Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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hockeybum
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Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby hockeybum » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:40 pm

For family health and other personal reasons I am considering transferring to a tier 3 school near my home (currently attend a top 30 school on east coast). Is this unheard of? Is one able to recover from the stigma that I am sure is attached to someone transferring down that far? Any info appreciated.

splinter23x
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby splinter23x » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:44 pm

If it's for family health reasons, surely your T30 school will let you take a year or two off?

It's not the stigma of transferring down, it's that you'll have a degree from a third tier school. That will generally make you unemployable for life. Not the best decision, I'm sorry to say.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:44 pm

The stigma of being a compassionate lawyer?

Not enough info. to comment.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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phoenix323
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby phoenix323 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:46 pm

splinter23x wrote:If it's for family health reasons, surely your T30 school will let you take a year or two off?

It's not the stigma of transferring down, it's that you'll have a degree from a third tier school. That will generally make you unemployable for life. Not the best decision, I'm sorry to say.


Wow. Exaggerate much?

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A'nold
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby A'nold » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:49 pm

If your grades are higher than median, that would be really sad to give up the grades there, but if you are at median or below, I see no problem with a transfer. Your GPA will probs go up and you can start your career off locally for a small firm or gov. position. If you have high aspirations like biglaw or a prestigeous clerkship, then you are going to have to figure something out.

splinter23x
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby splinter23x » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:02 pm

phoenix323 wrote:
splinter23x wrote:If it's for family health reasons, surely your T30 school will let you take a year or two off?

It's not the stigma of transferring down, it's that you'll have a degree from a third tier school. That will generally make you unemployable for life. Not the best decision, I'm sorry to say.


Wow. Exaggerate much?

I don't think it's a huge exaggeration. T30 grads can make over $100k. Third-tier grads make $40K. People with only bachelor's degrees make well over $40K. In other words, a third-tier degree provides no salary you couldn't have gotten without 3 years of living without a paycheck and paying unholy tuition.

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phoenix323
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby phoenix323 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

splinter23x wrote:
phoenix323 wrote:
splinter23x wrote:If it's for family health reasons, surely your T30 school will let you take a year or two off?

It's not the stigma of transferring down, it's that you'll have a degree from a third tier school. That will generally make you unemployable for life. Not the best decision, I'm sorry to say.


Wow. Exaggerate much?

I don't think it's a huge exaggeration. T30 grads can make over $100k. Third-tier grads make $40K. People with only bachelor's degrees make well over $40K. In other words, a third-tier degree provides no salary you couldn't have gotten without 3 years of living without a paycheck and paying unholy tuition.


Which is not at all the same as being "unemployable for life". That statement is a little hyperbolic, even for the "sky is falling" segment of TLS.

hockeybum
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby hockeybum » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:46 pm

Thanks for the input, everyone. I have never had the desire to be a biglaw lawyer or do a prestigious clerkship. State government is fine for me. With that being the case, does a transfer down seem less devastating?

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holydonkey
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby holydonkey » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:50 pm

Leave of absence still seems like your best option. Why not take a year (or two) until the family issues are resolved and then return? You'd be in a much better situation than a transfer down.

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legalease9
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby legalease9 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:53 pm

yes, Leave of absence. Don't throw your future away just because you feel the need to keep pushing on. Just take time off, take care of your family, and re-enter later.

bworsowicz
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby bworsowicz » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:54 pm

splinter23x wrote:
phoenix323 wrote:
splinter23x wrote:If it's for family health reasons, surely your T30 school will let you take a year or two off?

It's not the stigma of transferring down, it's that you'll have a degree from a third tier school. That will generally make you unemployable for life. Not the best decision, I'm sorry to say.


Wow. Exaggerate much?

I don't think it's a huge exaggeration. T30 grads can make over $100k. Third-tier grads make $40K. People with only bachelor's degrees make well over $40K. In other words, a third-tier degree provides no salary you couldn't have gotten without 3 years of living without a paycheck and paying unholy tuition.


I have a bachelor's degree from an influential (locally) school and I live in a state capital. Where's my 40+k? Can you find that for me? I'd love to DOUBLE my income.

EDIT: That being said, if you like where you are at, just ask if you can take a leave of absence. No need to move if you don't want to.

