Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only available to the creator of each thread. The anonymous posting feature is intended to permit the solicitation of anonymous advice regarding the transfer application process, chances of being accepted, etc. Unacceptable uses include: testing the feature, questions which are clearly fake or hypothetical in nature, harassing other users, etc. Posters should also read and understand the announcements posted at the top of the Transfers forum prior to using the anonymous feature.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

GPA and Law Review vs. Higher ranked school

High GPA and Law Review at T30
97
51%
Transfer to T14
94
49%
 
Total votes: 191

User avatar
ZXCVBNM
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:45 pm

Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby ZXCVBNM » Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:41 pm

What do people think about transferring from a T30 (fordham) to a T14 (columbia/NYU) considering that I'll lose my GPA in the process and probably law review? Especially since being in top 10% at T30 I'll likely have very similar BigLaw opportunities as a transfer into a T14 school for OCI. Thoughts?

User avatar
ZXCVBNM
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:45 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby ZXCVBNM » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:34 pm

thanks for taking the poll but i would love to hear everyone's actual input...thanks!

User avatar
Helmholtz
Posts: 4394
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:48 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby Helmholtz » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:36 pm

Can't firms see your 1L GPA from your old school at OCI?

User avatar
PDaddy
Posts: 2073
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby PDaddy » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:41 pm

Helmholtz wrote:Can't firms see your 1L GPA from your old school at OCI?



...and can't you still apply to LR at many T14 schools? I could be wrong, but I have heard a lot of schools say they wanted to take relieve students of their reluctance to transfer for logistical reasons. IO don't know if it's T14 schools or not.

User avatar
A'nold
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby A'nold » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:43 pm

I don't know.....I voted for Fordham but I'm honestly about 50/50 on this one. If you want to play it safe you can't really go wrong with top 10% and LR at Fordham but an NYU/CLS degree would be sweet. Sorry for this unhelpful post.

User avatar
Joga Bonito
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:46 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby Joga Bonito » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:45 pm

It could go either way honestly since its fordham and nyu/columbia.

I would go with nyu/def columbia but thats probably just because of my own prestige whoredom

User avatar
jks289
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby jks289 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:54 pm

If there isn't any scholarship money in play, I'd say transfer. The school's name is going to stick with you longer than that GPA. You've already proven you have what it takes to be a top notch law student. I doubt it is that much harder to be to 10% at Fordham than it is at NYU/Columbia (0L talking, though). Both have excellent people at the top of their classes.

User avatar
ZXCVBNM
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:45 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby ZXCVBNM » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:57 pm

Helmholtz wrote:Can't firms see your 1L GPA from your old school at OCI?

they can but you are now competing with columbia/nyu students and they know you went to fordham which has "less" competition. also, s/o else asked if you can still compete for LR. Columbia's this year is at the same time as Fordham finals. NYU's is in the fall but very few spots are awarded. So it's a definite LR vs. trying out for a long shot.

I guess I want to know if my OCI prospects would be better or worse. Also, in the long run is it worth it to have the "better" degree even w/o LR and high GPA?

User avatar
ZXCVBNM
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:45 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby ZXCVBNM » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:58 pm

jks289 wrote:If there isn't any scholarship money in play, I'd say transfer. The school's name is going to stick with you longer than that GPA. You've already proven you have what it takes to be a top notch law student. I doubt it is that much harder to be to 10% at Fordham than it is at NYU/Columbia (0L talking, though). Both have excellent people at the top of their classes.


Fordham gives a whopping 5K to their top 15 (not 15%) students not to transfer. Pretty ridic.

User avatar
ZXCVBNM
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:45 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby ZXCVBNM » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:00 am

And what if you're in the top 5% or higher....is better to stay to keep the stellar GPA?

Note: I realize with all of this that I have another semester to go.

BobSacamano
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:51 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby BobSacamano » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:49 am

jks289 wrote:If there isn't any scholarship money in play, I'd say transfer. The school's name is going to stick with you longer than that GPA. You've already proven you have what it takes to be a top notch law student. I doubt it is that much harder to be to 10% at Fordham than it is at NYU/Columbia (0L talking, though). Both have excellent people at the top of their classes.

True, but his first job is going to stick with him longer than his school's name. If he transfers to NYU/Columbia and misses the BigLaw boat because he is a random transfer student in a big pond of BigLaw hopefuls, he might miss out on the BigLaw track entirely. For whatever reason, it's a hard position to land once you've missed out your initial opportunity.

I think this is a really tough decision. It depends on your career aspirations, really, and how risk-averse you are. Top 10% + LR at Fordham is pretty much a lock for a nice firm job. It's hard to say how transfer students do in OCI, but I would guess that it's less than a lock. Of course, this is assuming you keep up your grades at Fordham. Logically, there should be no difference in hiring since you're the same student, but there have been some transfer horror stories.

User avatar
ZXCVBNM
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:45 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby ZXCVBNM » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:52 am

very interesting...i'm thinking that it should be a bump for employers b/c i'm the same student but now with a better diploma. these firms hire more students from columbia/nyu then fordham so hypothetically it should be easier. it's really hard to get hard info on this.

User avatar
Cavalier
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby Cavalier » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:17 am

You need to find out two things. First, what are the employment prospects like for people on law review at Fordham? Second, how well do transfers tend to do at their new schools? I imagine that if you're capable of getting top 10% at Fordham you can certainly get top half at Columbia, and probably top third, but I really don't know.

User avatar
ggocat
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:51 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby ggocat » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:16 pm

Tough call. But either way, you have two great options. Congrats.

