Help A'nold think clearly.........

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apper123
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby apper123 » Wed May 26, 2010 3:21 pm

why do you guys waste time replying to trolls?

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Wed May 26, 2010 3:27 pm

apper123 wrote:Hey A'nold,

You need to transfer. You want to, it seems your family is with you in this and you aren't going to be happy staying where you are. You WILL get in somewhere, and I, personally, still think GULC is your best option. If you want, feel free to send me any of your personal statements, and I'm more than willing to look them over and help you out. Of anyone on these forums, I'm pulling hardest for you because your zeal and passion to go to a top law school is unmatched.

And no, I do not think it is at all unreasonable to want to go to a "good school" for the sake of going to a good school. I do think doing it just for the sake of prestige-whoring is bad, but I know you want it for more than that, so I'm not worried.

I'm still pretty convinced we'll be getting lunch on Mondays at GULC next year, as we've discussed previously.


Thanks so much apper, I appreciate it. I would love to be getting lunch at GULC next year, haha.

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Matthies
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby Matthies » Wed May 26, 2010 3:49 pm

If you want to go the prosecutor route then my advice would be pick a school in the city where you want to work. I don't know how it works in other cities, but here you pretty much have to intern and for most of your 3L year to have a shot. They don't hire folks based on resumes. Second you chances of big law are not out, if you listen to what I've said in the past about the power of networking you can bypass the entire OCI stuff and get hired on by a partner working directly under them.

Sorry to hear about your grades, but this won't be the first time you will have ups and downs, law grades are pretty random sometimes, and it's going to happen again over the next two years. Do you best to make yourself a good candaite on paper, but don't focus all that energy and forget to make connections. Who you know beats where you go, trust me on this. You'll be fine. transfer to a school in a decent sized market where you would like to live, start making contacts now and by 3L you won't be worrying about having to find a job.

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Wed May 26, 2010 4:00 pm

Matthies wrote:If you want to go the prosecutor route then my advice would be pick a school in the city where you want to work. I don't know how it works in other cities, but here you pretty much have to intern and for most of your 3L year to have a shot. They don't hire folks based on resumes. Second you chances of big law are not out, if you listen to what I've said in the past about the power of networking you can bypass the entire OCI stuff and get hired on by a partner working directly under them.

Sorry to hear about your grades, but this won't be the first time you will have ups and downs, law grades are pretty random sometimes, and it's going to happen again over the next two years. Do you best to make yourself a good candaite on paper, but don't focus all that energy and forget to make connections. Who you know beats where you go, trust me on this. You'll be fine. transfer to a school in a decent sized market where you would like to live, start making contacts now and by 3L you won't be worrying about having to find a job.


Thanks Matthies. The bolded is the plan as of now. In your experience, how many years would someone usually have to work to be able to land a job in a different market?

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Matthies
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby Matthies » Wed May 26, 2010 4:16 pm

A'nold wrote:
Matthies wrote:If you want to go the prosecutor route then my advice would be pick a school in the city where you want to work. I don't know how it works in other cities, but here you pretty much have to intern and for most of your 3L year to have a shot. They don't hire folks based on resumes. Second you chances of big law are not out, if you listen to what I've said in the past about the power of networking you can bypass the entire OCI stuff and get hired on by a partner working directly under them.

Sorry to hear about your grades, but this won't be the first time you will have ups and downs, law grades are pretty random sometimes, and it's going to happen again over the next two years. Do you best to make yourself a good candaite on paper, but don't focus all that energy and forget to make connections. Who you know beats where you go, trust me on this. You'll be fine. transfer to a school in a decent sized market where you would like to live, start making contacts now and by 3L you won't be worrying about having to find a job.


Thanks Matthies. The bolded is the plan as of now. In your experience, how many years would someone usually have to work to be able to land a job in a different market?


Changing markets is tough because of the way licensing works and the nature of the legal business. To change markets, and by here I'm assuming you mean states, you will need to either work for 3,5 or 7 years in a state that offers reciprocity with the state you're in (not all do) or take the bar again.

Likewise if you're working seven years in one state you either on or off the partner track by then at a firm, you have established contacts in the legal field, been promoted with the government or have a large number of clients in your own firm. Walking away from that does not often make sense. You will be starting over in a new city with no contacts and no book of biz. Being a great lawyer is not usually enough for a firm in another state to hire a lawyer with 7 years experience, being really good at what you do is a rep you had in the old state, what the new state wants from a 7 year associate is a book of biz. A really shitty lower who is a good people person with lots of clients is worth ten times a good lawyer with no clients to a firm. hence changing markets is risky since you give up allot of what makes your successful in the old market.

