Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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patrickd139
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:40 pm

Simpler Times wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Simpler Times wrote:The humor of my grade situation is that if I get the same grades next semester I will break into the top ten percent by a fairly decent margin.


huh?


I am borderline top 10%, the GPA cutoff for top 10% drops significantly for second semester. If I get the same GPA again, I break through that line.


This assumes you repeat your performance and the rest of your class does not also repeat their last semester performances. This may be the correct answer, but your logic makes me skeptical.

Simpler Times
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby Simpler Times » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:13 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
Simpler Times wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Simpler Times wrote:The humor of my grade situation is that if I get the same grades next semester I will break into the top ten percent by a fairly decent margin.


huh?


I am borderline top 10%, the GPA cutoff for top 10% drops significantly for second semester. If I get the same GPA again, I break through that line.


This assumes you repeat your performance and the rest of your class does not also repeat their last semester performances. This may be the correct answer, but your logic makes me skeptical.


I'm not sure I can repeat my performance, and honestly I'd be a nutcase if I was confident that I could, but we have pretty good numbers showing that a lot of the class trips and falls at least a little bit this semester.

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patrickd139
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:17 pm

Simpler Times wrote:I'm not sure I can repeat my performance, and honestly I'd be a nutcase if I was confident that I could, but we have pretty good numbers showing that a lot of the class trips and falls at least a little bit this semester.


You're getting warmer...

Omerta
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby Omerta » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:00 am

Reviving this thread for projections so there's not 2934 threads about individual people. I would like to increase my scholarship at a T25. Is an acceptance from a higher ranked law school a must? How successful have people who negotiated scholarships been at getting more money? I have a little more than a half-ride.

rollingby
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby rollingby » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:47 am

It's not a "must", but it kinda depends on the school. Some schools just automatically give retention scholarships, some have to be convinced, and others don't at all. I'd ask a couple 2Ls or 3Ls on LR, but it's probably a good idea to have a GULC EA acceptance in hand just in case.

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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby PolemisLopez » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:10 pm

Well, I didn't exactly "Own" exams, but...

I'm a 1L at a lower Tier2. GPA after 1st semester is a 3.34 (roughly top 15-20%). This school has a brutal curve. It also completely owns this market, but my fiancee has said that she refuses to stay here after graduation. She wants to go back to our home state. In the home state there's one similarly ranked tier 2 and 2 T30's.

Do you guys think I have a chance at one of the T30's? Would it be worth it to transfer to the Tier2 in homestate and compete with the T30 grads or should I just spend the next 2 years trying to convince her this place ain't so bad?

I welcome any thoughts.

lawloser22
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby lawloser22 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:43 pm

PolemisLopez wrote:Well, I didn't exactly "Own" exams, but...

I'm a 1L at a lower Tier2. GPA after 1st semester is a 3.34 (roughly top 15-20%). This school has a brutal curve. It also completely owns this market, but my fiancee has said that she refuses to stay here after graduation. She wants to go back to our home state. In the home state there's one similarly ranked tier 2 and 2 T30's.

Do you guys think I have a chance at one of the T30's? Would it be worth it to transfer to the Tier2 in homestate and compete with the T30 grads or should I just spend the next 2 years trying to convince her this place ain't so bad?

I welcome any thoughts.


Yeah I think you have a chance, especially if you're safely in top 15% after next semester. In regards to the T2, if you're dead-set on practicing there, then yeah, if not, probably not. You're not, so stay put.

Sounds like you're describing MA, if so, it's going to be extremely difficult to find a job there from your current school. Own exams this semester and transfer to BC.

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APHill
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby APHill » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:03 pm

Anybody heard anything about top 25% at W&L transferring to UVA? I know it is not a lock, but what are the chances?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:25 pm

APHill wrote:Anybody heard anything about top 25% at W&L transferring to UVA? I know it is not a lock, but what are the chances?

I don't know the numbers of people who transferred into UVA last year, so I can't directly answer your question. However, I can provide the following:

1) Top 25% sounds rather low to me, especially since UVA only takes something like 10-12 transfers a year, and competition for them is fierce.

2) Across the board it seemed like transfer app numbers were up everywhere. I think more people are willing to transfer due to the economy and everyone feeling the need to get a leg up on their peers.

3) If you're in-state that helps you out tremendously, since UVA greatly prefers people with VA residency in order to boost their in-state percentages.

