Top 25% at MVP to ?????

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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YouAin'tGonnaKnow
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Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby YouAin'tGonnaKnow » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:12 pm

1L at MVP, ended first semester smack on the top quarter mark.

I want to go BigLaw in my home secondary market on the west coast. That's looking increasingly tough ITE, however - one person at my school had similar grades and came up with nothing at OCI in the secondary market (despite getting offers from MoFo, Wilson Sonsini, and others in the Bay Area).

So it's gotten me worried. If I can't get a BigLaw job in my hometown, I'd most like to be in LA or SF. I'd settle for NYC. I love it at my current school but would entertain the possibility of a transfer, especially if I can go somewhere that would give me better placement in NY/CA because I think I might be happier in a bigger city.

Chances at CCN and Boalt? Wisdom of actually transferring to CCN or Boalt?

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kittenmittons
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby kittenmittons » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:16 pm

YouAin'tGonnaKnow wrote:1L at MVP, ended first semester smack on the top quarter mark.

I want to go BigLaw in my home secondary market on the west coast. That's looking increasingly tough ITE, however - one person at my school had similar grades and came up with nothing at OCI in the secondary market (despite getting offers from MoFo, Wilson Sonsini, and others in the Bay Area).

So it's gotten me worried. If I can't get a BigLaw job in my hometown, I'd most like to be in LA or SF. I'd settle for NYC. I love it at my current school but would entertain the possibility of a transfer, especially if I can go somewhere that would give me better placement in NY/CA because I think I might be happier in a bigger city.

Chances at CCN and Boalt? Wisdom of actually transferring to CCN or Boalt?


I wouldn't base this decision on one anecdote of someone striking out at OCI. Top quarter at Michigan should be enough for a BigLaw gig if you are a solid interviewer/aren't aspie.

270910
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby 270910 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:14 pm

Even if you can get in, your interviewers are going to see your 1L grades from your first school. In your heart of hearts, do you really think your GPA from MVP is going to cause you to fail to get a job unless you transfer to CCN? It's your GPA either way, it's not like a transfer from a T2 to a T14 where you'll be getting more interviews.

fortissimo
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby fortissimo » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:06 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
YouAin'tGonnaKnow wrote:1L at MVP, ended first semester smack on the top quarter mark.

I want to go BigLaw in my home secondary market on the west coast. That's looking increasingly tough ITE, however - one person at my school had similar grades and came up with nothing at OCI in the secondary market (despite getting offers from MoFo, Wilson Sonsini, and others in the Bay Area).

So it's gotten me worried. If I can't get a BigLaw job in my hometown, I'd most like to be in LA or SF. I'd settle for NYC. I love it at my current school but would entertain the possibility of a transfer, especially if I can go somewhere that would give me better placement in NY/CA because I think I might be happier in a bigger city.

Chances at CCN and Boalt? Wisdom of actually transferring to CCN or Boalt?


I wouldn't base this decision on one anecdote of someone striking out at OCI. Top quarter at Michigan should be enough for a BigLaw gig if you are a solid interviewer/aren't aspie.


Pretty sure the OP goes to Virginia, and he didn't say the person "struck out" completely at OCI. His friend only struck out in the secondary market, but got multiple offers from v100 offices though, which is pretty impressive ITE. Top 25% at Virginia is more than enough to get biglaw in California and New York. Secondary markets are unpredictable, but you will get NY/CA with solid grades from UVA.

I think transferring would be stupid because you lose your class rank and your grades (which are pretty solid), but that's just my opinion. You would have to start all over, and with your grades, why would you want to? I would be very surprised if you didn't land a biglaw job in CA/NY out of UVA's OCI with your grades.

(Also, this is just anecdotal, but I've heard Boalt's OCI went worse than UVA's. I know someone on California Law Review at Boalt with no job.)

MarkTwain
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby MarkTwain » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:00 pm

Top 25% at Virginia is more than enough to get biglaw in California and New York. Secondary markets are unpredictable, but you will get NY/CA with solid grades from UVA.


This is ordinarily true, but false ITE. Top 25% is not "more than enough" for these markets right now.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby XxSpyKEx » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:24 pm

It would only make sense if you were to transfer to HYS. You'll need to pull strait As this semester to do that (no A-s).

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chadwick218
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:52 pm

Although clearly outside of MVP, I believe that I am in the top 10-20% at NU (at least extrapolating from latin honors given at graduation). My hope is to transfer to CCN or possibly P (given some personal preferences).

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chadwick218
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:54 pm

I have become aware of a few folks last year who were in the top 20-25% at an MPP who transferred to NYU.

270910
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby 270910 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:57 pm

Making the transfer is not the hard part, getting any tangible benefit from it is. If you want the adventure or a new city, by all means, go for it. But a DNCG or MVP -> CCN transfer just isn't going to give you an employment bboost.

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chadwick218
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:03 pm

disco_barred wrote:Making the transfer is not the hard part, getting any tangible benefit from it is. If you want the adventure or a new city, by all means, go for it. But a DNCG or MVP -> CCN transfer just isn't going to give you an employment bboost.


Outside of someone looking to change regions, I think that this is a very valid point. If I am able to transfer, my motivation will have very little to do with any potential boost in employment.

fortissimo
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:19 pm

MarkTwain wrote:
Top 25% at Virginia is more than enough to get biglaw in California and New York. Secondary markets are unpredictable, but you will get NY/CA with solid grades from UVA.


This is ordinarily true, but false ITE. Top 25% is not "more than enough" for these markets right now.


My friend at Michigan (non-URM) got callbacks in New York with sub-median grades. Top 25% should be alright in NYC (one of the easier markets) unless you have a horrible personality.

fortissimo
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:20 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:It would only make sense if you were to transfer to HYS. You'll need to pull strait As this semester to do that (no A-s).


