Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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doriangray
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Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby doriangray » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:56 pm

I'm currently planning on attending a T3 that I feel comfortable in attending (and graduating from). I am an extreme splitter, with my LSAT being higher than my potential schools 75th (~6 points higher than the median). The T3 school has also offered a scholarship, which would make it easier to attend (also my parents will be assisting me as I covered the cost of undergrad with work/scholarships).

My question is, is it fairly likely that I would be able to achieve a transfer to a school in the lower half of the T100 that is more geographically preferable? I have a number of friends/close family in the PNW and it is where I would like to settle down so UW/Seattle/L&C/Oregon would be my top choices.

I consider myself a strong student, but a large number of Fs on my transcript as a result of medical issues early in my undergrad have left me with a abysmal GPA that I thought would keep me out of any law school all together (even Cooley won't admit me until after I graduate).

Thanks in advance.

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A'nold
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby A'nold » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:16 pm

doriangray wrote:I'm currently planning on attending a T3 that I feel comfortable in attending (and graduating from). I am an extreme splitter, with my LSAT being higher than my potential schools 75th (~6 points higher than the median). The T3 school has also offered a scholarship, which would make it easier to attend (also my parents will be assisting me as I covered the cost of undergrad with work/scholarships).

My question is, is it fairly likely that I would be able to achieve a transfer to a school in the lower half of the T100 that is more geographically preferable? I have a number of friends/close family in the PNW and it is where I would like to settle down so UW/Seattle/L&C/Oregon would be my top choices.

I consider myself a strong student, but a large number of Fs on my transcript as a result of medical issues early in my undergrad have left me with a abysmal GPA that I thought would keep me out of any lawl skool all together (even Cooley won't admit me until after I graduate).

Thanks in advance.


I was in a very similar situation to you. My LSAT was 6 points above my school's median. I am at the top of the class. Most will say this is the exception, not the rule, but if your GPA was poor b/c of other reasons than your ability and your LSAT is significantly higher than others at your school, I would bet (no guarantee) that you will do well if you work hard enough (work hard as in smart. If you haven't, read Arrow's post on 1L success). If you finish in the top 20%, you should be good at those schools and if you get top 5%, you could possibly be looking at UW.

270910
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby 270910 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:30 pm

A'nold wrote:
doriangray wrote:I'm currently planning on attending a T3 that I feel comfortable in attending (and graduating from). I am an extreme splitter, with my LSAT being higher than my potential schools 75th (~6 points higher than the median). The T3 school has also offered a scholarship, which would make it easier to attend (also my parents will be assisting me as I covered the cost of undergrad with work/scholarships).

My question is, is it fairly likely that I would be able to achieve a transfer to a school in the lower half of the T100 that is more geographically preferable? I have a number of friends/close family in the PNW and it is where I would like to settle down so UW/Seattle/L&C/Oregon would be my top choices.

I consider myself a strong student, but a large number of Fs on my transcript as a result of medical issues early in my undergrad have left me with a abysmal GPA that I thought would keep me out of any lawl skool all together (even Cooley won't admit me until after I graduate).

Thanks in advance.


I was in a very similar situation to you. My LSAT was 6 points above my school's median. I am at the top of the class. Most will say this is the exception, not the rule, but if your GPA was poor b/c of other reasons than your ability and your LSAT is significantly higher than others at your school, I would bet (no guarantee) that you will do well if you work hard enough (work hard as in smart. If you haven't, read Arrow's post on 1L success). If you finish in the top 20%, you should be good at those schools and if you get top 5%, you could possibly be looking at UW.


STOP IT AND DIE IN A FIRE.

The LSAT is an abysmal predictor of individual performance. It's a bad predictor of group performance, but still decent.

Having an LSAT better or worse than your entering class is NOT going to be an ace up your sleeve or an anchor around your neck.

Now, I firmly believe that educated enthusiasm - chiefly manifested by being on and tapping into the resources of TLS - can give you an ace up your sleeve.

BUT YOUR TINY PINK 6 EXTRA PROPER BUBBLES ON THE LSAT WON'T.

asdkjgafdlkafsj.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby D. H2Oman » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:32 pm

disco_barred wrote:
[strike]STOP IT AND DIE IN A FIRE.

The LSAT is an abysmal predictor of individual performance. It's a bad predictor of group performance, but still decent.

Having an LSAT better or worse than your entering class is NOT going to be an ace up your sleeve or an anchor around your neck.