4) Transfer cycles are unpredictable and some people with "good enough" grades but an excellent application otherwise can sometimes outshine someone with better grades. Your application (especially your PS and how well it ties everything together) could make the difference for you.

5) Try to learn from your exams and do even better in the spring, and you'll further increase your odds of getting in. It's not impossible to do significantly better second semester, and if you approach the spring with the attitude that you must learn how to do better and then do it, you may find yourself in better shape then.

If you really want to attend UVA and you're in-state, I would recommend applying, knowing your odds are low but not necessarily impossible.

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VinceIrons
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby VinceIrons » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:06 pm

So here's my deal, and I would really appreciate some objective advice as I just (probably foolishly) talked to the academic office about transferring, and the response was less than encouraging.

I currently have a 3.75GPA at a mid-80 ranked school (Hofstra, if that matters), which should put me near the top of the class. Can't say for sure though, since rankings haven't been released and I'm not sure where I could find info on comparing rankings to GPA. Anyway, I am a southern boy at heart (grew up in Kentucky, went to Vanderbilt for undergrad), and I'm realizing that I absolutely cannot picture myself working in New York. Though I don't doubt that I'd be able to get a decent job in NY graduating near the top of my class, I really don't want to live the rest of my life (or at least the foreseeable future) up here, and I highly doubt a JD from Hofstra will get me a job in the south.

Right now, my number one choice would be to transfer to Vanderbilt as I loved my time in undergrad there, Nashville is fantastic, and my girlfriend's brother goes there and loves it. Of course, if I can make it into something like NYU, Columbia, or Cornell (I'm assuming HYS is out of reach), I could put up with two more years of NY if it meant I'd have decent prospects of a job further south.

So my main question is, what are my prospects at getting in to a lower t20 like Vandy, Emory, WashU, what are my prospects for higher ranked southern schools like UVA / Duke, and what's the consensus on the DC schools and why the hype? And of course, is it worth it? I've read through Arrow's post a few times, as well as this thread, and most people seem to be saying t14 or bust. But is it worth transferring to a t20 (or even t25, gasp!) if it's in the region I actually plan to live/work in?

Thanks in advance for any replies / advice.

Oh also, should I be talking to professors and not the actual academic administration? I have a few professors I know will give me excellent recs, I just worry about any ill will they might bear if I tell them this early in the semester that I'm considering transferring.

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Arrow
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby Arrow » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:59 pm

VinceIrons wrote:So here's my deal, and I would really appreciate some objective advice as I just (probably foolishly) talked to the academic office about transferring, and the response was less than encouraging.

I currently have a 3.75GPA at a mid-80 ranked school (Hofstra, if that matters), which should put me near the top of the class. Can't say for sure though, since rankings haven't been released and I'm not sure where I could find info on comparing rankings to GPA. Anyway, I am a southern boy at heart (grew up in Kentucky, went to Vanderbilt for undergrad), and I'm realizing that I absolutely cannot picture myself working in New York. Though I don't doubt that I'd be able to get a decent job in NY graduating near the top of my class, I really don't want to live the rest of my life (or at least the foreseeable future) up here, and I highly doubt a JD from Hofstra will get me a job in the south.

Right now, my number one choice would be to transfer to Vanderbilt as I loved my time in undergrad there, Nashville is fantastic, and my girlfriend's brother goes there and loves it. Of course, if I can make it into something like NYU, Columbia, or Cornell (I'm assuming HYS is out of reach), I could put up with two more years of NY if it meant I'd have decent prospects of a job further south.

So my main question is, what are my prospects at getting in to a lower t20 like Vandy, Emory, WashU, what are my prospects for higher ranked southern schools like UVA / Duke, and what's the consensus on the DC schools and why the hype? And of course, is it worth it? I've read through Arrow's post a few times, as well as this thread, and most people seem to be saying t14 or bust. But is it worth transferring to a t20 (or even t25, gasp!) if it's in the region I actually plan to live/work in?

Thanks in advance for any replies / advice.

Oh also, should I be talking to professors and not the actual academic administration? I have a few professors I know will give me excellent recs, I just worry about any ill will they might bear if I tell them this early in the semester that I'm considering transferring.


