IOWA 2013

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2013)
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Undergradut
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby Undergradut » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:59 pm

Has anybody checked out the employment statistics for c/o 2009? I think these were posted recently by CSO.

http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/cso_stats_2009.pdf

I have little clue how representative these statistics are. But the statistics aren't comforting. Look at how much OCI 09-10 sucked compared to previous years. And half the sample making below 65,000 after graduation. Good luck paying back those hefty loans.

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Yacht_Party
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby Yacht_Party » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:39 pm

Undergradut wrote: Good luck paying back those hefty loans.


Hey thanks man.

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MoS
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby MoS » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:41 pm

Undergradut wrote:Has anybody checked out the employment statistics for c/o 2009? I think these were posted recently by CSO.

http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/cso_stats_2009.pdf

I have little clue how representative these statistics are. But the statistics aren't comforting. Look at how much OCI 09-10 sucked compared to previous years. And half the sample making below 65,000 after graduation. Good luck paying back those hefty loans.


We were given the stats at the ASD, but I don't know if it had the OCI data. Personally I am a bit tired of the hysteria over the legal market. The economy is not in good shape, unemployment is high, it hard for anyone to find a job why should anyone think the legal field is immune to the same problems. Personally I think its pretty good to have 97% employed, yeah only about 75% were actually attorney positions but about 87% were using their JD, and the median salaries are the same as they were three years ago, if not a little better. Maybe some people are making a sport out being worried, maybe some are just trying to scare others. Personally I would rather people accept reality stop feigning shock and move on.

theghostofDrewTate
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby theghostofDrewTate » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:18 pm

MoS wrote:
Undergradut wrote:Has anybody checked out the employment statistics for c/o 2009? I think these were posted recently by CSO.

http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/cso_stats_2009.pdf

I have little clue how representative these statistics are. But the statistics aren't comforting. Look at how much OCI 09-10 sucked compared to previous years. And half the sample making below 65,000 after graduation. Good luck paying back those hefty loans.


We were given the stats at the ASD, but I don't know if it had the OCI data. Personally I am a bit tired of the hysteria over the legal market. The economy is not in good shape, unemployment is high, it hard for anyone to find a job why should anyone think the legal field is immune to the same problems. Personally I think its pretty good to have 97% employed, yeah only about 75% were actually attorney positions but about 87% were using their JD, and the median salaries are the same as they were three years ago, if not a little better. Maybe some people are making a sport out being worried, maybe some are just trying to scare others. Personally I would rather people accept reality stop feigning shock and move on.


I know all of you have already made your decisions to attend LS, but ask the 3Ls about those numbers when you get on campus. I graduated into a strong bull market and I would be shocked if the currently reported numbers would have even been accurate when I graduated. I was never sent a form, nor were any of my buddies who I keep in touch with. Allegedly, the forms are anonymous, so they could never audit the information even if they wanted to. Keep that in mind. I've been to the Chicago alumni events, there are a handful of recent grads at those events in biglaw, the rest are either at toilet firms making sub $40k or out of the law altogether. I ran into one girl who was doing loan documentation at a motorcycle dealership. The market isn't "not in good shape," it's freaking dismal. If you strike out at OCI, you should seriously reconsider whether you want to be a lawyer and incur all that debt (Iowa was a steal a few years ago, but at north of $27k in-state, I have my reservations about its value today). I have plenty of friends a few years out still pulling sub $40k. These guys aren't mouthbreathers or socially awkward or anything, it's just that the market is completely flooded. Keep that in mind before you borrow too much cash. And be nice to your classmates, you never know who will help you land a job or get business someday.

lawschooliseasy
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby lawschooliseasy » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:22 pm

theghostofDrewTate wrote:
MoS wrote:
Undergradut wrote:Has anybody checked out the employment statistics for c/o 2009? I think these were posted recently by CSO.

http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/cso_stats_2009.pdf

I have little clue how representative these statistics are. But the statistics aren't comforting. Look at how much OCI 09-10 sucked compared to previous years. And half the sample making below 65,000 after graduation. Good luck paying back those hefty loans.


We were given the stats at the ASD, but I don't know if it had the OCI data. Personally I am a bit tired of the hysteria over the legal market. The economy is not in good shape, unemployment is high, it hard for anyone to find a job why should anyone think the legal field is immune to the same problems. Personally I think its pretty good to have 97% employed, yeah only about 75% were actually attorney positions but about 87% were using their JD, and the median salaries are the same as they were three years ago, if not a little better. Maybe some people are making a sport out being worried, maybe some are just trying to scare others. Personally I would rather people accept reality stop feigning shock and move on.