Now, I firmly believe that educated enthusiasm - chiefly manifested by being on and tapping into the resources of lishi - can give you an ace up your sleeve.

BUT YOUR TINY PINK 6 EXTRA PROPER BUBBLES ON THE LSAT WON'T.

asdkjgafdlkafsj[/strike].

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A'nold
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby A'nold » Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:44 pm

disco_barred wrote:
A'nold wrote:
doriangray wrote:I'm currently planning on attending a T3 that I feel comfortable in attending (and graduating from). I am an extreme splitter, with my LSAT being higher than my potential schools 75th (~6 points higher than the median). The T3 school has also offered a scholarship, which would make it easier to attend (also my parents will be assisting me as I covered the cost of undergrad with work/scholarships).

My question is, is it fairly likely that I would be able to achieve a transfer to a school in the lower half of the T100 that is more geographically preferable? I have a number of friends/close family in the PNW and it is where I would like to settle down so UW/Seattle/L&C/Oregon would be my top choices.

I consider myself a strong student, but a large number of Fs on my transcript as a result of medical issues early in my undergrad have left me with a abysmal GPA that I thought would keep me out of any lawl skool all together (even Cooley won't admit me until after I graduate).

Thanks in advance.


I was in a very similar situation to you. My LSAT was 6 points above my school's median. I am at the top of the class. Most will say this is the exception, not the rule, but if your GPA was poor b/c of other reasons than your ability and your LSAT is significantly higher than others at your school, I would bet (no guarantee) that you will do well if you work hard enough (work hard as in smart. If you haven't, read Arrow's post on 1L success). If you finish in the top 20%, you should be good at those schools and if you get top 5%, you could possibly be looking at UW.


STOP IT AND DIE IN A FIRE.

The LSAT is an abysmal predictor of individual performance. It's a bad predictor of group performance, but still decent.

Having an LSAT better or worse than your entering class is NOT going to be an ace up your sleeve or an anchor around your neck.

Now, I firmly believe that educated enthusiasm - chiefly manifested by being on and tapping into the resources of lishi - can give you an ace up your sleeve.

BUT YOUR TINY PINK 6 EXTRA PROPER BUBBLES ON THE LSAT WON'T.

asdkjgafdlkafsj.


I love tiny pink references. :)

I know we've had this discussion quite a bit but op is going to a t3. Are you trying to tell me that a 161 LSAT means crap when it comes to a class MEDIAN of 155? A 161 is light years ahead of a 153, which like 1/3 of the class has.......at a certain point the LSAT really does test what law school forces you to think like + in a short period of time. People that scored sub 155 if they studied or did not have a catastrophic experience while taking the test likely don't have as much ability as the 161 to dissect fact patterns and write a detailed, coherent answer. Thus, if op works at least as hard as the majority of his classmates and does not royally f up, he should be looking at top 1/3, wouldn't you at least say?

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apper123
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby apper123 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:59 pm

disco_barred wrote:
A'nold wrote:
doriangray wrote:I'm currently planning on attending a T3 that I feel comfortable in attending (and graduating from). I am an extreme splitter, with my LSAT being higher than my potential schools 75th (~6 points higher than the median). The T3 school has also offered a scholarship, which would make it easier to attend (also my parents will be assisting me as I covered the cost of undergrad with work/scholarships).

My question is, is it fairly likely that I would be able to achieve a transfer to a school in the lower half of the T100 that is more geographically preferable? I have a number of friends/close family in the PNW and it is where I would like to settle down so UW/Seattle/L&C/Oregon would be my top choices.

I consider myself a strong student, but a large number of Fs on my transcript as a result of medical issues early in my undergrad have left me with a abysmal GPA that I thought would keep me out of any lawl skool all together (even Cooley won't admit me until after I graduate).

Thanks in advance.


I was in a very similar situation to you. My LSAT was 6 points above my school's median. I am at the top of the class. Most will say this is the exception, not the rule, but if your GPA was poor b/c of other reasons than your ability and your LSAT is significantly higher than others at your school, I would bet (no guarantee) that you will do well if you work hard enough (work hard as in smart. If you haven't, read Arrow's post on 1L success). If you finish in the top 20%, you should be good at those schools and if you get top 5%, you could possibly be looking at UW.


STOP IT AND DIE IN A FIRE.

The LSAT is an abysmal predictor of individual performance. It's a bad predictor of group performance, but still decent.

Having an LSAT better or worse than your entering class is NOT going to be an ace up your sleeve or an anchor around your neck.

