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A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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A'nold
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......

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:49 pm

So, I finished #5 out of 1**, yet I am the #1 student in my section. There are only two sections.....does that mean that the other section had a significantly higher GPA? From what I hear, only 2 or 3 at most of the top 10 students are from my section, most likely only 2.

Also, does anyone think being #1 in your section mean more than just being the #5 student if there are only 2 sections? Thanks.
Last edited by A'nold on Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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apper123
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby apper123 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:38 pm

It's possible the curves were sharper in the other section, resulting in more As being given out.

Or maybe those same 3 people got the 3 highest grades in every class. The people who got the highest grades in all of my section's classes were pretty consistent. I had one class in my section with an extremely flat curve, and it cost me an A. I wouldn't say I was "screwed," though. That's just how it works. It will all even out in the end most likely. Plus the difference between that A and A- was marginal for me in the rankings. I wouldn't have been #1, so I'd still be reporting "top 5%."

I'm 100 % positive 4 of the top 5 people here are in 2 of the 3 sections. I'm pretty sure I know who the 5th is, and I think he is in my section, putting 3 in mine, 2 in another and 0 in the 3rd. *shrug*

You also may be tied at #5.

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A'nold
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:08 pm

apper123 wrote:It's possible the curves were sharper in the other section, resulting in more As being given out.

Or maybe those same 3 people got the 3 highest grades in every class. The people who got the highest grades in all of my section's classes were pretty consistent. I had one class in my section with an extremely flat curve, and it cost me an A. I wouldn't say I was "screwed," though. That's just how it works. It will all even out in the end most likely. Plus the difference between that A and A- was marginal for me in the rankings. I wouldn't have been #1, so I'd still be reporting "top 5%."

I'm 100 % positive 4 of the top 5 people here are in 2 of the 3 sections. I'm pretty sure I know who the 5th is, and I think he is in my section, putting 3 in mine, 2 in another and 0 in the 3rd. *shrug*

You also may be tied at #5.


Yeah, I kind of see that, however, there were only 2 sections....it just seems to me like too much of a coincidence that 8 of the top 10 and the first 4 of the overall class were in the other section. I'm actually not so bothered by it for me, but think about being the 3rd best student in a section out of only 2 sections and being outside the top 10.......seems like something fishy is going on.

Edit: screwed may be too harsh a term. I feel very blessed and fortunate to be in my position. However, I have a feeling that the sections were stacked and that I was in the "harder" section based on grading and competition. It seems more scholarship people were in my section w/ a top 1/3 requirement to keep it. I could be completely off though.

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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby 270910 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:13 pm

You're completely off. You had exactly the same opportunities as the other section, and 'section staking' is a horrible myth that gets propagated like urban legend.

I'd bet all the money I had that the average GPAs of the two sections are functionally identical.

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apper123
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby apper123 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:28 pm

The people who received one of the top scholarship honors here (part of which is dependent on a top 30 % ranking requirement) have to enroll in a program, so who they are is well known. They are evenly split among all the sections. There are other scholarships that don't require the program, and the GPA requirement for them is basically "don't fail out," so I assume the same goes for those 'ships.

I really doubt many law schools, if any, practice section stacking. Miami was accused of it constantly, and they have always denied it.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:47 pm

We have 4 sections and the top 3 overall and 5 of the 13 LR invitees are in the same section. Just the way things shake out with the forced curve. You could argue that the other sections are "stacked" and as a result there is more parity at the top allowing for top students in the other sections to get higher grades because of less competition.

For the record I think that section stacking is a myth.

Maybe OP's profs had more discretion with the curve and the other section received more A's overall which caused the GPAs to be higher.

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A'nold
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:44 pm

Yeah, I guess all of these things are possible. It's just that I've talked to quite a few of the other section's students and I have not met one that even met the median LSAT (yet) of the school and most that I've talked to in my section are here on a scholly and have decent (for the school) LSAT scores....maybe it just ended up that way by accident, I don't know.

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A'nold
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:48 pm

disco_barred wrote:You're completely off. You had exactly the same opportunities as the other section, and 'section staking' is a horrible myth that gets propagated like urban legend.

I'd bet all the money I had that the average GPAs of the two sections are functionally identical.


I completely disagree with the bolded above. In many of my classes there was only one A given......not so in the other sections. I would have had to be the lone A in two of my classes to even have a fighting chance at top 3. While that is "possible" it is highly unfair that with the arbitrariness that can come b/w an A and A- a student should be expected to be the lone straight A student when two classes only offered 1 A. It is possible, but that's only one student that actually came close, me, since I am the top student in my section and I did not pull straight A's.

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apper123
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby apper123 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:51 pm

A'nold wrote:
disco_barred wrote:You're completely off. You had exactly the same opportunities as the other section, and 'section staking' is a horrible myth that gets propagated like urban legend.

I'd bet all the money I had that the average GPAs of the two sections are functionally identical.