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Wed May 26, 2010 4:44 pm

Matthies wrote:
A'nold wrote:
Matthies wrote:If you want to go the prosecutor route then my advice would be pick a school in the city where you want to work. I don't know how it works in other cities, but here you pretty much have to intern and for most of your 3L year to have a shot. They don't hire folks based on resumes. Second you chances of big law are not out, if you listen to what I've said in the past about the power of networking you can bypass the entire OCI stuff and get hired on by a partner working directly under them.

Sorry to hear about your grades, but this won't be the first time you will have ups and downs, law grades are pretty random sometimes, and it's going to happen again over the next two years. Do you best to make yourself a good candaite on paper, but don't focus all that energy and forget to make connections. Who you know beats where you go, trust me on this. You'll be fine. transfer to a school in a decent sized market where you would like to live, start making contacts now and by 3L you won't be worrying about having to find a job.


Thanks Matthies. The bolded is the plan as of now. In your experience, how many years would someone usually have to work to be able to land a job in a different market?


Changing markets is tough because of the way licensing works and the nature of the legal business. To change markets, and by here I'm assuming you mean states, you will need to either work for 3,5 or 7 years in a state that offers reciprocity with the state you're in (not all do) or take the bar again.

Likewise if you're working seven years in one state you either on or off the partner track by then at a firm, you have established contacts in the legal field, been promoted with the government or have a large number of clients in your own firm. Walking away from that does not often make sense. You will be starting over in a new city with no contacts and no book of biz. Being a great lawyer is not usually enough for a firm in another state to hire a lawyer with 7 years experience, being really good at what you do is a rep you had in the old state, what the new state wants from a 7 year associate is a book of biz. A really shitty lower who is a good people person with lots of clients is worth ten times a good lawyer with no clients to a firm. hence changing markets is risky since you give up allot of what makes your successful in the old market.


Yeah, I was thinking that might be the case, thanks for the response. Doesn't the gov. basically look at years experience for advertised positions though? Also, it seems that a book of business would matter less for like in-house as well. I think your post makes a lot of sense though.

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Matthies
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby Matthies » Wed May 26, 2010 5:28 pm

A'nold wrote:Yeah, I was thinking that might be the case, thanks for the response. Doesn't the gov. basically look at years experience for advertised positions though? Also, it seems that a book of business would matter less for like in-house as well. I think your post makes a lot of sense though.


Yea with a government job (federal) you can be licensed in ANY state and work in any other state. For new hires wanting to go from private practice in state A to government in state B this is great, and the government will take an experienced attorney, so that's one way to make the change for state A to state B. However once you're in a government job in state A, it can be, like anything else, easier to move up in state A fed government job than move to state B fed government job (even within the same department), office politics and connections being what they are.

But again, unless you're talking D.C. here your government position is likely going to mean your contacts and the people you govern/oversea/make policy for are all in sate A, so again moving to state B may not be the best choice. A law degree, after the first few years just really is not that portable until the last few years (at which point you got 30 years experience, you move to Florida open up your own shop and work whatever hours you want to). Mid career your pretty much set where your contacts are.

Also note, and this comes directly from people I know who are goverment lawyers, many times adertsing the postion is just a formality, they already know the person they are going to hire internally or through cotacts, and just post the job becuase the law requires them to. (in fact I got a clerk job that way)

You should transfer out here to CO, then by the time you graduate you can come work for me :)

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Wed May 26, 2010 5:45 pm

Matthies wrote:
A'nold wrote:Yeah, I was thinking that might be the case, thanks for the response. Doesn't the gov. basically look at years experience for advertised positions though? Also, it seems that a book of business would matter less for like in-house as well. I think your post makes a lot of sense though.


Yea with a government job (federal) you can be licensed in ANY state and work in any other state. For new hires wanting to go from private practice in state A to government in state B this is great, and the government will take an experienced attorney, so that's one way to make the change for state A to state B. However once you're in a government job in state A, it can be, like anything else, easier to move up in state A fed government job than move to state B fed government job (even within the same department), office politics and connections being what they are.

