Serving Time in Ithaca (Cornell 2013)

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2013)
acdisagod
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby acdisagod » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:39 pm

Hey, we should get some kind of sports thing going for Cornell. Like a weekly or biweekly game of football, soccer, or golf. Pm me if your're down. The only thing is I'm pretty sure but not 100% that I'm attending at this point and I'm sure much of the potential Class of 2013 feels the same so this may be premature

fsohn
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby fsohn » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:00 am

sheltron5000 wrote:of course, fsohn is the resident cynic.

I've heard a few depressing rants from 2Ls about how awful their hiring experience has been, but mostly that seems to be about how hard it is to get BIGlaw in NYC. But most of the 3Ls seem to have dealt with it OK, or at least accepted the situation.

Our year (2012), should be in a slightly better position as the economy recovers (::fingers crossed::) and 2013 might even be back to normal (note that normal is ~2001 post-dotcom hiring, not 2006 inflated financial market hiring).

At any rate the point is biglaw might or might not be there, no matter where you go to school. I chose Cornell over Chicago partly on the money, but mostly because after coming to visit, I knew that I would be happy here. (and I am). For me at least, personal happiness is the single most important factor for a) doing the work to get good grades and b) not getting depressed about jobs.

[going back to the Ks reading I still have to do, I swear I'll get it done before class... ;) ]


Resident cynic I may be. Resident realist, too.

The problems stretch far beyond NYC. I got nothing in my hometown of Chicago either. The 3Ls got hired before the crash, and you all (I hope) will get hired after the crash. We 2Ls in the middle are f'ed. Don't let anyone put any window-dressing on it to fool you.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby woeisme » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:38 am

Jericwithers wrote:
panda wrote:sad i missed the first ASW, hope it went well!


I enjoyed it. Now if only I could jump through their hoops to see what ammount of money I will get.


Tell them about your Duke and Texas $. 8)

Jericwithers wrote:
dakatz wrote:Same, but I"m assuming that Dean's Scholars aren't the only people who get nice scholarships. Even if they offered me something less than Dean's Scholarship amount, I'd still really consider Cornell.


I hate to say it but I would need $30k a year. They are just not very strong in Texas and the tuition is $5k/yr more than everywhere else. The campus is beautiful though and would be a great law school.


I've been really impressed with our Texas placement. A number of my friends are going there this year (with varying ties to Texas). But, yeah, if you have ties to Texas, you should be set. I can direct you to some Cornell Texans, if you'd like.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby woeisme » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:46 am

Dignan wrote:
johndh wrote:Got the Dean's Scholarship as well. That makes my decision a lot harder. Congrats Dignan! Do you have any idea what you're going to do at this point? 120,000 at a t14 is hard to pass up

I'm not sure what I am going to do. Up until this point, I was thinking that my decision would come down to Columbia versus Berkeley. But, as you say, it's tough to turn down $120K from an excellent school.

If you put a gun to my head and made me choose right now, I would probably choose CLS, even at sticker. There's little question in my mind that CLS gives you advantages, in almost all possible careers in the law, over Cornell. Are those advantages worth $120K? I'm not sure, but I'm inclined to think so. Anyway, I definitely need to think about this some more.


For what? What do you want to do? I'd say that nine times out of ten the credited path would be to be able to say you were a Deans Scholarship Recipient and have no tuition payments. I'm biased, sure, but this isn't coming from a biased point of view. Seriously.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby woeisme » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:52 am

Dignan wrote:
dudester wrote:Those assumptions are anything but conservative.

Class of 2009 NLJ 250 hiring:
2. Columbia Law School (54.4)
14. Cornell (41.5)

Class of 2005 NJL 250 hiring:
2. Columbia Law School (60%)
9. Cornell Law School (53%)

Done correctly, that simple analysis should unequivocally point to Cornell as being the right choice.