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A'nold
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby A'nold » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:59 pm

I get the impression that op is homesick and that this is the driving factor. It is only an impression and could be completely off base. Remember that dude from Stanford that wanted to transfer to a local t2 or 3 or whatever due to homesickness and completely rationalized everything? Not say that this is op, but people have done crazier things if this is the true reason op.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:58 pm

Leave of absence is TCR. Keep in mind if you transfer to a t3 you are going to be forced to pay sticker, which is financial suicide.

In re: the grades comment above- he actually might not get accepted into the t3 if he has well below median grades. Schools typically have some sort of grade cutoffs and won't just let anyone transfer in merely because they were at a better law school prior to the transfer. Additionally, being below median at a t30 is a better place to be then below median at a t3 (and it's not unreasoanble to assume the bad grade trend would continue) because being below median at a t30 might get you something through the alumni network, whereas below median at the t3 probably will leave you jobless ITE.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:30 pm

Also, being at a t30 to begin with will not guarantee above median grades at the t3 should you transfer. I think it would be likely but don't expect to come in as the big fish.

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A'nold
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby A'nold » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:33 pm

JPU wrote:Also, being at a t30 to begin with will not guarantee above median grades at the t3 should you transfer. I think it would be likely but don't expect to come in as the big fish.


Credited. I was thinking he'd get some kind of automatic grade bump, but how much of a bump is the question. It would very likely not be sustantial enough to like put him in the top 20% or something.

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ec2xs
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby ec2xs » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:37 pm

splinter23x wrote:
phoenix323 wrote:
splinter23x wrote:If it's for family health reasons, surely your T30 school will let you take a year or two off?

It's not the stigma of transferring down, it's that you'll have a degree from a third tier school. That will generally make you unemployable for life. Not the best decision, I'm sorry to say.


Wow. Exaggerate much?

I don't think it's a huge exaggeration. T30 grads can make over $100k. Third-tier grads make $40K. People with only bachelor's degrees make well over $40K. In other words, a third-tier degree provides no salary you couldn't have gotten without 3 years of living without a paycheck and paying unholy tuition.


What are you talking about? Tier 3 grads can make over 100k themselves (as a tier 4 grad I know does), and T30 grads can struggle. People with bachelor's degrees can be extremely unemployable. Where are you getting these blanket statements? How do you know the OP doesn't have any employment prospects out of law?

OP - I feel you do what you have to do. If you're bright enough to be in a top 30, the qualities that got you there should reveal themselves down the road. Transferring to a tier 3 may be a hindrance and set you back a few years, but it's not a roadblock to your career. That being said, are the personal factors time-consuming enough that they would hinder your ability to actually succeed at your tier 3?
Last edited by ec2xs on Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:26 am

OP:
Remember that the vast majority of posters on this forum are probably in their early twenties & either contemplating law school, in their final year of college or in their first year of law school & are experiencing a lot of anxieties. All were raised on USNews rankings & dreams of working in "biglaw".
I agree with ec2xs in the respect that if you are going to be a successful lawyer or businessperson, then success will come regardless of the ranking of the school you attend although it may be via a different route & on a different timetable, just as many "biglaw" attorneys experience "failure" on an unexpected schedule.

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romothesavior
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:39 am

CanadianWolf wrote:OP:
Remember that the vast majority of posters on this forum are probably in their early twenties & either contemplating law school, in their final year of college or in their first year of law school & are experiencing a lot of anxieties. All were raised on USNews rankings & dreams of working in "biglaw".
I agree with ec2xs in the respect that if you are going to be a successful lawyer or businessperson, then success will come regardless of the ranking of the school you attend although it may be via a different route & on a different timetable, just as many "biglaw" attorneys experience "failure" on an unexpected schedule.


You can discard what people are saying using an ad hom argument, but that doesn't mean we aren't right. TLS posters may often be wrong about a whole lot of things, but I think it is fairly safe to say T30 to Tier 3 is a big drop.

Since we don't know a whole lot about your personal situation, it is hard to say what you should do. If at all possible, I think a leave of absence would be your best bet. A tier 3 school has nothing to gain by giving you scholarship money with a downward transfer, so you're going to be spending a lot of money on a far less-portable and far less-marketable degree. That said, however, if you think you really must go be with your family and a leave of absence is not possible, then you gotta do what you gotta.

Tough situation all around. Good luck to you.

toolfan
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby toolfan » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:50 am

Hope everything works out for you.