Agree with this. CCN wouldn't offer many tangible benefits. A big downside would be that you would lose all your grades and have to start over.

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chadwick218
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:25 pm

I agree that there is very little in the way of tangible benefits, but I believe that the intangible benefits may be paramount for some. I think that there is a lot to be said about feeling proud to tell people where you graduated from law school. If transfering up a couple of spots will allow you to do this, then I am all for it!

fortissimo
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:29 pm

chadwick218 wrote:I agree that there is very little in the way of tangible benefits, but I believe that the intangible benefits may be paramount for some. I think that there is a lot to be said about feeling proud to tell people where you graduated from law school. If transfering up a couple of spots will allow you to do this, then I am all for it!


You aren't proud to tell people you go to Northwestern? For one, it has a lot more "prestige" in other academic fields than NYU does. Overall Northwestern is a better institution than NYU. CCN is far from Harvard in terms of the "prestige" factor too...I don't get it.

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chadwick218
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:42 pm

fortissimo wrote:You aren't proud to tell people you go to Northwestern? For one, it has a lot more "prestige" in other academic fields than NYU does. Overall Northwestern is a better institution than NYU. CCN is far from Harvard in terms of the "prestige" factor too...I don't get it.


Although the only "primary" discipline where NU is not ranked higher than NYU is law, the lay prestige still seems to favor NYU.

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Son of Cicero
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby Son of Cicero » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:47 pm

fortissimo wrote:(Also, this is just anecdotal, but I've heard Boalt's OCI went worse than UVA's. I know someone on California Law Review at Boalt with no job.)

Is this all the evidence you have? There is no grading component in the competition to make it onto the California Law Review, meaning this person could have gotten straight P's and still have written onto CLR. That little bullet point on the resume is not going to effectively give anyone a 25% boost in class rank.

Also, a student from UChicago said that he knew at least one person on law review who struck out at OCI. So I guess UVa > Chicago, too?

fortissimo
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:48 pm

chadwick218 wrote:
fortissimo wrote:You aren't proud to tell people you go to Northwestern? For one, it has a lot more "prestige" in other academic fields than NYU does. Overall Northwestern is a better institution than NYU. CCN is far from Harvard in terms of the "prestige" factor too...I don't get it.


Although the only "primary" discipline where NU is not ranked higher than NYU is law, the lay prestige still seems to favor NYU.


Weird...not in my experience. Maybe it's a regional thing (I'm from the West).

09042014
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:48 pm

chadwick218 wrote:
fortissimo wrote:You aren't proud to tell people you go to Northwestern? For one, it has a lot more "prestige" in other academic fields than NYU does. Overall Northwestern is a better institution than NYU. CCN is far from Harvard in terms of the "prestige" factor too...I don't get it.


Although the only "primary" discipline where NU is not ranked higher than NYU is law, the lay prestige still seems to favor NYU.


Depends where you want to practice. NYU has very poor lay prestige outside of NYC.

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chadwick218
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:49 pm

Son of Cicero wrote:Also, a student from UChicago said that he knew at least one person on law review who struck out at OCI. So I guess UVa > Chicago, too?


I know of a couple of folks on law review at NU that struck out in OCI. There were significantly more who struck out who are on the most esteemed seconday journal.

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chadwick218
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:51 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Depends where you want to practice. NYU has very poor lay prestige outside of NYC.


My goal is to pursue a JD/LLM in Taxation. I would like to practice in either NYC, LA (strong ties), or TX (strong ties)

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RVP11
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby RVP11 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:53 pm

There's probably at least one person on nearly every law review who struck out. Employers got a lot more selective based on grades, but probably even moreso on personality/fit.

09042014
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:53 pm

chadwick218 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Depends where you want to practice. NYU has very poor lay prestige outside of NYC.


My goal is to pursue a JD/LLM in Taxation. I would like to practice in either NYC, LA (strong ties), or TX (strong ties)


Can you do that combo in three years if you transfer. Because that's a pretty good reason imo.

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chadwick218
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:55 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:There's probably at least one person on nearly every law review who struck out. Employers got a lot more selective based on grades, but probably even moreso on personality/fit.


Precisely. This was indeed the case with those who struck out at NU. Also, there were some people who simply did not use their bids appropriately and maybe had unrealistic expectations going into OCI (i.e. I am in the top 10% and there is no way that at least one V25 firm will fail to extend me an offer).

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chadwick218
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:56 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Depends where you want to practice. NYU has very poor lay prestige outside of NYC.


My goal is to pursue a JD/LLM in Taxation. I would like to practice in either NYC, LA (strong ties), or TX (strong ties)


Can you do that combo in three years if you transfer. Because that's a pretty good reason imo.


At NU you can do the JD / LLM in 6 semesters. At NYU, it is technically 7, but having asked around, I have discovered that it is indeed possible to do in 6.

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apper123
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Re: Top 25% at MVP to ?????

Postby apper123 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:00 pm

chadwick218 wrote:
fortissimo wrote:You aren't proud to tell people you go to Northwestern? For one, it has a lot more "prestige" in other academic fields than NYU does. Overall Northwestern is a better institution than NYU. CCN is far from Harvard in terms of the "prestige" factor too...I don't get it.


Although the only "primary" discipline where NU is not ranked higher than NYU is law, the lay prestige still seems to favor NYU.


Everyone I know in PA down south is always shocked to hear NYU is a top law school. They all assume it's just a good regional school. Some people have never heard of it.

Northwestern on the other hand? Everyone knows Northwestern.

All that said, this should probably play 0 into your decision of where to go unless it will affect job prospects somehow.




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