But why is the NLJ250 the "correct" metric? The NLJ250 represents a broad swath of law jobs. There is a significant difference--with respect to salary, prestige, and future job opportunities--between the top of that list and the bottom. I've seen data that suggests that CLS places much better than Cornell into elite firms. The following is from four years ago. Although the absolute numbers would be lower in today's economy, I suspect that the relative differences would remain.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/


You'd be a Deans Scholar, man. Deans Scholar > Columbia Sticker. It's just more prestigious. It's harder to get. It's more impressive. Doesn't that impress you more?

woeisme
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby woeisme » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:00 am

fsohn wrote:
sheltron5000 wrote:of course, fsohn is the resident cynic.

I've heard a few depressing rants from 2Ls about how awful their hiring experience has been, but mostly that seems to be about how hard it is to get BIGlaw in NYC. But most of the 3Ls seem to have dealt with it OK, or at least accepted the situation.

Our year (2012), should be in a slightly better position as the economy recovers (::fingers crossed::) and 2013 might even be back to normal (note that normal is ~2001 post-dotcom hiring, not 2006 inflated financial market hiring).

At any rate the point is biglaw might or might not be there, no matter where you go to school. I chose Cornell over Chicago partly on the money, but mostly because after coming to visit, I knew that I would be happy here. (and I am). For me at least, personal happiness is the single most important factor for a) doing the work to get good grades and b) not getting depressed about jobs.

[going back to the Ks reading I still have to do, I swear I'll get it done before class... ;) ]


Resident cynic I may be. Resident realist, too.

The problems stretch far beyond NYC. I got nothing in my hometown of Chicago either. The 3Ls got hired before the crash, and you all (I hope) will get hired after the crash. We 2Ls in the middle are f'ed. Don't let anyone put any window-dressing on it to fool you.


Fsohn, but you should be careful to indicate that your frustrations have to do with the economy in general, not really Cornell. In other words, although our class got fucked, we weren't alone. All the classes of 2011 (at every law school) got hit. We fared better than most schools. Everything was consistent to past years.
Last edited by woeisme on Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dignan
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby Dignan » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:02 am

woeisme wrote:
Dignan wrote:
johndh wrote:Got the Dean's Scholarship as well. That makes my decision a lot harder. Congrats Dignan! Do you have any idea what you're going to do at this point? 120,000 at a t14 is hard to pass up

I'm not sure what I am going to do. Up until this point, I was thinking that my decision would come down to Columbia versus Berkeley. But, as you say, it's tough to turn down $120K from an excellent school.

If you put a gun to my head and made me choose right now, I would probably choose CLS, even at sticker. There's little question in my mind that CLS gives you advantages, in almost all possible careers in the law, over Cornell. Are those advantages worth $120K? I'm not sure, but I'm inclined to think so. Anyway, I definitely need to think about this some more.


For what? What do you want to do? I'd say that nine times out of ten the credited path would be to be able to say you were a Deans Scholarship Recipient and have no tuition payments. I'm biased, sure, but this isn't coming from a biased point of view. Seriously.

I'm not precisely sure what I want to do, and I'm not sure where I want to live after school. I'm a native Californian; there's a chance that I'll want to return here after law school. There's also a chance that I'll want to stay on the East Coast.

I have a professional background in IT, I and I'm interested in exploring IP law. I also have an interest in criminal justice issues. I'd like to take a shot at securing a federal clerkship right after school.

Based on everything I've seen, CLS places much better than Cornell on the West Coast (and in most other market outside of NYC). Also, CLS seems to have a much more active IP program. As for clerkships and criminal justice, CLS seems to have at least a slight advantage over Cornell, although I don't find the difference to be that significant. But with respect to national mobility and IP law, CLS seems to offer substantial advantages.

Do you disagree? I'd love to hear your argument, biased or not.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby woeisme » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:12 am

Dignan wrote:I'm not precisely sure what I want to do, and I'm not sure where I want to live after school. I'm a native Californian; there's a chance that I'll want to return here after law school. There's also a chance that I'll want to stay on the East Coast.

I have a professional background in IT, I and I'm interested in exploring IP law. I also have an interest in criminal justice issues. I'd like to take a shot at securing a federal clerkship right after school.

