Top Law Schools

webbylu87 wrote:Officially withdrew from Iowa today. Am kind of sad about it actually. Alas, I shall be at Illinois in the fall. Good luck, everyone!

Aww, sad to hear this, but I think Illinois will best serve your needs. Let me know when you're in Iowa City again, I'll buy you drinks and you can be an honorary Hawkeye.

Holy shit JOThompson did you really apply to ALL of those schools?! I thought I applied to a lot, but that's nothing compared to your list. Damn man.

Andrew the Wolverine wrote:Holy shit JOThompson did you really apply to ALL of those schools?! I thought I applied to a lot, but that's nothing compared to your list. Damn man.

My thoughts exactly. And not a bad set of acceptances/schollies, either.

From the looks of it, Iowa 2013 will be a solid class (not that TLS is representative).

Yep, I had plenty of free time (unemployed then) and was armed with an LSAC fee waiver. My goal was to apply as broadly as possible since 2010 was predicted to be a tougher than normal cycle. I'm so glad I applied to Iowa. It's one of those schools that I could've easily neglected if I only had the funds to target a couple schools.

Can't wait to start classes with you all. I read a lot of threads on TLS and I feel that some of the coolest posters are right here in IOWA 2013.

I am so tempted to just say f*** it for my 5 waitlists and just commit to Iowa. Someone talk me off the ledge. I want this cycle to be OVER.

Andrew the Wolverine wrote:I am so tempted to just say f*** it for my 5 waitlists and just commit to Iowa. Someone talk me off the ledge. I want this cycle to be OVER.

All you have to do is reread this thread to see how awesome the people who are your potential classmates are. That and you'll most likely incur less debt in Iowa, ( a top rated school all things considered).

JOThompson wrote:Yep, I had plenty of free time (unemployed then) and was armed with an LSAC fee waiver. My goal was to apply as broadly as possible since 2010 was predicted to be a tougher than normal cycle. I'm so glad I applied to Iowa. It's one of those schools that I could've easily neglected if I only had the funds to target a couple schools.

Can't wait to start classes with you all. I read a lot of threads on TLS and I feel that some of the coolest posters are right here in IOWA 2013.

+1

I only applied to Iowa because of the email they sent me and because I had that nifty LSAC fee waiver. Had either one of those two things not been in place, I really wouldn't have applied. They certainly weren't on my original list of places to apply/consider. Of course, after I researched the school, I knew it'd be a great school for me. Totally psyched to be a Hawkeye!

jaskat wrote:

Andrew the Wolverine wrote:I am so tempted to just say f*** it for my 5 waitlists and just commit to Iowa. Someone talk me off the ledge. I want this cycle to be OVER.

All you have to do is reread this thread to see how awesome the people who are your potential classmates are. That and you'll most likely incur less debt in Iowa, ( a top rated school all things considered).

Whoa, hold on there. I'm an Iowa grad and I love the school, IC, the Hawks, etc., but two things - one, out of state tuition is now officially ridiculous and there are no guarantees of getting in-state second/third year or keeping merit scholarships, which could boost debt to unexpected levels and two, Iowa's a decent school, but I wouldn't call it top rated. I go to the law alumni events, there's a handful of people in biglaw in Chicago. I have plenty of friends who are a few years out pulling sub $45k and some not even practicing law. The schools I would call top rated are putting at least half the class into biglaw and have clerkship and other opportunities that simply aren't available to Iowa grads in the prestige based world of "the law." GET GOOD GRADES KIDS.

theghostofDrewTate wrote:

jaskat wrote:

Andrew the Wolverine wrote:I am so tempted to just say f*** it for my 5 waitlists and just commit to Iowa. Someone talk me off the ledge. I want this cycle to be OVER.

All you have to do is reread this thread to see how awesome the people who are your potential classmates are. That and you'll most likely incur less debt in Iowa, ( a top rated school all things considered).