Now, I firmly believe that educated enthusiasm - chiefly manifested by being on and tapping into the resources of lishi - can give you an ace up your sleeve.

BUT YOUR TINY PINK 6 EXTRA PROPER BUBBLES ON THE LSAT WON'T.

asdkjgafdlkafsj.


The LSAT being a better predictor of group performance than individual performance is like saying whenever you increase sample size and reduce variance the predictor is more consistent in its results.

Duh. It's still the same in the end, though.

However, the constant "WHAT IF?" threads about transfers are annoying. Get your first semester grades and you will have plenty of time to WHAT IF then.

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A'nold
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby A'nold » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:03 pm

apper123 wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
A'nold wrote:
doriangray wrote:I'm currently planning on attending a T3 that I feel comfortable in attending (and graduating from). I am an extreme splitter, with my LSAT being higher than my potential schools 75th (~6 points higher than the median). The T3 school has also offered a scholarship, which would make it easier to attend (also my parents will be assisting me as I covered the cost of undergrad with work/scholarships).

My question is, is it fairly likely that I would be able to achieve a transfer to a school in the lower half of the T100 that is more geographically preferable? I have a number of friends/close family in the PNW and it is where I would like to settle down so UW/Seattle/L&C/Oregon would be my top choices.

I consider myself a strong student, but a large number of Fs on my transcript as a result of medical issues early in my undergrad have left me with a abysmal GPA that I thought would keep me out of any lawl skool all together (even Cooley won't admit me until after I graduate).

Thanks in advance.


I was in a very similar situation to you. My LSAT was 6 points above my school's median. I am at the top of the class. Most will say this is the exception, not the rule, but if your GPA was poor b/c of other reasons than your ability and your LSAT is significantly higher than others at your school, I would bet (no guarantee) that you will do well if you work hard enough (work hard as in smart. If you haven't, read Arrow's post on 1L success). If you finish in the top 20%, you should be good at those schools and if you get top 5%, you could possibly be looking at UW.


STOP IT AND DIE IN A FIRE.

The LSAT is an abysmal predictor of individual performance. It's a bad predictor of group performance, but still decent.

Having an LSAT better or worse than your entering class is NOT going to be an ace up your sleeve or an anchor around your neck.

Now, I firmly believe that educated enthusiasm - chiefly manifested by being on and tapping into the resources of lishi - can give you an ace up your sleeve.

BUT YOUR TINY PINK 6 EXTRA PROPER BUBBLES ON THE LSAT WON'T.

asdkjgafdlkafsj.


The LSAT being a better predictor of group performance than individual performance is like saying whenever you increase sample size and reduce variance the predictor is more consistent in its results.

Duh. It's still the same in the end, though.

However, the constant "WHAT IF?" threads about transfers are annoying. Get your first semester grades and you will have plenty of time to WHAT IF then.


TITCR. Do what I did and plan on getting a local county job and secretely hope and work for a transfer all the while not believing that you will have grades good enough to do so.
:)

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:06 pm

apper123 wrote:However, the constant "WHAT IF?" threads about transfers are annoying. Get your first semester grades and you will have plenty of time to WHAT IF then.


You realize the same could be said about these "what if" threads where people who only have half their 1L grades are making decisions based on the "WHAT IF" they repeat the exact same performace 2nd semester... Just sayin'.

270910
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby 270910 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:11 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
apper123 wrote:However, the constant "WHAT IF?" threads about transfers are annoying. Get your first semester grades and you will have plenty of time to WHAT IF then.


You realize the same could be said about these "what if" threads where people who only have half their 1L grades are making decisions based on the "WHAT IF" they repeat the exact same performace 2nd semester... Just sayin'.


waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different. Anecdotes on the forum suggest extremely strong correlation between at least a certain level of first semester performance and continued results, while anecdote + statistics + common sense + God's own truth suggest extraordinarily week correlation between any set of data and one person's performance first semester.

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apper123
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby apper123 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:36 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
apper123 wrote:However, the constant "WHAT IF?" threads about transfers are annoying. Get your first semester grades and you will have plenty of time to WHAT IF then.


You realize the same could be said about these "what if" threads where people who only have half their 1L grades are making decisions based on the "WHAT IF" they repeat the exact same performace 2nd semester... Just sayin'.

These are not even remotely the same things, and the reasons why should be blatantly obvious.

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NayBoer
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby NayBoer » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:49 pm

Six points doesn't equal six questions. If we're talking about a jump from mid 150s to low 160s it might be ten or more extra questions answered correctly.