I know all of you have already made your decisions to attend LS, but ask the 3Ls about those numbers when you get on campus. I graduated into a strong bull market and I would be shocked if the currently reported numbers would have even been accurate when I graduated. I was never sent a form, nor were any of my buddies who I keep in touch with. Allegedly, the forms are anonymous, so they could never audit the information even if they wanted to. Keep that in mind. I've been to the Chicago alumni events, there are a handful of recent grads at those events in biglaw, the rest are either at toilet firms making sub $40k or out of the law altogether. I ran into one girl who was doing loan documentation at a motorcycle dealership. The market isn't "not in good shape," it's freaking dismal. If you strike out at OCI, you should seriously reconsider whether you want to be a lawyer and incur all that debt (Iowa was a steal a few years ago, but at north of $27k in-state, I have my reservations about its value today). I have plenty of friends a few years out still pulling sub $40k. These guys aren't mouthbreathers or socially awkward or anything, it's just that the market is completely flooded. Keep that in mind before you borrow too much cash. And be nice to your classmates, you never know who will help you land a job or get business someday.


Iowa is $24,154 instate. FTFY.

theghostofDrewTate
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby theghostofDrewTate » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:34 pm

lawschooliseasy wrote:Iowa is $24,154 instate. FTFY.


My bad. I'd bet a Franklin that it is over $27k by the time the incoming class graduates, though. It wasn't that long ago when it was sub $10k in-state. $40k plus out of state is purely ridiculous.

lawschooliseasy
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby lawschooliseasy » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:37 pm

theghostofDrewTate wrote:
lawschooliseasy wrote:Iowa is $24,154 instate. FTFY.


My bad. I'd bet a Franklin that it is over $27k by the time the incoming class graduates, though. It wasn't that long ago when it was sub $10k in-state. $40k plus out of state is purely ridiculous.


Dear Incoming Iowa Students:

Be terrified of tuition increases. Instate tuition over the past three years:

2008-2009 17,916
2009-2010 21,432
2010-2011 24,154

This is an average annual tuition increase of over 15%. At this rate, instate will be nearly $32,000 by the incoming class' 3L year. OOS tuition is increasing at a comparable rate. No longer the bargain it used to be.

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Undergradut
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby Undergradut » Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:21 pm

theghostofDrewTate wrote:
MoS wrote:
Undergradut wrote:Has anybody checked out the employment statistics for c/o 2009? I think these were posted recently by CSO.

http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/cso_stats_2009.pdf

I have little clue how representative these statistics are. But the statistics aren't comforting. Look at how much OCI 09-10 sucked compared to previous years. And half the sample making below 65,000 after graduation. Good luck paying back those hefty loans.


We were given the stats at the ASD, but I don't know if it had the OCI data. Personally I am a bit tired of the hysteria over the legal market. The economy is not in good shape, unemployment is high, it hard for anyone to find a job why should anyone think the legal field is immune to the same problems. Personally I think its pretty good to have 97% employed, yeah only about 75% were actually attorney positions but about 87% were using their JD, and the median salaries are the same as they were three years ago, if not a little better. Maybe some people are making a sport out being worried, maybe some are just trying to scare others. Personally I would rather people accept reality stop feigning shock and move on.


I know all of you have already made your decisions to attend LS, but ask the 3Ls about those numbers when you get on campus. I graduated into a strong bull market and I would be shocked if the currently reported numbers would have even been accurate when I graduated. I was never sent a form, nor were any of my buddies who I keep in touch with. Allegedly, the forms are anonymous, so they could never audit the information even if they wanted to. Keep that in mind. I've been to the Chicago alumni events, there are a handful of recent grads at those events in biglaw, the rest are either at toilet firms making sub $40k or out of the law altogether. I ran into one girl who was doing loan documentation at a motorcycle dealership. The market isn't "not in good shape," it's freaking dismal. If you strike out at OCI, you should seriously reconsider whether you want to be a lawyer and incur all that debt (Iowa was a steal a few years ago, but at north of $27k in-state, I have my reservations about its value today). I have plenty of friends a few years out still pulling sub $40k. These guys aren't mouthbreathers or socially awkward or anything, it's just that the market is completely flooded. Keep that in mind before you borrow too much cash. And be nice to your classmates, you never know who will help you land a job or get business someday.



ghostOfDrewTate -- during good years, I know that over a third of the Iowa class would get offers from OC I. What would you guess was the percentage who got offers from OCI last year? Less than ten percent? After all, I remember hearing a CSO person from Iowa saying somewhere it was the worst hiring season she had ever seen, and she had been there decades. Am I naive to think that things will pick up by Fall of 2011?

ss87ss
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby ss87ss » Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:42 pm

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but can someone explain the Iowa City westside/eastside/etc? Trying to look at apartments and I have no clue. Thanks all! Looking forward to meeting you all soon. Would also welcome suggestions/opinions...