Hey friend, you should transfer. Congrats on the grades as well. You have the right grades and a strong reason for transferring to Vanderbilt, so why not? I do not think it is T14 or bust, and the line between Top 14 and Top 20 is not huge, especially if you do not care so much about moving around nationally. If you want to practice in Tennessee, then you should really consider going there over Georgetown or something (which is fine as well).

If your grades were anything like my school, you are definitely in the top 10%, which makes you well qualified for T14's. This means you should also have no problem getting into the lower 20-25th ranked schools. If you keep the same grades you have now, transferring to these schools should be no problem.

If you are in the top 5%, then NYU/Columbia is within reach. Our top 5% cutoff was around 3.6-3.7, so if Hofstra is anything like ours, your ranking should be up there as well. Either way, I would consider an early application to Georgetown.

On a side note, I also did not find the administration to be of much help. Then again, in retrospect, they handled "administrative" stuff and were not familiar with transferring. When I went there, they also had a shocked look on their face as if I was suddenly put on high alert.

Professors are much more helpful, as they also went to law school. I did not talk to my professors until second semester grades came out, mostly because I was a bit afraid (or paranoid I admit) that it could have affected my grades. I also did not want to waste the professor's time if my grades that came out turned out to be terrible and then I could not transfer or something. Some students talked to professors during the semester, which seemed to work fine, especially if it was a professor from last semester. I think whether you go see them is a matter of personal comfort (for example, I was scared out of my mind), and it also really depends on what kind of a professor it was and what his/her opinions are on transferring. Of course, if you do an early application, you have to start talking now.

It is totally worth it, but I am totally biased.

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tww909
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby tww909 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:52 pm

i'm interested in getting some opinions as well. here are the facts:

i have a 3.75 (top 5%) after 1st semester at a wisconsin. i am from wisconsin, have connections here, and like it here. furthermore there is no doubt that UW dominates the local market, and my grades would definitely put me in position to get a job at one of the big firms here (a path that i wouldn't be disappointed in at all).

that said, i would really love to do a prestigious clerkship or academia (as unlikely as those things might be no matter where you go to school). UW doesn't do grade on for law review (though there's some bullshit preferential treatment that comes with being top 10 people in the class which i would need to move up to get) which only complicates things further.

finally, scholarship dollars here are even more rare than at most schools. i consider myself immensely lucky to be on a roughly 25% scholarship already. i am not sure that i could get more, however if it helps with advising me, my financial situation is such that, given this scholarship and in-state tuition, i will likely graduate from here debt free.

does anybody think transferring is the correct choice under these circumstances? my closest friends seem to think i would be crazy to transfer, and i'm inclined to agree with them, however the job market is bad, and i know i don't have to tell you that. thoughts?

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VinceIrons
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby VinceIrons » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:39 am

Thanks a million, Arrow, I really appreciate the input.

One other thing I forgot to mention (and it's basically the entire reason I went to the administration so early in the semester). My school's Moot Court competition in rapidly approaching, and I have some interest in trying out. However, I'm not sure if the extra work load is worth it, especially since 90% of why I'd do it would be to put it on a resume. If I do poorly, I'd feel like I wasted my time. If I do really well, good for me, but they'd need to find a replacement if/when I do end up transferring. And would doing well in the competition even look good on a transfer resume, considering I wouldn't actually participate the next semester? So I guess it comes down to whether trying out and participating in the competition is better for my chances transferring than spending that time making sure I keep my grades up.

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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby Omerta » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:05 am

tww909 wrote:i'm interested in getting some opinions as well. here are the facts:

i have a 3.75 (top 5%) after 1st semester at a wisconsin. i am from wisconsin, have connections here, and like it here. furthermore there is no doubt that UW dominates the local market, and my grades would definitely put me in position to get a job at one of the big firms here (a path that i wouldn't be disappointed in at all).

that said, i would really love to do a prestigious clerkship or academia (as unlikely as those things might be no matter where you go to school). UW doesn't do grade on for law review (though there's some bullshit preferential treatment that comes with being top 10 people in the class which i would need to move up to get) which only complicates things further.

finally, scholarship dollars here are even more rare than at most schools. i consider myself immensely lucky to be on a roughly 25% scholarship already. i am not sure that i could get more, however if it helps with advising me, my financial situation is such that, given this scholarship and in-state tuition, i will likely graduate from here debt free.

does anybody think transferring is the correct choice under these circumstances? my closest friends seem to think i would be crazy to transfer, and i'm inclined to agree with them, however the job market is bad, and i know i don't have to tell you that. thoughts?
First, congrats on the grades and the scholarship. State school scholarships are nigh impossible to get. If I were you, I would stay unless you really want to do academia. You could potentially land a D.C. clerkship and everyone likes the local kid. And just think about graduating debt free; that's a 300k or more swing in your net worth over time if you invest the money. As much as people freak out about money on this board, I think that fact gets left out a lot. C/G (you can't get H if you're not top 10%) may pay more on the front end, but the long term cost of paying that extra 110k could make it a (to borrow a poker term) negative EV decision.