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A'nold
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby A'nold » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:25 pm

disco_barred wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
apper123 wrote:However, the constant "WHAT IF?" threads about transfers are annoying. Get your first semester grades and you will have plenty of time to WHAT IF then.


You realize the same could be said about these "what if" threads where people who only have half their 1L grades are making decisions based on the "WHAT IF" they repeat the exact same performace 2nd semester... Just sayin'.


waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different. Anecdotes on the forum suggest extremely strong correlation between at least a certain level of first semester performance and continued results, while anecdote + statistics + common sense + God's own truth suggest extraordinarily week correlation between any set of data and one person's performance first semester.


Except for the LSAT.........I couldn't help myself! 8)

Btw- why did I say "you're missing the point friend" in my post above? Either I was having a temporary seizure or I accidentally clipped out the wrong part of a quote.

270910
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby 270910 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:37 pm

A'nold wrote:Except for the LSAT.........I couldn't help myself! 8)


Don't make me come over there! ;D

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A'nold
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby A'nold » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:41 pm

disco_barred wrote:
A'nold wrote:Except for the LSAT.........I couldn't help myself! 8)


Don't make me come over there! ;D


:D .

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby OperaSoprano » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:47 pm

disco_barred wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
apper123 wrote:However, the constant "WHAT IF?" threads about transfers are annoying. Get your first semester grades and you will have plenty of time to WHAT IF then.


You realize the same could be said about these "what if" threads where people who only have half their 1L grades are making decisions based on the "WHAT IF" they repeat the exact same performace 2nd semester... Just sayin'.


waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different. Anecdotes on the forum suggest extremely strong correlation between at least a certain level of first semester performance and continued results, while anecdote + statistics + common sense + God's own truth suggest extraordinarily week correlation between any set of data and one person's performance first semester.


I am holding you to this. You had better be right.

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XxSpyKEx
Posts: 1741
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby XxSpyKEx » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:53 pm

disco_barred wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
apper123 wrote:However, the constant "WHAT IF?" threads about transfers are annoying. Get your first semester grades and you will have plenty of time to WHAT IF then.


You realize the same could be said about these "what if" threads where people who only have half their 1L grades are making decisions based on the "WHAT IF" they repeat the exact same performace 2nd semester... Just sayin'.


waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different. Anecdotes on the forum suggest extremely strong correlation between at least a certain level of first semester performance and continued results, while anecdote + statistics + common sense + God's own truth suggest extraordinarily week correlation between any set of data and one person's performance first semester.


There is... to some extent. There's usually a lot of different factors that come into account though. Some people just burn out after their first semester and get lazier their second semester. I know quite a few people that didn't get lazier but dropped in class rank significantly 2nd semester last year. I can't speak for every school, but at my old school in the 2 semester courses, the second semester covered literally triple the material the first semester did. Additionally, in the one semester courses we didn't get the first 4 weeks of cushion that we did 1st semester that profs gave us to just figure out shit like how to read a case (meaning we covered a lot more material in those classes as well). Lastly, a lot of the material covered got more complex second semester (e.g. in Ks 1 we covered offer/acceptance, whereas in Ks 2 we covered conditions v. promises). As a result, a lot of people that did fairly well 1st semester did a lot worse 2nd semester (I guess they just couldn't hang).

Anyway, I don't know how much credit I would give "anecdotes on the forum" because only people who did consistently well will talk (e.g. who is honestly going to admit they did great their first semester but they were just to dumb to hang the second semester and therefore dropped class rank massively when things got tougher). With that said, I don't know of anyone who ended up in the top 5% or better 1st semester and did a ton worse 2nd semester. It was typically mostly these top 10-20% people that dropped. However, even if you were top 5% first semester, it is really tough to determine where you will fall after second semester and what schools will be an option exclusively based on 1st semester grades because getting an extra A- or two second semester can drop you from top 2-3% to top 6-7% (depending on your curve), which makes a huge difference in terms of what schools are possible to transfer to (and the difference between an A and an A- on an easy exam will largely be luck).

bagosian
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby bagosian » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:04 pm

Does it matter if you are transferring from a non-AALS T3 to a T2 school that is a member of the AALS?

yabbadabbado
Posts: 179
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Re: Tier 3 to 50-100 Chances

Postby yabbadabbado » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:47 pm

bagosian wrote:Does it matter if you are transferring from a non-AALS T3 to a T2 school that is a member of the AALS?


You need to check with the particular schools. Most schools aren't going to care about stuff like that but some MIGHT.




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