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Yacht_Party
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby Yacht_Party » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:23 pm

ss87ss wrote:Sorry if this has been discussed already, but can someone explain the Iowa City westside/eastside/etc? Trying to look at apartments and I have no clue. Thanks all! Looking forward to meeting you all soon. Would also welcome suggestions/opinions...


I think that refers to the river. Grad schools are on the westside. Undergrad is mostly eastside.

There are solid apartments for grad students around Benton St. (westside), although availability may be limited. Coralville is another option.

hawkeye22
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby hawkeye22 » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:44 pm

Yacht_Party wrote:
ss87ss wrote:Sorry if this has been discussed already, but can someone explain the Iowa City westside/eastside/etc? Trying to look at apartments and I have no clue. Thanks all! Looking forward to meeting you all soon. Would also welcome suggestions/opinions...


I think that refers to the river. Grad schools are on the westside. Undergrad is mostly eastside.

There are solid apartments for grad students around Benton St. (westside), although availability may be limited. Coralville is another option.


Correct. Eastside is populated primarily by binge drinking undergrads. There are, however, some cool/quiet places on the Northeast side (Brown, Ronalds, etc.), but they are not close to the law school. If you own a bike, you can easily make it from East to Westside in about ten minutes.

Westside is virtually always calm; it is home to the colleges of law, medicine and dentistry.

I wouldn't advise living in Coralville, as rent isn't too much cheaper than it is in IC and you have to rely on the bus system or drive to class.

I did undergrad at Iowa, so if you have any other questions just ask.

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MoS
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby MoS » Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:25 pm

theghostofDrewTate wrote:
MoS wrote:
Undergradut wrote:Has anybody checked out the employment statistics for c/o 2009? I think these were posted recently by CSO.

http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/cso_stats_2009.pdf

I have little clue how representative these statistics are. But the statistics aren't comforting. Look at how much OCI 09-10 sucked compared to previous years. And half the sample making below 65,000 after graduation. Good luck paying back those hefty loans.


We were given the stats at the ASD, but I don't know if it had the OCI data. Personally I am a bit tired of the hysteria over the legal market. The economy is not in good shape, unemployment is high, it hard for anyone to find a job why should anyone think the legal field is immune to the same problems. Personally I think its pretty good to have 97% employed, yeah only about 75% were actually attorney positions but about 87% were using their JD, and the median salaries are the same as they were three years ago, if not a little better. Maybe some people are making a sport out being worried, maybe some are just trying to scare others. Personally I would rather people accept reality stop feigning shock and move on.


I know all of you have already made your decisions to attend LS, but ask the 3Ls about those numbers when you get on campus. I graduated into a strong bull market and I would be shocked if the currently reported numbers would have even been accurate when I graduated. I was never sent a form, nor were any of my buddies who I keep in touch with. Allegedly, the forms are anonymous, so they could never audit the information even if they wanted to. Keep that in mind. I've been to the Chicago alumni events, there are a handful of recent grads at those events in biglaw, the rest are either at toilet firms making sub $40k or out of the law altogether. I ran into one girl who was doing loan documentation at a motorcycle dealership. The market isn't "not in good shape," it's freaking dismal. If you strike out at OCI, you should seriously reconsider whether you want to be a lawyer and incur all that debt (Iowa was a steal a few years ago, but at north of $27k in-state, I have my reservations about its value today). I have plenty of friends a few years out still pulling sub $40k. These guys aren't mouthbreathers or socially awkward or anything, it's just that the market is completely flooded. Keep that in mind before you borrow too much cash. And be nice to your classmates, you never know who will help you land a job or get business someday.