If moving closer to home will make you happier, then do it and don't look back. Life is too short to be somewhere you don't to be. And from the little that you wrote, it sounds like you don't want to be there. Don't worry about the rank of the school. You have to face yourself in the mirror at the end of the day, not us.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:03 am

My point is that most posters here are guessing simply because they are very young & inexperienced. Nothing personal about it, no need to be overly sensitive.
OP:
Many successful layers were educated at non-prestigious law schools.

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bk1
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:04 am

CanadianWolf wrote:My point is that most posters here are guessing simply because they are very young & inexperienced. Nothing personal about it, no need to be overly sensitive.
OP:
Many successful layers were educated at non-prestigious law schools.


And Bill Gates doesn't have a college degree. You don't base decisions on outliers. This has nothing to do with age or experience and everything to do with statistics. The only thing age and experience will bring is anecdotal evidence that will cloud judgment in this case. While I cannot say what the OP should do (family makes it a very difficult call and my opinion would be a leave of absence if possible), of course going to a T3 does not make things certain goals impossible, but it does make them very very unlikely.

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romothesavior
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:23 am

CanadianWolf wrote:My point is that most posters here are guessing simply because they are very young & inexperienced. Nothing personal about it, no need to be overly sensitive.
OP:
Many successful layers were educated at non-prestigious law schools.


I've found that when it comes to prestige-whoring on TLS, we have three types of people:

1. The people who think prestige is some unimportant, unsubstantial element of law. People can and should get a law degree wherever they want, regardless of their numbers, because hey! Law is fun and fulfilling! Don't worry about debt, because most TTT degrees will get you a good paying job and you'll take care of that debt in no time! Just look at those employment statistics... 90% at graduation from Joe Blow School of Law and a median salary of 90k. Those elitist jerks from the T14 are just tooting their own horn, and you will get just as good of an education at your local T3 school.

2. The people who are T14-or-bust (actually screw that, its T6-or-bust). HYSCCN are the only schools really worth going to, but they suppose with a substantial scholly you could scrape something up from Michigan or Norttthwestttern. Oh you only go to Vanderbilttt? Good luck getting a job. You're top third at WUSTTTL? You're screwed. And don't even get these people going on those diploma mills at Georgetttown and Fordham

3. Then there are the halfway reasonable people, who recognize that there are decent reasons for going to a T3 in very certain circumstances (big scholarship, connections to a good job, etc.), but also know that T3 and T4 schools are a path to indebtedness and joblessness for most applicants. We think you should go to the best school you can get into, or take a big scholarship at a T1, because prestige is a big factor. We recognize Vanderbilt is not Harvard and UIUC is not Yale, but that doesn't mean these schools are crap either. People in this category think you should actually do your homework before you go to law school, rather than make decisions based on poor self-reported employment data or a few anecdotal stories about your dad's college roommate who makes 200k a year as a DUI lawyer in Bumfuckville, Indiana.

Canadianwolf, you fall in the first category. "Many successful lawyers were educated at non-prestigious law schools." Well no shit. But the exception does not prove the rule. Hate to break it to ya... but a tier 3 school is not going to give a person the same sort of opportunity as a a T30, and a T30 is not going to give a person the same opportunity as Columbia or even Virginia. That's just a fact.

We may be young, but at least we've done our homework.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby D. H2Oman » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:25 am

CanadianWolf wrote:My point is that most posters here are guessing simply because they are very young & inexperienced. Nothing personal about it, no need to be overly sensitive.
OP:
Many successful layers were educated at non-prestigious law schools.



You are just a terrible poster, you have brought tremendous shame on Canada and on wolves.

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romothesavior
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:32 am

D. H2Oman wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:My point is that most posters here are guessing simply because they are very young & inexperienced. Nothing personal about it, no need to be overly sensitive.
OP:
Many successful layers were educated at non-prestigious law schools.



You are just a terrible poster, you have brought tremendous shame on Canada and on wolves.


Waterman, do you ever sleep?

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Top 30 to Tier 3 transfer?

Postby D. H2Oman » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:40 am

romothesavior wrote:Waterman, do you ever sleep?



lol I'm not a really student anymore and don't have a real job man. It's wreaking havoc on my sleep schedule.

Perhaps I should start my own law school admissions consulting company, I could be the next Anna Ivey.




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