T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

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JacobyEllz
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T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby JacobyEllz » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:05 pm

So I got a 4.0, Cali'd 3 of my 5 classes, and finished ranked 1 after my first semester. I figure I'll be a shoe in for Law Review. The only reason I went to Widener was that I had terrible stats. I'm wondering, what schools should I be looking at to transfer assuming I repeat my performance. Am I completely unrealistic to look at top 14 and should I just be looking at schools like GW, Nova, Cardozo etc?

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A'nold
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby A'nold » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:53 pm

I would say that top 20 is feasible. I don't know if anything less would be worth it, especially schools like Nova and Cardozo. You'd likely be way better off staying than looking at schools like that.

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apper123
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby apper123 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:25 pm

A'nold wrote:I would say that top 20 is feasible. I don't know if anything less would be worth it, especially schools like Nova and Cardozo. You'd likely be way better off staying than looking at schools like that.


I respectfully disagree with this. I'd take any of those schools unranked over #1 at Widener any day.

Then again, take what I say with a grain of salt.

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A'nold
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby A'nold » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:32 pm

apper123 wrote:
A'nold wrote:I would say that top 20 is feasible. I don't know if anything less would be worth it, especially schools like Nova and Cardozo. You'd likely be way better off staying than looking at schools like that.


I respectfully disagree with this. I'd take any of those schools unranked over #1 at Widener any day.

Then again, take what I say with a grain of salt.


Really? You'd actually take Cardozo at median or below over Widener #1? I'd almost rather graduate from any school as THE NUMBER 1 student than most schools at median.

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onthecusp
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby onthecusp » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:34 pm

It doesn't hurt to apply. Identify the bottom school you'd be willing to transfer to and give up number 1 status at Widener. Even at Widener, being #1 in your class will afford you excellent employment opportunities depending on what you want to do. If anyone at Widener has a shot at big law....it's gonna be the #1 guy.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:35 pm

Since I am in the same shoes as the OP I have a more optimistic outlook on this.

Aim for top, lower t14 should be within reach if you repeat grades and can write a solid PS. OP should have done GULC EA.

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jack duluoz
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby jack duluoz » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:42 pm

apper123 wrote:
A'nold wrote:I would say that top 20 is feasible. I don't know if anything less would be worth it, especially schools like Nova and Cardozo. You'd likely be way better off staying than looking at schools like that.


I respectfully disagree with this. I'd take any of those schools unranked over #1 at Widener any day.

Then again, take what I say with a grain of salt.


IMO, this is so wrong.

JacobyEllz
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby JacobyEllz » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:53 pm

jack duluoz wrote:
apper123 wrote:
A'nold wrote:I would say that top 20 is feasible. I don't know if anything less would be worth it, especially schools like Nova and Cardozo. You'd likely be way better off staying than looking at schools like that.


I respectfully disagree with this. I'd take any of those schools unranked over #1 at Widener any day.

Then again, take what I say with a grain of salt.


IMO, this is so wrong.


Agreed. Anyone who makes posts like he does should be banned from the board.

What are my shots at schools like schools like Columbia, NYU, Penn, etc?

Also, is it really a bad move to try to go to a school like GW, American, Cardozo etc? Wouldn't I have better job opportunites. I desperately want to do big law. However, if I think I can get a big law job with where I am ranked at Widener, Id stay because Im going to get a lot of money. I'm not sure if transfers get money.

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apper123
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby apper123 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:54 pm

jack duluoz wrote:
apper123 wrote:
A'nold wrote:I would say that top 20 is feasible. I don't know if anything less would be worth it, especially schools like Nova and Cardozo. You'd likely be way better off staying than looking at schools like that.


I respectfully disagree with this. I'd take any of those schools unranked over #1 at Widener any day.

Then again, take what I say with a grain of salt.


IMO, this is so wrong.


That's why I said take what I say with a grain of salt.

Just my personal feeling. I'm from PA, so I kinda know the general feel of the reputation of all the schools, but I could very well be wrong.

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apper123
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby apper123 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:55 pm

JacobyEllz wrote:
jack duluoz wrote:
apper123 wrote:
A'nold wrote:I would say that top 20 is feasible. I don't know if anything less would be worth it, especially schools like Nova and Cardozo. You'd likely be way better off staying than looking at schools like that.


I respectfully disagree with this. I'd take any of those schools unranked over #1 at Widener any day.

Then again, take what I say with a grain of salt.


IMO, this is so wrong.


Agreed. Anyone who makes posts like he does should be banned from the board.


Excuse me? Why? I offered you my genuine opinion. I'm sorry it disagrees with yours, but I do not think that should result in banning from the board. Looking at the Philly job market, I think you'd be much better served with a degree from Temple or Villanova. I'm sorry I gave you advice you weren't looking for, but I do not think that should result in me being banned.

And I'm talking about 2L OCI. You'd be interviewing with many of the same firms as you would at Widener, and they will see your Widener grades + you will have a degree from Temple or Villanova. I fail to see why this logic results in a "banning."