I completely disagree with the bolded above. In many of my classes there was only one A given......not so in the other sections. I would have had to be the lone A in two of my classes to even have a fighting chance at top 3. While that is "possible" it is highly unfair that with the arbitrariness that can come b/w an A and A- a student should be expected to be the lone straight A student when two classes only offered 1 A. It is possible, but that's only one student that actually came close, me, since I am the top student in my section and I did not pull straight A's.


You say this like the professor set how many As he will give out before the exam. This likely is not often so. In my CivPro class the highest exam was so much higher than everyone else that only 2 As were given out, when 4-5 would usually be the norm. Now you say well that's unfair, but if you look at it the other way it's unfair to the guy with the highest A that he did so well, but people over a standard deviation below him still got an A too.

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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby 270910 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:53 pm

A'nold wrote:
disco_barred wrote:You're completely off. You had exactly the same opportunities as the other section, and 'section staking' is a horrible myth that gets propagated like urban legend.

I'd bet all the money I had that the average GPAs of the two sections are functionally identical.


I completely disagree with the bolded above. In many of my classes there was only one A given....


There would have been more As if they had been earned. Sorry, but law school curves aren't completely arbitrary the way you seem to think they are.

(I see Apper123 made the same point)

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A'nold
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:00 pm

My school sets the curve at a 2.7. And actually, at least one of my professors is known as setting his curve to only give so many A's, so I'm not exactly sure where you guys are coming from with the whole "you earn an A, you get an A" claim. I would be agreeing with you guys if it were like even 1 out of 4 of the top students were in a section but they were a top 3 student or if there were more than 2 sections. But 8 out of 10 of the top 10 students being in one section seems too odd to be a coincidence to me. Maybe you guys are more optimistic than I am. :)

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apper123
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby apper123 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:07 pm

How large are your sections?

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s0ph1e2007
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby s0ph1e2007 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:54 pm

. ha
sorry!
Last edited by s0ph1e2007 on Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby 270910 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:02 am

s0ph1e2007 wrote:From an admissions stand point it doesnt really matter.
Stuff like this happens all the time.
For instance, my major has the lowest average gpa of any possible major at my UG, and although given another candidate who has the exact same numbers as I do this fact may push me over the edge, it wont help me be admitted over an applicant from my school in the easiest major with a gpa .1 or .2 higher than me.

Just how it is. Sorry.
But congrats on doing so well, I'm sure it will be enough, given a good LSAT, for T14 schools.


...he's a law student. This is a forum for law students considering transferring.

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kings84_wr
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby kings84_wr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:15 am

While it probably won't make too much of difference, Im sure getting to put #1 in the section still looks really impressive. yeah you very well may have gotten unlucky in prof selection, but maybe it would have been tougher in the other section too. I think in the end things tend to balance out, there is some luck involved, and errant grading, but the more grades you get the more consistent things will be, at least thats what I keep telling myself. Some profs just tend to like to grade toward the median which diminishes the amount of A's and some profs love to spread out the grades, and thus can give out more top grades.

Congrats on being tops in the section though. I wonder how a school like G-town treats a school like yours that ranks after the first semester vs. schools that don't rank. I only have a pretty broad understanding of where I am rank wise.

and you seem to attract 0L advice here, you should add a disclaimer on your next thread, since apparently being the law school transfers section is not enough :)

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A'nold
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby A'nold » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:24 am

kings84_wr wrote:While it probably won't make too much of difference, Im sure getting to put #1 in the section still looks really impressive. yeah you very well may have gotten unlucky in prof selection, but maybe it would have been tougher in the other section too. I think in the end things tend to balance out, there is some luck involved, and errant grading, but the more grades you get the more consistent things will be, at least thats what I keep telling myself. Some profs just tend to like to grade toward the median which diminishes the amount of A's and some profs love to spread out the grades, and thus can give out more top grades.

Congrats on being tops in the section though. I wonder how a school like G-town treats a school like yours that ranks after the first semester vs. schools that don't rank. I only have a pretty broad understanding of where I am rank wise.

and you seem to attract 0L advice here, you should add a disclaimer on your next thread, since apparently being the law school transfers section is not enough :)


Lol! Yeah, I do attract 0L's. :)

Anyway, thanks for weighing in guys, I feel more assured that this could have just been the way the cookies crumbled.

Does anyone think that being able to put #1 in section out of 2 sections will possibly mean more for GULC EA than if I was #5 overall and like 3rd in my section? Or does it not matter? Thanks again.

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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby 270910 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:36 am

A'nold wrote:
kings84_wr wrote:While it probably won't make too much of difference, Im sure getting to put #1 in the section still looks really impressive. yeah you very well may have gotten unlucky in prof selection, but maybe it would have been tougher in the other section too. I think in the end things tend to balance out, there is some luck involved, and errant grading, but the more grades you get the more consistent things will be, at least thats what I keep telling myself. Some profs just tend to like to grade toward the median which diminishes the amount of A's and some profs love to spread out the grades, and thus can give out more top grades.