I really do appreciate your input about Iowa and the law school and even hiring. I just don't see what the point is in dwelling on the bad. The economy is bad, I wouldn't say its fucking dismal, I will wait until UE hits 15%. Its bad. Its been that way for almost two years. Its not getting any better right now. But this isn't news, and it isn't what we should dwell on as students who have already made up our mind to go to LS. We should be aware but we should be mostly focused on doing well and studying. If your friends are so miserable working sub $40k legal jobs, they should find another career. If they aren't, then there must be some rewarding factor in their job. I am going to law school to be a lawyer not to be rich and drive a Mercedes. Those could be nice perks, but that is not what drives me. And no, I won't be taking out $150k to do it, but in the long run doing something you enjoy and is rewarding means far more to me than debt. And all the talk about there not being any jobs is a lie, the talk about there not being any good(high paying) jobs is partially true, and none of it is the least bit helpful.

Like I said, I really do appreciate your input on this forum, I just wish people wouldn't fan the flames of pessimism, because without a plan for dealing with it, its nothing more than complaining that does no good.

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Yacht_Party
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby Yacht_Party » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:43 pm

deleted

theghostofDrewTate
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby theghostofDrewTate » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:58 am

Undergradut wrote:ghostOfDrewTate -- during good years, I know that over a third of the Iowa class would get offers from OC I. What would you guess was the percentage who got offers from OCI last year? Less than ten percent? After all, I remember hearing a CSO person from Iowa saying somewhere it was the worst hiring season she had ever seen, and she had been there decades. Am I naive to think that things will pick up by Fall of 2011?


If I had to guess, I'd guess OCI was around 10% last year, but that is only a guess. Ask the 3Ls when you get to campus. As for Fall 2011, I am seeing a huge pickup in M&A and I have gotten a ton of calls from headhunters and am leaving my firm at the end of this week. But I am a midlevel who was trained very well in the last bull market and I hoarded the crap out of work during the downturn to make hours. The upswing in M&A will help, but in the past few years, there has been a seismic change in the biglaw litigation model, with a move to offshoring or sending all doc review to contract/staff attorneys. We had an all associates meeting 2 years ago where we told the lit department in our firm would never get back to the hiring frenzy it had in the past because we were moving to a two tier staffing model at the entry level, with way more new hires being brought in on a staff attorney/non-partner track than on the traditional partner track. That is going to flow through almost every big firm out there and increase competition for formerly less desirable jobs.

theghostofDrewTate
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby theghostofDrewTate » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:13 am

MoS wrote:I really do appreciate your input about Iowa and the law school and even hiring. I just don't see what the point is in dwelling on the bad. The economy is bad, I wouldn't say its fucking dismal, I will wait until UE hits 15%. Its bad. Its been that way for almost two years. Its not getting any better right now. But this isn't news, and it isn't what we should dwell on as students who have already made up our mind to go to LS. We should be aware but we should be mostly focused on doing well and studying. If your friends are so miserable working sub $40k legal jobs, they should find another career. If they aren't, then there must be some rewarding factor in their job. I am going to law school to be a lawyer not to be rich and drive a Mercedes. Those could be nice perks, but that is not what drives me. And no, I won't be taking out $150k to do it, but in the long run doing something you enjoy and is rewarding means far more to me than debt. And all the talk about there not being any jobs is a lie, the talk about there not being any good(high paying) jobs is partially true, and none of it is the least bit helpful.

Like I said, I really do appreciate your input on this forum, I just wish people wouldn't fan the flames of pessimism, because without a plan for dealing with it, its nothing more than complaining that does no good.


I offered constructive advice - if you don't land a job at OCI, you should consider doing something else with your life. The talk about no jobs isn't a lie, ask the 3Ls when you get on campus. I understand if you want to go to law school to be a lawyer, but what kind of lawyer do want to be? Do you want to be a misdemeanor public defender in some place like Mahaska County? Do you want to be a guy who drives around the state attending small claims court hearings on behalf of Citibank and Bank of America trying to collect $4,000 from some deadbeat? Do you want to be a guy in charge of overseeing doc review on a 20 year pending insurance case related to asbestos? Do you want to defend State Farm in fender benders? In each of the foregoing cases, do you want to do that with $100k in debt and for a salary ranging between $35k and $50k a few years out? I ask, because I have friends doing just those things. I will gladly introduce them to you at a football game if you don't believe me. We tailgate right off Melrose, not too far from the LS. There were a handful of people who landed good gigs at OCI, but those who didn't generally regret their decision to go to LS.

