue May 25, 2010 3:45 pm

ozarkhack wrote:Leave Willamette U(??), come to Davis. And I'll buy you beers in exchange for 1L study tips.

That said: If you're 100% on going into government/PI, you owe it to self to compare Davis v. Hastings LRAP/PICAP before you pull trigger on that.

Davis might change its LRAP later to work w/IBR. They are re-evaluating the program this year (which I assume they do yearly anyway). But no guarantees.

Hastings' does tie into IBR. And if it's as good in reality as on paper, it could save you many many thousands of post-grad dollars every year your first 10 years compared to simply going it alone with IBR.

Hastings' PICAP covers earners up to $70K. Given 1st-year pay scales I've seen for ADAs/county attorneys/PDs in Sacto area, you'll qualify and need pay something like only $150-$200/month thanks to the IBR/PICAP combo. That compares to more than $500 w/IBR alone. .... After 5-7 years, PICAP covers the entirety of your IBR payment (which of course are forgiven after 10 years of qualifying employment). Sweet, sweet deal.

Anyway. Go California, sez I.


This is EXACTLY the kind of stuff I want to hear. I will definitely look into this. Thanks a bunch. :)

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ozarkhack
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby ozarkhack » Tue May 25, 2010 3:56 pm

A'nold wrote:This is EXACTLY the kind of stuff I want to hear. I will definitely look into this. Thanks a bunch. :)


Certainly. And, not that you couldn't yourself, but ...

Hastings PICAP (LinkRemoved).

Davis LRAP.

This consumed me for some time a few weeks back. I'm on Hastings' WL, but I'm 99.9% sure and thrilled to be going to Davis and will try to push for change from within, if possible. Davis admins swear up and down their program is better (and cheaper??), but I just can't see it.

I figure, though, that since all the other UCs** now leverage IBR somehow into their LRAP, maybe Davis will follow suit. ESPECIALLY since Davis fancies itself a school with a giant public-interest focus.


**I could be wrong. But I recall thinking on this issue that Boalt>Hastings >UCLA>>>Davis.

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Tue May 25, 2010 5:06 pm

ozarkhack wrote:
A'nold wrote:This is EXACTLY the kind of stuff I want to hear. I will definitely look into this. Thanks a bunch. :)


Certainly. And, not that you couldn't yourself, but ...

Hastings PICAP (LinkRemoved).

Davis LRAP.

This consumed me for some time a few weeks back. I'm on Hastings' WL, but I'm 99.9% sure and thrilled to be going to Davis and will try to push for change from within, if possible. Davis admins swear up and down their program is better (and cheaper??), but I just can't see it.

I figure, though, that since all the other UCs** now leverage IBR somehow into their LRAP, maybe Davis will follow suit. ESPECIALLY since Davis fancies itself a school with a giant public-interest focus.


**I could be wrong. But I recall thinking on this issue that Boalt>Hastings >UCLA>>>Davis.


Thanks!

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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby solidsnake » Tue May 25, 2010 5:10 pm

The evolution of A'nold:

1. decides to attend flagship T3 with hopes of becoming a state prosecutor.

2. gets great grades 1st semester; while indoctrinated by TLS propaganda, decides he must transfer to a t14 to get teh preftige and then teh BIGLAW.

3. gets somewhat less than great grades 2d semester, realizes that teh BIGLAW is out but residual effects of the transfer bug linger on.

4. decides to attend flagship T1 with hopes of becoming a state prosecutor.

:)

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Tue May 25, 2010 5:18 pm

solidsnake wrote:The evolution of A'nold:

1. decides to attend flagship T3 with hopes of becoming a state prosecutor.

2. gets great grades 1st semester; while indoctrinated by TLS propaganda, decides he must transfer to a t14 to get teh preftige and then teh BIGLAW.

3. gets somewhat less than great grades 2d semester, realizes that teh BIGLAW is out but residual effects of the transfer bug linger on.

4. decides to attend flagship T1 with hopes of becoming a state prosecutor.

:)



Sort of. It's more like:
1. Same but with hopes of transferring (more like plans but not public due to stigma)
2. 1st semester grades in line w/ expectations and even a chance at t14 which was freaking awesome AND wife talks to me about the possibility of biglaw, which I was and am very skeptical about.
3. Grades go down by a little, but top 14 looks like a more distant but not impossible feat. A'nold and A'nold's wife agree that biglaw is out of question, even if it is still a possibility.
4. Not really. I'd go to any really awesome school that places well in an area, with the intention of becoming a prosecutor BUT is open to anything as long as it is not homelessness.

solidsnake
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby solidsnake » Tue May 25, 2010 5:23 pm

A'nold wrote:
solidsnake wrote:The evolution of A'nold:

1. decides to attend flagship T3 with hopes of becoming a state prosecutor.

2. gets great grades 1st semester; while indoctrinated by TLS propaganda, decides he must transfer to a t14 to get teh preftige and then teh BIGLAW.

3. gets somewhat less than great grades 2d semester, realizes that teh BIGLAW is out but residual effects of the transfer bug linger on.

4. decides to attend flagship T1 with hopes of becoming a state prosecutor.

:)





Sort of. It's more like:
1. Same but with hopes of transferring (more like plans but not public due to stigma)
2. 1st semester grades in line w/ expectations and even a chance at t14 which was freaking awesome AND wife talks to me about the possibility of biglaw, which I was and am very skeptical about.
3. Grades go down by a little, but top 14 looks like a more distant but not impossible feat. A'nold and A'nold's wife agree that biglaw is out of question, even if it is still a possibility.
4. Not really. I'd go to any really awesome school that places well in an area, with the intention of becoming a prosecutor BUT is open to anything as long as it is not homelessness.