But again, unless you're talking D.C. here your government position is likely going to mean your contacts and the people you govern/oversea/make policy for are all in sate A, so again moving to state B may not be the best choice. A law degree, after the first few years just really is not that portable until the last few years (at which point you got 30 years experience, you move to Florida open up your own shop and work whatever hours you want to). Mid career your pretty much set where your contacts are.

Also note, and this comes directly from people I know who are goverment lawyers, many times adertsing the postion is just a formality, they already know the person they are going to hire internally or through cotacts, and just post the job becuase the law requires them to. (in fact I got a clerk job that way)

You should transfer out here to CO, then by the time you graduate you can come work for me :)


UC Boulder ftw? Thanks man. :)

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Matthies
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby Matthies » Wed May 26, 2010 6:08 pm

A'nold wrote:
Matthies wrote:
A'nold wrote:Yeah, I was thinking that might be the case, thanks for the response. Doesn't the gov. basically look at years experience for advertised positions though? Also, it seems that a book of business would matter less for like in-house as well. I think your post makes a lot of sense though.


Yea with a government job (federal) you can be licensed in ANY state and work in any other state. For new hires wanting to go from private practice in state A to government in state B this is great, and the government will take an experienced attorney, so that's one way to make the change for state A to state B. However once you're in a government job in state A, it can be, like anything else, easier to move up in state A fed government job than move to state B fed government job (even within the same department), office politics and connections being what they are.

But again, unless you're talking D.C. here your government position is likely going to mean your contacts and the people you govern/oversea/make policy for are all in sate A, so again moving to state B may not be the best choice. A law degree, after the first few years just really is not that portable until the last few years (at which point you got 30 years experience, you move to Florida open up your own shop and work whatever hours you want to). Mid career your pretty much set where your contacts are.

Also note, and this comes directly from people I know who are goverment lawyers, many times adertsing the postion is just a formality, they already know the person they are going to hire internally or through cotacts, and just post the job becuase the law requires them to. (in fact I got a clerk job that way)

You should transfer out here to CO, then by the time you graduate you can come work for me :)


UC Boulder ftw? Thanks man. :)


No you have to go to Denver, I don't hire UC grads on priciple :P

convicted
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby convicted » Wed May 26, 2010 7:24 pm

.
Last edited by convicted on Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Wed May 26, 2010 7:44 pm

convicted wrote:
A'nold wrote:
convicted wrote:It's true. I can't help but gloat a bit when I see a scumbag fail. I am guilty of this. I haven't been around since school started, but since I was lucky enough (notice that word: lucky) to have landed at the top of my class, I am going to try to transfer as well, so I'm back again to maybe learn something! Although I doubt I'll be posting much.

Don't make the mistake of ignoring the substance of my argument based on a character attack. That kind of reasoning illustrates why you're in a TTT. My advice is grounded in reality. We all worked real hard for the LSAT, and we all worked real hard on our law school applications. We also worked real hard this first year. Now, we are where we are. We should have no illusions of grandeur about what we "deserve." We deserve whatever it is that we got and no more. Not everyone is equally capable. To whine about how some professor wronged us from our rightful spot in a top school is illustrative of the type of immature attitude that landed you in a TTT to begin with. Sure, apply to transfer to tons of schools, and be happy with the best one you get in. But that's all you deserve. Whining about the injustice of the whole thing is silly and pathetic.

Best of luck with your transfer applications, but more than anything, best of luck with your attitude. After transfer season is over, I doubt I'll ever read this site again. In other words, I don't have to live with you. Only you have to live with you, so you better work on your sense of entitlement, unless you plan on being the perpetual victim. At the very least, try to not let your poor attitude show through in job interviews.


Does anyone feel like convicted is not writing this to me and has some kind of pent up inferiority complex? When have I ever acted like I have a sense of entitlement? Also, how can I be "the essence of a ttt student" when I am at the top of my class and it was the lowest ranked school I was accepted to and chose it for financial reasons for the betterment of my family?

Sorry you are bitter b/c I can sit down without wincing. :lol:


You honestly think I have an "inferiority complex" with regards to a person to whom I've been far more successful? It's going to take better reasoning ability than that to get out of the TTT, son.


Wait......when did I serve time in prison? Oh yeah, that was you.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed May 26, 2010 7:49 pm

A'nold wrote:Wait......when did I serve time in prison? Oh yeah, that was you.

A'nold, this piece of shit's not worth your time or replies.

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Wed May 26, 2010 7:51 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
A'nold wrote:Wait......when did I serve time in prison? Oh yeah, that was you.