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MoS
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby MoS » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:12 am

theghostofDrewTate wrote:
MoS wrote:I really do appreciate your input about Iowa and the law school and even hiring. I just don't see what the point is in dwelling on the bad. The economy is bad, I wouldn't say its fucking dismal, I will wait until UE hits 15%. Its bad. Its been that way for almost two years. Its not getting any better right now. But this isn't news, and it isn't what we should dwell on as students who have already made up our mind to go to LS. We should be aware but we should be mostly focused on doing well and studying. If your friends are so miserable working sub $40k legal jobs, they should find another career. If they aren't, then there must be some rewarding factor in their job. I am going to law school to be a lawyer not to be rich and drive a Mercedes. Those could be nice perks, but that is not what drives me. And no, I won't be taking out $150k to do it, but in the long run doing something you enjoy and is rewarding means far more to me than debt. And all the talk about there not being any jobs is a lie, the talk about there not being any good(high paying) jobs is partially true, and none of it is the least bit helpful.

Like I said, I really do appreciate your input on this forum, I just wish people wouldn't fan the flames of pessimism, because without a plan for dealing with it, its nothing more than complaining that does no good.


I offered constructive advice - if you don't land a job at OCI, you should consider doing something else with your life. The talk about no jobs isn't a lie, ask the 3Ls when you get on campus. I understand if you want to go to law school to be a lawyer, but what kind of lawyer do want to be? Do you want to be a misdemeanor public defender in some place like Mahaska County? Do you want to be a guy who drives around the state attending small claims court hearings on behalf of Citibank and Bank of America trying to collect $4,000 from some deadbeat? Do you want to be a guy in charge of overseeing doc review on a 20 year pending insurance case related to asbestos? Do you want to defend State Farm in fender benders? In each of the foregoing cases, do you want to do that with $100k in debt and for a salary ranging between $35k and $50k a few years out? I ask, because I have friends doing just those things. I will gladly introduce them to you at a football game if you don't believe me. We tailgate right off Melrose, not too far from the LS. There were a handful of people who landed good gigs at OCI, but those who didn't generally regret their decision to go to LS.

If there are no jobs how did 75% of c/o 2009 grads have bar required jobs? And honestly I don't see why you are so down trodden on your friend jobs. Are they glamorous? No, but they are jobs, when 10% of Americans are actively looking for jobs and can't find one, that is something. But thanks for the OCI info. I think that's fair advice. I mean most jobs don't come from OCI, it's not hard to find that out, but info about what those jobs are is not readily available. Most people don't think about those jobs when they want to become lawyers, but they should.

What year did you graduate, and what time did your friend graduate? Where were they in the class?

nyskidude
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby nyskidude » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:57 am

I moved in on the 1st of July, so if anyone wants help moving in (I know how tough it can be...), feel free to send me a DM. If I'm available, I would be more than happy to help people out.

Slimpee
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby Slimpee » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:50 pm

nyskidude wrote:I moved in on the 1st of July, so if anyone wants help moving in (I know how tough it can be...), feel free to send me a DM. If I'm available, I would be more than happy to help people out.


Pics?

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OkieGirl
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby OkieGirl » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:09 pm

Just received an offer for the Law Opportunity Fellowship (July 7, 2010)! It's covering the difference between out of state and in-state tuition for all three years! I was planning to attend regardless but this is a great surprise!

* I will be accepting the offer!

Slimpee
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby Slimpee » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:17 pm

OkieGirl wrote:Just received an offer for the Law Opportunity Fellowship (July 7, 2010)! It's covering the difference between out of state and in-state tuition for all three years! I was planning to attend regardless but this is a great surprise!

* I will be accepting the offer!


Congrats!

Would you mind sharing your numbers? PM is fine...

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MoS
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby MoS » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:21 pm

Iowa seems to be really generous to the people who it takes off the waitlist. I think thats a good thing. It will help Iowa's ranking.

Slimpee
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby Slimpee » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:32 pm

MoS wrote:Iowa seems to be really generous to the people who it takes off the waitlist. I think thats a good thing. It will help Iowa's ranking.


I want them to be generous with ME! I help their ranking! :D

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OkieGirl
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby OkieGirl » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:53 pm

MoS- I wasn't taken off the waitlist, I just filed my financial aid late. I was accepted back in March.

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jaskat
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby jaskat » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:35 pm

So you're saying I should have filled in my FinAid late? *sigh*

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traehekat
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Re: IOWA 2013

Postby traehekat » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:44 pm

OkieGirl wrote:Just received an offer for the Law Opportunity Fellowship (July 7, 2010)! It's covering the difference between out of state and in-state tuition for all three years! I was planning to attend regardless but this is a great surprise!

* I will be accepting the offer!


Congrats!




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