Does your school not place well into the DA's office? I can't imagine that a top10% student like yourself would have problems placing. I have high school friends that were median at a T4 in my hometown that are now in the DA's office.
Last edited by solidsnake on Tue May 25, 2010 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Danteshek
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby Danteshek » Tue May 25, 2010 5:27 pm

Sorry, but I agree with the previous poster. There is absolutely no need to transfer if you want to be a prosecutor. Staying where you are and being on law review will be more than enough. DOJ Honors is even a possibility if that's what you want.

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romothesavior
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby romothesavior » Tue May 25, 2010 5:34 pm

I actually agree with this advice. Most prosecutors and PDs offices are full of T3 and T4 degrees. A transfer up may help your shot at a prestigious prosecution job (DOJ or big city DA), but I think you could work for a state's attorneys office with your T3 degree. A transfer may be beneficial, however, if you really hate your area and you want to live elsewhere. State's attorney's offices (at least those I'm familiar with) are very regional.

articulably suspect
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby articulably suspect » Tue May 25, 2010 7:58 pm

A'nold wrote:
articulably suspect wrote:A'nold:

Yes, some of that is going on, which you should, I assume you have, considered. However, the internships are just a prevalent as they once were, I believe. From what I’ve heard and common sense will prevail, those positions that cost the government no money would not be undercut. There’s no doubt about it, things haven’t bounced back in CA. Hiring is definitely not back to where it once was, but people are still getting hired and a Davis grad with a documented interest would most certainly be competitive. You have two years+ before a county will even accept your application at a DA's Office anyway.

I guess what I’m saying is...the intern/externships are still there and hopefully the hiring will be too, once you have passed the bar. In a normal economy, a Davis grad would not struggle finding government jobs in the Sacramento area.
Most of the local and state agencies allow you to intern during the semester and in the summer too, I’m sure you know this. Anyway, at this time, I do not consider Davis and Hastings to be in a similar boat, regarding government employment.

What are you doing this summer? My experience is that networking counts for a lot, I know, trite. There are things you can do that will make you stand out.


Well, my internship this summer is not at a DA's office but I will be joining any clinics that are crim law related as well as seeking internships at DA's offices at whatever school I transfer to, so, I think I should still be o.k. in that regard. I just wonder whether it would be worth the risk to try a mid level CA school when there may be other areas of the country where I would have a better chance of getting hired, then maybe later I can move back, unless I like the area or something.


Yeah, if you don't mind living elsewhere, go for the school that will increase your employment opportunities. That said, if Davis' location is ideal, short and long term, l maybe it is still worth the "risk?"

articulably suspect
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby articulably suspect » Tue May 25, 2010 8:06 pm

General Tso wrote:
articulably suspect wrote:
I will say this about Davis, irrespective to the increasing tuition, they are only have one other ABA school in the region for which they compete(T2/3 McGeorge.) McGeorge grads by and large do not hold a candle to Davis grads. Generally, in a normal economy, kids from higher or similarly ranked(to Davis) law schools were not flocking to Sacramento. I'm not sure if this is still the case. However, Sacramento doesn't quite have the QOL of say Portland or San Diego. IOW Sacramento is most likely not going to be a T14's third fourth or eight choice, IMO. I feel the same can be said for those seeking internships and employment coming out of USC and UCLA as well.

If you have no problem working in local government in the Sacramento area or the surrounding rural areas, Davis is a solid choice. I will say this, albeit anecdotally, that the majority of the lawyers in local government seem to hail from T2/3's, FWIW.


Everyone seems to think that Davis' location near Sacramento makes it the better choice for government work over Hastings, yet Hastings placed 17% of its most recent class in government compared to 10% for Davis.


I didn’t mean to suggest Davis was a better choice for those seeking government work, but the differences in competition between Sacramento and the Bay Area is something to consider.

convicted
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby convicted » Tue May 25, 2010 8:18 pm

.
Last edited by convicted on Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Tue May 25, 2010 9:11 pm

convicted wrote:Maybe it's time to just face up to the fact that you belong in a TTT?


Maybe, though I am sorry about your tiny pink <median grades bro.

Anyway, I was going to say something about this earlier but am not sure if I did. I also want to transfer to go to a better school for the sake of going to a better school. I know I will get crap for this but I really want to be proud graduating from my law school and not feel a twinge of embarassment when I tell people where I went. O.k., I know I just lost points with a lot of people on here, but I've always wanted to transfer and now that I have the chance I just feel weird about staying. I do like the points people have made irt staying though, so thank you all for that.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby megaTTTron » Tue May 25, 2010 9:14 pm

A'nold wrote:
convicted wrote:Maybe it's time to just face up to the fact that you belong in a TTT?


Maybe, though I am sorry about your tiny pink <median grades bro.

Anyway, I was going to say something about this earlier but am not sure if I did. I also want to transfer to go to a better school for the sake of going to a better school. I know I will get crap for this but I really want to be proud graduating from my law school and not feel a twinge of embarassment when I tell people where I went. O.k., I know I just lost points with a lot of people on here, but I've always wanted to transfer and now that I have the chance I just feel weird about staying. I do like the points people have made irt staying though, so thank you all for that.


That's a legit reason. Forget what anyone says, it's your life, you're the one living it, not them. (except maybe your wife, lol, her opinion may count).




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