A'nold, this piece of shit's not worth your time or replies.


I know and I appreciate you saying that, it's just that SBL and I have a long, long history of lulz with Mr. convicted and it's hard to resist pissing the idiot off w/ prison jokes.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed May 26, 2010 7:55 pm

A'nold wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:
A'nold wrote:Wait......when did I serve time in prison? Oh yeah, that was you.

A'nold, this piece of shit's not worth your time or replies.


I know and I appreciate you saying that, it's just that SBL and I have a long, long history of lulz with Mr. convicted and it's hard to resist pissing the idiot off w/ prison jokes.

Oh I have that same history with our friend. Regardless of what he says, not ever being afraid to pick up the soap in the shower makes us the winners in this game called life. :lol:

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prezidentv8
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed May 26, 2010 8:24 pm

convicted wrote:You honestly think I have an "inferiority complex" with regards to a person to whom I've been far more successful? It's going to take better reasoning ability than that to get out of the TTT, son.


I'd like to point out that if you're still in school you are not yet successful. You are aspiring to be successful. In school ~= haven't done anything real yet.

solidsnake
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby solidsnake » Wed May 26, 2010 8:35 pm

A'nold: I know i've given you a lot of shit in the past, but that is only because you hedge. See, e.g., the Georgetown EA thread. The second you stop hedging, the second your life will move in the direction in which you envision. You seem to be more focused and determined now. If you want to transfer for purposes of self-gratification, then more power to you; as our reasons for transferring are alike. But I suggest you stop getting in flame wars with someone who only seeks to antagonize you, and start focusing on the task at hand. Have you fucking seen CLS's app? It is not something that can be done in a day. Write a gripping PS and carpet bomb the t30. I don't see why top5% of a T3 is necessarily limited to lower T1. As cheesy as it may sound: people are only limited by their beliefs...well, and the facts, but the because the transfer process is so opaque, there are no conclusive facts here on which to rely, just skewed samples. So go to work. Money never sleeps, pal.

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apper123
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby apper123 » Wed May 26, 2010 8:37 pm

a'nold you do hedge to an unreal extent. that man speaks the truth.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby megaTTTron » Wed May 26, 2010 8:46 pm

i agree. get on those apps, bro.

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Wed May 26, 2010 9:13 pm

Thanks guys, and thanks solidsnake.

I do hedge but the problem (I guess) is that I usually believe what I say. I do have confidence problems that I'm trying to overcome. My wife and I are making a transfer list tonight and I get my final couple grades tomorrow, so it's game on.

Matlock: I forgot that you were involved, sorry man! After you said that I totally remembered. I just remember the guy especially hating SBL and myself, but I knew there were a few more TLS'ers there back then, haha.

aPosseAdEsse
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby aPosseAdEsse » Wed May 26, 2010 9:22 pm

Just in case you don't already know, you can qualify for in-state tuition at UW after your first year. And UW's tuition is pretty fair too (instate tuition will be about $28k this year).

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Wed May 26, 2010 9:25 pm

aPosseAdEsse wrote:Just in case you don't already know, you can qualify for in-state tuition at UW after your first year. And UW's tuition is pretty fair too (instate tuition will be about $28k this year).


You're talking about UW-Seattle, right? I might automatically qualify for in-state as I've lived there my whole life but they might get me on the driver's license thing.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed May 26, 2010 9:32 pm

solidsnake wrote:As cheesy as it may sound: people are only limited by their beliefs...So go to work. Money never sleeps, pal.


Man, this is 100% truth. People are so often their own worst enemies. A'nold, get to work man.

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98234872348
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby 98234872348 » Wed May 26, 2010 9:33 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
solidsnake wrote:As cheesy as it may sound: people are only limited by their beliefs...So go to work. Money never sleeps, pal.


Man, this is 100% truth. People are so often their own worst enemies. A'nold, get to work man.

Prez, any anecdotal evidence about how duke transfers did?

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Wed May 26, 2010 9:36 pm

Duke is one of the schools I'm hitting up, actually, as their transfer admits seem to be very scattered and unpredictable.

Anyone think Cornell is a possibility or does the already small transfer class eliminate a top 5-8%'er from a t3?

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A'nold
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Re: Help A'nold think clearly.........

Postby A'nold » Wed May 26, 2010 9:37 pm

Btw- just wanted to thank everyone for their support on this thread. It means a lot that you guys all took the time to help me out. :)




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