User avatar
98234872348
Posts: 1547
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:19 pm

I tend to vote for Fordham in this situation. I don't think your job prospects will improve substantially (if at all) by transferring.

User avatar
macattaq
Posts: 441
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:46 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby macattaq » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:28 pm

mistergoft wrote:I tend to vote for Fordham in this situation. I don't think your job prospects will improve substantially (if at all) by transferring.


Probably, but I tend to think that access to Columbia/NYU alumni networks will create possibilities that just won't be available to a Fordham grad. It may not drastically alter whether OP gets a biglaw job, but it very well may create more options in general.

User avatar
98234872348
Posts: 1547
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:34 pm

macattaq wrote:
mistergoft wrote:I tend to vote for Fordham in this situation. I don't think your job prospects will improve substantially (if at all) by transferring.


Probably, but I tend to think that access to Columbia/NYU alumni networks will create possibilities that just won't be available to a Fordham grad. It may not drastically alter whether OP gets a biglaw job, but it very well may create more options in general.

Yeah bro but the way I see it, there is almost no way he'll strike out at OCI from Fordham, but I've heard that transfers to CCN struck out this year.

Something to think about. Also, I think access to alumni networks might be subordinated to having a great gpa on your resume from a good school.

User avatar
apper123
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby apper123 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:37 pm

I'd have to imagine he'd be interviewing with many of the same employers at CN as he would at Fordham... why would there be any difference?

The only thing I can think of is they have strict quotas for # of students from each school, I guess?

User avatar
sanpiero
Posts: 574
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:09 am

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby sanpiero » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:42 pm

mistergoft wrote:
macattaq wrote:
mistergoft wrote:I tend to vote for Fordham in this situation. I don't think your job prospects will improve substantially (if at all) by transferring.


Probably, but I tend to think that access to Columbia/NYU alumni networks will create possibilities that just won't be available to a Fordham grad. It may not drastically alter whether OP gets a biglaw job, but it very well may create more options in general.

Yeah bro but the way I see it, there is almost no way he'll strike out at OCI from Fordham, but I've heard that transfers to CCN struck out this year.

Something to think about. Also, I think access to alumni networks might be subordinated to having a great gpa on your resume from a good school.


This is the sort of data you need to try to gather, OP, as a PP said. How did T10%/LR students do at fall OCI this year at your school? Are there other transfers who struck out at CLS/NYU OCI in '09? Are there others that did quite well? I don't see how having T10%/LR from Fordham on your resume is substantially less helpful to your career than having, say, T30% from CLS/NYU. But, I very well could be underestimating the degree of prestige-whoredom in NYC BL.

User avatar
98234872348
Posts: 1547
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:45 pm

sanpiero wrote:I don't see how having T10%/LR from Fordham on your resume is substantially less helpful to your career than having, say, T30% from CLS/NYU.

But he has the former, and the latter is somewhat of a crapshoot in terms of estimating.

User avatar
sanpiero
Posts: 574
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:09 am

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby sanpiero » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:48 pm

mistergoft wrote:
sanpiero wrote:I don't see how having T10%/LR from Fordham on your resume is substantially less helpful to your career than having, say, T30% from CLS/NYU.

But he has the former, and the latter is somewhat of a crapshoot in terms of estimating.


I think we agree. What I was saying is that the T30% estimate is likely a best case scenario, so I'd recommend remaining at Fordham.

imchuckbass58
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:24 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:59 pm

I think you're fine either way. You'll be doing OCI this summer. If you stay at Fordham, you'll have top 10% + law review, which gives you substantially the same opportunities as CN. If you transfer, they'll see that you were top 10% at Fordham, and that will still be impressive, regardless of whether or not you make law review at CN.

A couple of things to keep in mind.
-At Columbia, there are 40 law review slots each year. Only 10 of these are open to transfers (the write on slots) - they do not consider transfers' grades. So if you want to get on law review, you'll have to get one of the top 10 writing competition scores (competing with most of the 1L class plus 40 transfers). I don't like those odds.

-If you want to work outside of NYC, transfer. All the NYC firms know fordham, and most of them come to fordham OCI. Not all firms in other markets hold fordham in high regard, and they certainly come to Fordham OCI in smaller numbers.
Last edited by imchuckbass58 on Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:12 pm

Find out specifically how NYU/CLS will treat you at OCI. If they will let you bid with everyone else, I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. If there is any-however slight-handicap as to how you'll participate in early interviews at the new school, I think this alone might keep me from transferring.

User avatar
98234872348
Posts: 1547
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:23 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:-If you want to work outside of NYC, transfer. All the NYC firms know fordham, and most of them come to fordham OCI. Not all firms in other markets hold fordham in high regard, and they certainly come to Fordham OCI in smaller numbers.

This advice is credited. I assumed OP wanted to work in NYC based on attending Fordham, though.

User avatar
OperaSoprano
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:54 am

Re: Losing your GPA and Law Review at new school..still worth it

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:19 pm

ZXCVBNM, were you done with your brief when you started this thread? If so, I hate you so much. :lol:

You've obviously had a kick ass first semester. I can't go posting up my GPA, for rather obvious reasons. It's bad enough that I told one person in my section.

I do think you'll have wonderful options if you stay. You know how much I love our school. I also have the most tremendous regard for both Columbia and NYU. I don't think you need to leave to get a kick ass job, but you need to do what will make you happy. I've heard of transfer students striking out at OCI, but I've also heard of them doing remarkably well. The people I know on law review at our school are set, so yeah, back to the personal happiness thing.




Return to “Transfers”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.