I have a fairly similar situation except I go to Emory, 3.92 (#1-4, no rankings yet), 1/2 scholarship, very well networked in the SE, and I have no interest in academia. I want to stay in the South after graduation and I have less than zero interest in the Northeast. edit: I posted earlier in this thread, but I'd really like to figure out a good way to increase my scholarship and graduate debt free from here over losing LR/potentially #1/massively increasing my loans.

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Arrow
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby Arrow » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:25 am

VinceIrons wrote:Thanks a million, Arrow, I really appreciate the input.

One other thing I forgot to mention (and it's basically the entire reason I went to the administration so early in the semester). My school's Moot Court competition in rapidly approaching, and I have some interest in trying out. However, I'm not sure if the extra work load is worth it, especially since 90% of why I'd do it would be to put it on a resume. If I do poorly, I'd feel like I wasted my time. If I do really well, good for me, but they'd need to find a replacement if/when I do end up transferring. And would doing well in the competition even look good on a transfer resume, considering I wouldn't actually participate the next semester? So I guess it comes down to whether trying out and participating in the competition is better for my chances transferring than spending that time making sure I keep my grades up.


If I were faced with this decision, I would have skipped the competition (which I did) and would have chosen to focus solely on grades. I knew that while moot court is great for practice and would look great on a resume, it did not really help me much "transferring"-wise. However, this is really your decisions. I am not sure how intense this moot court competition is (though most are), I am not sure how much time you plan on spending, and I have no idea how much you really like moot court.

You can always do it your 2L/3L year, so do not despair. If you are able to do well in your classes and do moot court, then you will be ahead of the game, and you will have a great thing to talk about during OCI. The moot court will definitely help out with landing that 2L job. You can tell them how much you like litigation and trial work and such. So, doing moot court is like taking on any other useful activity (part-time job, clinic, etc.). If you can do that activity plus keep your grades up, then do it. If you are more risk adverse (like me), then perhaps you should focus on grades. In retrospect, I wish I did more, but at the time, I was very hesitant to take on too many extracurriculars.

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shepdawg
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby shepdawg » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:45 am

I need some help deciding whether I should transfer. I got top 5% at T4 After first semester, and want to transfer to USD. I don't know if they give scholarships to transfers, but I'm certain I'd be able to negotiate a full scholarship if I stayed where I'm at. What is your opinion?

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby Lawl Shcool » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:18 pm

shepdawg wrote:I need some help deciding whether I should transfer. I got top 5% at T4 After first semester, and want to transfer to USD. I don't know if they give scholarships to transfers, but I'm certain I'd be able to negotiate a full scholarship if I stayed where I'm at. What is your opinion?


If your at TJSL it won't be a full ride unless your the very top person. Also you can go much much higher. No transfer schollys either.

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quiver
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby quiver » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:16 pm

people seemed to be getting some solid responses/advice on this thread so I thought I'd throw my situation in for consideration

I currently attend a school in the 70s and I'm obviously looking to transfer. No regional preference and no noteworthy softs. Definitely clerkship aspirations but not necessarily academia, maybe government litigation position after clerking but I ultimately want a federal judgeship down the road. I received a 4.0 first semester (only 3 grades though since we don't get LRW grades until after the full year) which surprisingly puts me in only the top 7% (I guess because we only had 3 grades and theoretically professors give out A+ grades? not sure how prevalent that is though). I'm on about 3/4 scholarship here but not too happy so I'd really prefer to transfer if I can justify it fiscally/career-wise.

Before we got our rankings I figured I had a solid shot at GULC EA but after seeing that it only puts me in the top 7% how much of a realistic shot do I have now?