Congrats on being tops in the section though. I wonder how a school like G-town treats a school like yours that ranks after the first semester vs. schools that don't rank. I only have a pretty broad understanding of where I am rank wise.

and you seem to attract 0L advice here, you should add a disclaimer on your next thread, since apparently being the law school transfers section is not enough :)


Lol! Yeah, I do attract 0L's. :)

Anyway, thanks for weighing in guys, I feel more assured that this could have just been the way the cookies crumbled.

Does anyone think that being able to put #1 in section out of 2 sections will possibly mean more for GULC EA than if I was #5 overall and like 3rd in my section? Or does it not matter? Thanks again.


I'd just put "First semester GPA: ____; Ranked first in section" on your resume.

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A'nold
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby A'nold » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:03 pm

disco_barred wrote:
A'nold wrote:
kings84_wr wrote:While it probably won't make too much of difference, Im sure getting to put #1 in the section still looks really impressive. yeah you very well may have gotten unlucky in prof selection, but maybe it would have been tougher in the other section too. I think in the end things tend to balance out, there is some luck involved, and errant grading, but the more grades you get the more consistent things will be, at least thats what I keep telling myself. Some profs just tend to like to grade toward the median which diminishes the amount of A's and some profs love to spread out the grades, and thus can give out more top grades.

Congrats on being tops in the section though. I wonder how a school like G-town treats a school like yours that ranks after the first semester vs. schools that don't rank. I only have a pretty broad understanding of where I am rank wise.

and you seem to attract 0L advice here, you should add a disclaimer on your next thread, since apparently being the law school transfers section is not enough :)


Lol! Yeah, I do attract 0L's. :)

Anyway, thanks for weighing in guys, I feel more assured that this could have just been the way the cookies crumbled.

Does anyone think that being able to put #1 in section out of 2 sections will possibly mean more for GULC EA than if I was #5 overall and like 3rd in my section? Or does it not matter? Thanks again.


I'd just put "First semester GPA: ____; Ranked first in section" on your resume.


Yeah, I can see that. Do you think they even really look at your resume?


Also, where do you guys think I should be applying? I am top 4.23% or something like that, does that mean I can say top 4% or just top 5%? Haha, I sound stupid but man I want to gain any slight advantage I can since I am coming from a t3.

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apper123
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby apper123 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:10 pm

i was just barely barely barely over 3 %, but i felt like i shouldn't ever say "top 3%" on an actual application even if it was like 3.1%

i just gave a #/xxx instead

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A'nold
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby A'nold » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:17 pm

apper123 wrote:i was just barely barely barely over 3 %, but i felt like i shouldn't ever say "top 3%" on an actual application even if it was like 3.1%

i just gave a #/xxx instead



Yeah, I wonder what we should actually put if there is a . something. I always thought that like a top 6.5% would have to say top 7% but the more I think about it you should probably be able to say top 6%, I don't know.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:24 pm

A'nold wrote:Lol! Yeah, I do attract 0L's. :)

Anyway, thanks for weighing in guys, I feel more assured that this could have just been the way the cookies crumbled.

Does anyone think that being able to put #1 in section out of 2 sections will possibly mean more for GULC EA than if I was #5 overall and like 3rd in my section? Or does it not matter? Thanks again.


Perhaps if you have some interesting "softs", it will help separate you from other candidates! :mrgreen:

BTW, congrat's A'nold on having an OUTSTANDING semester!

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SamSeaborn2016
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby SamSeaborn2016 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:28 pm

I don't have much to add here as I'm still a 0L but I would like to say congrats to you A'nold. I'm glad to see you doing so well.

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A'nold
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby A'nold » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:29 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
A'nold wrote:Lol! Yeah, I do attract 0L's. :)

Anyway, thanks for weighing in guys, I feel more assured that this could have just been the way the cookies crumbled.

Does anyone think that being able to put #1 in section out of 2 sections will possibly mean more for GULC EA than if I was #5 overall and like 3rd in my section? Or does it not matter? Thanks again.


Perhaps if you have some interesting "softs", it will help separate you from other candidates! :mrgreen:

BTW, congrat's A'nold on having an OUTSTANDING semester!


Thanks! Are you talking about my secret softs? :wink:

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A'nold
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby A'nold » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:29 pm

SamSeaborn2016 wrote:I don't have much to add here as I'm still a 0L but I would like to say congrats to you A'nold. I'm glad to see you doing so well.


Hey! What schools have you been accepted to/where are you considering?

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kings84_wr
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Re: Class Rank Question: Was I Screwed?

Postby kings84_wr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:57 pm

at least you guys have a rank to put on your resume. I don't get to put, top 5% according to last years class or anything like that haha.




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