I also disclaimered my advice, since it was just my personal conjecture, so I wasn't presenting it as gospel or with any sort of authority/credibility.

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kings84_wr
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby kings84_wr » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:10 pm

I think for Big Law Apper is probably right, maybe I should be banned too

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onthecusp
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby onthecusp » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:33 pm

JacobyEllz wrote:
jack duluoz wrote:
apper123 wrote:
A'nold wrote:I would say that top 20 is feasible. I don't know if anything less would be worth it, especially schools like Nova and Cardozo. You'd likely be way better off staying than looking at schools like that.


I respectfully disagree with this. I'd take any of those schools unranked over #1 at Widener any day.

Then again, take what I say with a grain of salt.


IMO, this is so wrong.


Agreed. Anyone who makes posts like he does should be banned from the board.

What are my shots at schools like schools like Columbia, NYU, Penn, etc?

Also, is it really a bad move to try to go to a school like GW, American, Cardozo etc? Wouldn't I have better job opportunites. I desperately want to do big law. However, if I think I can get a big law job with where I am ranked at Widener, Id stay because Im going to get a lot of money. I'm not sure if transfers get money.


Rarely do transfers ever get any kind of money. You should expect to pay sticker anywhere that you want to transfer to.

JacobyEllz
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby JacobyEllz » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:35 pm

apper123 wrote:
JacobyEllz wrote:
jack duluoz wrote:[quote="apper123I respectfully disagree with this. I'd take any of those schools unranked over #1 at Widener any day.

Then again, take what I say with a grain of salt.


IMO, this is so wrong.


Agreed. Anyone who makes posts like he does should be banned from the board.


Excuse me? Why? I offered you my genuine opinion. I'm sorry it disagrees with yours, but I do not think that should result in banning from the board. Looking at the Philly job market, I think you'd be much better served with a degree from Temple or Villanova. I'm sorry I gave you advice you weren't looking for, but I do not think that should result in me being banned.

And I'm talking about 2L OCI. You'd be interviewing with many of the same firms as you would at Widener, and they will see your Widener grades + you will have a degree from Temple or Villanova. I fail to see why this logic results in a "banning."

I also disclaimered my advice, since it was just my personal conjecture, so I wasn't presenting it as gospel or with any sort of authority/credibility.[/quote]

Saying that you would be unranked at any school any over being ranked 1 at a school like Widener seems outrageous to me. But whatever, maybe you do believe it and I am sure you were geniune. You just tact but hey, noone is perfect.

I will take your advice though and apply to these schools. I think if I keep it up, I am a shoe-in at these schools. Again thoguh, if someone could answer my question. Do I have a legit shot at NYU, Columbia, Penn?

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:40 pm

OP check out the Yahoo TransferApps group. Just search yahoo for "transferapps" and it will come up. Once you join there is a database in the left column with a few years worth of data.

Unlike regular admissions there is no way to give an estimate on what your exact chances are, but since we are in identical positions (although you CALI'd 1 more class than I) and I plan on applying to NYU, Penn, and CLS I can offer you my best guess. Unfortunately for us these schools do not seem to like us 4th tier guys so I am pegging our chances at around 10% for each of those schools.

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A'nold
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby A'nold » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:37 pm

I move to ban apper. 8)










Haha.

rando
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby rando » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:51 pm

Both are legitimate opinions. Friends of mine transferred from T20 to T8 and struck out at OCI because they were transfers. They would have been shoe-ins for jobs if they had stayed. People transferring in from TTT's who may have had a shot at biglaw as #1-3 in their class struck out in our 2L OCI.
This anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that transferring is generally a bad idea ITE unless you a transferring higher than T8.

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onthecusp
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby onthecusp » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:54 pm

rando wrote:Both are legitimate opinions. Friends of mine transferred from T20 to T8 and struck out at OCI because they were transfers. They would have been shoe-ins for jobs if they had stayed. People transferring in from TTT's who may have had a shot at biglaw as #1-3 in their class struck out in our 2L OCI.
This anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that transferring is generally a bad idea ITE unless you a transferring higher than T8.


So why not do OCI's at your transfer school during your 1st year and set yourself up for the summer? You can do OCI's during 2L after you've spent a semester at your new school.

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apper123
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby apper123 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:01 pm

rando wrote:Both are legitimate opinions. Friends of mine transferred from T20 to T8 and struck out at OCI because they were transfers. They would have been shoe-ins for jobs if they had stayed. People transferring in from TTT's who may have had a shot at biglaw as #1-3 in their class struck out in our 2L OCI.
This anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that transferring is generally a bad idea ITE unless you a transferring higher than T8.


There's a big difference in transferring from a T20 to a T8 than from a TTTT to a T20 or even a top 100 school IMO.