Given my desire for a high level clerkship and my ultimate career goals I'd ideally like one of CCN assuming HYS (more specifically H based on everything I've read; arrow's article, posts, etc.) is out. Specifically I'd prefer Columbia and NYU to Chicago but idk how second semester will pan out obviously. Worth it for Chicago ED?

If my grades dip this semester (not a prospect I want to consider, but a realistic one nonetheless) how far down is it worth it to transfer given my goals and current scholarship? T14 or bust?

any other comments/advice welcome

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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby Headybrah » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:49 pm

So I am somewhere in top 9-13%

go to UF because it made financial sense when I made my decision. Realizing how many doors are shut in terms of geographic flexibility. Know I want to end up in New England.

would top 15% place me at BU or BC

My other thoughts are if I keep in the top 10% shoot for T-14 (and possibly UCLA and USC because I wouldn't mind CA)...

Figure Harvard is not happening unless Im top 5%

any thoughts?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:19 pm

Headybrah wrote:So I am somewhere in top 9-13%

go to UF because it made financial sense when I made my decision. Realizing how many doors are shut in terms of geographic flexibility. Know I want to end up in New England.

would top 15% place me at BU or BC

My other thoughts are if I keep in the top 10% shoot for T-14 (and possibly UCLA and USC because I wouldn't mind CA)...

Figure Harvard is not happening unless Im top 5%

any thoughts?

First of all, from UF, you're likely out at Harvard unless you're in the top 1% of your class. To have a strong chance at getting in you'd need to be one of the top 2-3 students; I'm not talking 2-3%, I mean ranked #2 or 3 in the class. People who get into Harvard from that school range tend to be from the very, very top of their class.

If you know you want to end up in New England, why would you consider schools in CA? it sounds like you may not be as sure as you sound about where you want to end up. Do you have any existing ties to New England? Are you from the area? Any ties to CA?

Everything I've heard suggests that the CA markets are still tough and it'd be unwise to transfer there without existing connections and a really solid reason to be there. Maybe if you had a shot at Stanford or Berkeley it'd be different, but you don't.

If you're absolutely sure you want to be in NE, you should definitely apply to transfer to BC and BU, and with a reason for wanting to be in the area, I suspect you'd get in to at least one. However, I'm not sure how much it'll help you find work in the area.

concurrent fork
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby concurrent fork » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:33 pm

Headybrah wrote:Know I want to end up in New England.

Boston is a very insular legal market. Are you from the area? Where was your undergrad? I ask because, if you have no other ties to NE, it could be really tough to find a job as a BC/BU transfer and you might be better off staying put.

Headybrah
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby Headybrah » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:53 pm

Boston is a very insular legal market. Are you from the area? Where was your undergrad? I ask because, if you have no other ties to NE, it could be really tough to find a job as a BC/BU transfer and you might be better off staying put.


went to a small liberal arts school in Western MA. Also Gf lives there.

Is NYC the only non-insular market? I really don't want to live there...

concurrent fork
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby concurrent fork » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:12 pm

That's probably enough for most employers. Just be ready for a lot of "why Boston/NE" questions since you'll have UF on your resume.

Headybrah
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby Headybrah » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:19 pm

That's probably enough for most employers. Just be ready for a lot of "why Boston/NE" questions since you'll have UF on your resume.


The correct answer, which I will have to lie to say, is "the sox"
or maybe now "rondo"

j7108
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Re: Should We Transfer? (Non-T14 1Ls Who Owned Exams)

Postby j7108 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:02 pm

I noticed Arrow was chatting in this thread, so I had to ask my question in here since he is the transfer guru.

I deleted my question from it's own thread, and added it to this one. However, I don't know how to delete the other thread. If anyone knows, or if a moderator would like to delete it, go for it. The thread is TTT Part-Time Transfer.

School: Tier 3 school in Midwest
GPA: 3.67 (I realize a 3.67 seems low, but the curve is 2.68/2.78)
Rank: #1 (Part-Time - :roll: I know) & Top 3% (Combined “Estimated – School Doesn’t Combine”)

I’m looking to transfer to GULC EA part-time. What do you guys think my chances are?

I also contacted all the T14 schools to see which ones accept part-time transfers. This is what I found.

Part-Time Friendly: GULC, Cornell, Duke, Virginia, Michigan, Columbia, Stanford, Harvard, Yale

Assuming I get the same GPA or increase it and keep my ranking this semester. What do you guys think my chances are at these schools?




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