Whoa, hold on there. I'm an Iowa grad and I love the school, IC, the Hawks, etc., but two things - one, out of state tuition is now officially ridiculous and there are no guarantees of getting in-state second/third year or keeping merit scholarships, which could boost debt to unexpected levels and two, Iowa's a decent school, but I wouldn't call it top rated. I go to the law alumni events, there's a handful of people in biglaw in Chicago. I have plenty of friends who are a few years out pulling sub $45k and some not even practicing law. The schools I would call top rated are putting at least half the class into biglaw and have clerkship and other opportunities that simply aren't available to Iowa grads in the prestige based world of "the law." GET GOOD GRADES KIDS.

I understand your point, I wouldn't say Iowa is a ticket to riches, but if you work hard you will get a law job and one that pays decently, median is 100k now. Which is pretty good.
Plus your definition of "top rated" is excessively restrictive, it leaves out Stanford, Michigan, Berkley, Georgetown, and YALE. I am just saying that its not all about the money.
I think a good definition would be schools that allow students to do what they want, where that is work for a government agency, a big law firm, get a clerkship, or return to their home town and open up a solo practice. Those stats are hard to come by, if they even exist. But that is really how you should be measuring a school. And I think Iowa, while not the best, allows many, if not most, students to do what they want with their law degree.

theghostofDrewTate wrote:one, out of state tuition is now officially ridiculous and there are no guarantees of getting in-state second/third year

From what I have been told by like, literally everyone at Iowa, anyone who wants resident tuition can receive it if they take a RA position, which are almost guaranteed (I think there is priority for nonresident students).

My entire decision to attend Iowa hinges on this, lol.

MoS wrote:I understand your point, I wouldn't say Iowa is a ticket to riches, but if you work hard you will get a law job and one that pays decently, median is 100k now. Which is pretty good.
Plus your definition of "top rated" is excessively restrictive, it leaves out Stanford, Michigan, Berkley, Georgetown, and YALE. I am just saying that its not all about the money.
I think a good definition would be schools that allow students to do what they want, where that is work for a government agency, a big law firm, get a clerkship, or return to their home town and open up a solo practice. Those stats are hard to come by, if they even exist. But that is really how you should be measuring a school. And I think Iowa, while not the best, allows many, if not most, students to do what they want with their law degree.

My guess, and this only a guess, is that the $100k "median" is not a number you should rely on as your starting salary upon graduating. My experience is based on the market a few years ago, when hiring was hot, and I would guess that maybe 15% got jobs above that median, maybe 5 people got jobs in DM or KC at median and the other 83% of the class was below median, many pretty drastically below. I think the employment surveys are self selecting (I know I never got one and none of my friends ever got one either so I don't know where the info came from) but I would guess that the response rate is substantially lower than 100% of the class. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade or anything, but I remember looking at that median and average and thinking I had a golden ticket, but during the orientation week when I started talking to 3rd year students, I quickly realized that I was going to have to bust tail to get good grades.

As for top rated, amend the "and" in my definition with "or" - Yale, U of C, Berkely, Michigan, etc. are all top schools (although I know quite a few un and underemployed Michigan peeps).

You'll see what's up when you talk to the 3rd years in a few months when you are on campus. If you really want to be a lawyer, Iowa's a great place to go to school because it is a lot cheaper than many other schools, but my two biggest pieces of advice are to get really good grades and keep your debt as low as possible. Barring a drastic rebound in the economy and transactional activity, the job market could still be pretty bad for Iowa grads in a few years, so when you break out the credit card at the bar, don't tell yourself you'll be getting $100k in a few years, assume something more like $40-50k. I got VERY lucky and landed at a big firm and haven't gotten the ax (yet), but a lot of my classmates weren't so lucky.

traehekat wrote:

theghostofDrewTate wrote:one, out of state tuition is now officially ridiculous and there are no guarantees of getting in-state second/third year

From what I have been told by like, literally everyone at Iowa, anyone who wants resident tuition can receive it if they take a RA position, which are almost guaranteed (I think there is priority for nonresident students).