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A'nold
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby A'nold » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:14 pm

apper123 wrote:
rando wrote:Both are legitimate opinions. Friends of mine transferred from T20 to T8 and struck out at OCI because they were transfers. They would have been shoe-ins for jobs if they had stayed. People transferring in from TTT's who may have had a shot at biglaw as #1-3 in their class struck out in our 2L OCI.
This anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that transferring is generally a bad idea ITE unless you a transferring higher than T8.


There's a big difference in transferring from a T20 to a T8 than from a TTTT to a T20 or even a top 100 school IMO.


Disagree very much with the bolded but you still my boy apper. :)

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kings84_wr
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby kings84_wr » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:18 pm

I think one thing people forget is that if a school is placing just a handful say 2 or 3 in big law, it does not mean that its the top 2 or 3 students that get those jobs.

The reality is that being at a school with a better OCI will probably increase the chance of big law. THeres no guarantee even as number one at the current school.

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A'nold
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby A'nold » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:23 pm

kings84_wr wrote:I think one thing people forget is that if a school is placing just a handful say 2 or 3 in big law, it does not mean that its the top 2 or 3 students that get those jobs.

The reality is that being at a school with a better OCI will probably increase the chance of big law. THeres no guarantee even as number one at the current school.


Agreed but the disagreement stems from talking about "top 100" or "Cardozo." I'd say you have 0% chance of landing biglaw as a Widener transfer to Cardozo but at least a chance as the #1 student at Widener. If we are talking t20 I think that is a whole new ballgame. Maybe not EXACTLY t20 but schools that are t20 type schools at least like Notre Dame, Boston College, GW, etc.

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apper123
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby apper123 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:24 pm

kings84_wr wrote:I think one thing people forget is that if a school is placing just a handful say 2 or 3 in big law, it does not mean that its the top 2 or 3 students that get those jobs.

The reality is that being at a school with a better OCI will probably increase the chance of big law. THeres no guarantee even as number one at the current school.

These are my thoughts exactly. The #1 at Widener transferring to Nova/Temple will likely be able to access a far more expansive 2L OCI. His Widener grades will still be there. I hear stories all the time, "The hiring partner told me they wouldn't have even interviewed me if I stayed at x school." and generally those people are talking about T2s vs T10s. This is a big, big jump.

rando
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby rando » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:38 pm

onthecusp wrote:
rando wrote:Both are legitimate opinions. Friends of mine transferred from T20 to T8 and struck out at OCI because they were transfers. They would have been shoe-ins for jobs if they had stayed. People transferring in from TTT's who may have had a shot at biglaw as #1-3 in their class struck out in our 2L OCI.
This anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that transferring is generally a bad idea ITE unless you a transferring higher than T8.


So why not do OCI's at your transfer school during your 1st year and set yourself up for the summer? You can do OCI's during 2L after you've spent a semester at your new school.


Can you rephrase? I don't understand.

rando
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby rando » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:43 pm

apper123 wrote:
rando wrote:Both are legitimate opinions. Friends of mine transferred from T20 to T8 and struck out at OCI because they were transfers. They would have been shoe-ins for jobs if they had stayed. People transferring in from TTT's who may have had a shot at biglaw as #1-3 in their class struck out in our 2L OCI.
This anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that transferring is generally a bad idea ITE unless you a transferring higher than T8.


There's a big difference in transferring from a T20 to a T8 than from a TTTT to a T20 or even a top 100 school IMO.


That was the point of the post. No there isn't. There is a huge transfer class here, most of whom came from TTT's and TTTT's and were at the very top of their class. They got nothing while interviewing at our OCI.
I am not sure why you would say there is a different. I am not saying you are wrong. I just don't see the logic. Transferring from T20 to T8, the firms interviewing at least respect the school you came from and see that you did well at a "solid" school, just not the best. But these kids struck out because they are transfers.
Now take the other scenario. TTTT to T20 (or T100). I would think the problem would be magnified. Now firms have zero respect for the transfer school and don't even look at the student.

IMO the problem is expectations. You transfer from TTTT, you move from law firms that interview there expecting TTTT students and comparing appropriately. Similarly, you have T20's transferring to T8's and interviewing with the Wachtell's of the world who came to interview the T8's, not transfers. I think transferring (ITE) creates a hiring/expectation gap.

reverendt
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Re: T4 (Widener Delaware) to?

Postby reverendt » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:43 pm

Congratulations! That's very impressive!

I am not a rankings whore by any means, but I kind of agree with the sentiment that if you don't get into a "national" (probably top 20 school) stay where you are, UNLESS there's a good T1 or T2 school in a market that you KNOW you wanna work in.

A good job might be tough to get coming out of Widener...but not if you're #1. You'll probably do fine if you stay where you are. But...you won't have the diploma from a good school.

You'll also do fine if you go to a top 20 school, AND will have a sexy diploma. I would apply for transfer to a bunch. Don't be afraid of the lower T14, and sure, try Columbia...the worst they can say is no....
Congrats again!!!!




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