My entire decision to attend Iowa hinges on this, lol.

Yeah, that was the sales pitch a few years ago, too. One of my best friends in LS was from out of state and he got shut out of RA hiring during his second year and got stuck paying out of state that year, but I think he landed something third year. I think they used to commit a certain number of RA positions with scholarship offers so there weren't as many open RA slots as the admissions people think there are, but maybe I am mistaken or they have changed that. I'd ask if they can give you a commitment.

And for the record, I don't want to sound like a surly old man, I'm just letting you know that the recruitment process at schools is a sales pitch and you have to be somewhat skeptical of the representations they make to you. Go to Iowa, but make sure you are going in eyes wide open, this is one of the biggest investment decisions you'll ever make in life so get as informed as you can.

theghostofDrewTate wrote:And for the record, I don't want to sound like a surly old man, I'm just letting you know that the recruitment process at schools is a sales pitch and you have to be somewhat skeptical of the representations they make to you. Go to Iowa, but make sure you are going in eyes wide open, this is one of the biggest investment decisions you'll ever make in life so get as informed as you can.

No, no, I totally know where you are coming from and I appreciate the advice. I've heard a lot of people who are skeptical about the RA situation, but no one with any real evidence like you, so that is great information (although somewhat worrisome).

theghostofDrewTate wrote:

mshflyer wrote:new bedroom set anyone? hahah

Hey slimpee - see that narrow bed? Good luck finding a Nebraska coed small enough to fit on that thing.

This needs love Nice play, sir.

Oh and in response to the whole "proceed with caution" stuff above: I think most of us on here are aware that we could be royally screwed if things don't turn around in the economy, we get bad grades, both, what have you. A lot of the optimism here is pretty restrained, I'd say.

Yacht_Party wrote:A lot of the optimism here is pretty restrained, I'd say.

GO HAWKEYES!

We're so fucked...

traehekat wrote:

Yacht_Party wrote:A lot of the optimism here is pretty restrained, I'd say.

GO HAWKEYES!

We're so fucked...

Lol

Probably shouldn't be posting here since I'm not going to Iowa next year, but I just wanted to chime in that I was really blunt in asking about the RA/in-state tuition situation--I wanted numbers. I was told they would not provide any statistics but that every year there are always a few people who are unable to get a position. This was a key factor in my decision. I would have liked to think I'd fight hard and get one, but the idea of possibly paying full price for three years was really frightening.

I keep having these movements of regret, hence spying on your thread. So, I guess I hope next year you'll all post how horrible it is.

On the Iowa Law website, under the 2008 employment statistics, it says there is someone whose out-of-state salary was $750,000. I have no idea how that is possible. I mean the chief editor of Harvard Law Review couldn't possibly expect to make that salary, much less an Iowa grad. Is it possible that this person is a long-time graduate, and is reporting their salary now as 750k? Does anybody know what kind of person gets that type of money?

Andrew the Wolverine wrote:On the Iowa Law website, under the 2008 employment statistics, it says there is someone whose out-of-state salary was $750,000. I have no idea how that is possible. I mean the chief editor of Harvard Law Review couldn't possibly expect to make that salary, much less an Iowa grad. Is it possible that this person is a long-time graduate, and is reporting their salary now as 750k? Does anybody know what kind of person gets that type of money?

Yeah I saw that, and really wondered. Maybe some rich guy who wanted a JD and went back to his job after getting it. But most likely a typo from the student or some smart ass. Thats why medians are so much more important than simple averages. Otherwise something like that could just ruin the statistic.

seville.

dt22 wrote:seville.

Application was approved today. I'll be in building A - anyone else joining me there?

traehekat wrote:

dt22 wrote:seville.

Application was approved today. I'll be in building A - anyone else joining me there?

Congrats. What floor are you on?

JOThompson wrote:

traehekat wrote:

dt22 wrote:seville.

Application was approved today. I'll be in building A - anyone else joining me there?

Congrats. What floor are you on?

Second.