Based on everything I've seen, CLS places much better than Cornell on the West Coast (and in most other market outside of NYC). Also, CLS seems to have a much more active IP program. As for clerkships and criminal justice, CLS seems to have at least a slight advantage over Cornell, although I don't find the difference to be that significant. But with respect to national mobility and IP law, CLS seems to offer substantial advantages.

Do you disagree? I'd love to hear your argument, biased or not.


I don't know much about IP. I guess what I'm suggesting is this: it's unlikely that you'll do significantly better at Columbia than you would at Cornell. And it's improbable that you'd do significantly better at Cornell, than Columbia. Indeed, in all likelihood, you'd probably do relatively similar at either school. And the difference in rank is more than made up by the Dean Scholar designation (in my opinion). Accordingly, I'm of the belief that given the two options, Columbia really only makes sense if you believe that simply attending Columbia can put you somewhere that Cornell cannot (e.g., Wachtel). And, frankly, if that is your goal, you are likely setting yourself up to be very disappointed.

Also, I really wouldn't worry at all about being able to get work in diverse geographic locations. In a normal economy people could go anywhere geographically from Cornell (and it was even easier to do this with ties). I have not heard of a Cornell Californian not being able to find work back out west. Again, things were a bit different this year here (as everywhere else).

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Dignan
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby Dignan » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:24 am

woeisme wrote:I don't know much about IP. I guess what I'm suggesting is this: it's unlikely that you'll do significantly better at Columbia than you would at Cornell. And it's improbable that you'd do significantly better at Cornell, than Columbia. Indeed, in all likelihood, you'd probably do relatively similar at either school. And the difference in rank is more than made up by the Dean Scholar designation (in my opinion). Accordingly, I'm of the belief that given the two options, Columbia really only makes sense if you believe that simply attending Columbia can put you somewhere that Cornell cannot (e.g., Wachtel). And, frankly, if that is your goal, you are likely setting yourself up to be very disappointed.

I agree that it would be naive to pin all of one's hopes on securing a job at at Wachtel. And, just out of curiosity, what are the benefits of having the Dean's Scholarship designation? I was assuming that the benefit was purely financial.


Also, I really wouldn't worry at all about being able to get work in diverse geographic locations. In a normal economy people could go anywhere geographically from Cornell (and it was even easier to do this with ties). I have not heard of a Cornell Californian not being able to find work back out west. Again, things were a bit different this year here (as everywhere else).

Actually, I've talked to a few California natives who are 3Ls at CLS this year. Almost all of them have already landed great jobs out in California. One specifically said how he's glad that he's not at Penn or Cornell, where his California friends are really struggling. This is anecdotal, of course, but it does seems that CLS grads do better than the grads of the some of the lower ranked schools in the T14.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby woeisme » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:47 am

Dignan wrote:I agree that it would be naive to pin all of one's hopes on securing a job at at Wachtel. And, just out of curiosity, what are the benefits of having the Dean's Scholarship designation? I was assuming that the benefit was purely financial.


Well, presumably it would go on your resume as an honor. And presumably you'd send that out to employers, judges, etc. It's a phenomenal credential. To me, being one of a select few Deans Scholars is far more impressive than attending Columbia.

Dignan wrote:Actually, I've talked to a few California natives who are 3Ls at CLS this year. Almost all of them have already landed great jobs out in California. One specifically said how he's glad that he's not at Penn or Cornell, where his California friends are really struggling. This is anecdotal, of course, but it does seems that CLS grads do better than the grads of the some of the lower ranked schools in the T14.


I was referring to 2Ls, not 3Ls. Among the 3Ls (and last year 3Ls) I've never heard of anyone not being able to go back to California. I guess that doesn't mean they can't exist though. Assuming your friend isn't misinformed, I'd still argue that that's not a fair representation.

But hey, it seems a bit like you already have your mind made up on Columbia, no? Have you visited both yet?

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Dignan
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby Dignan » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:53 am

woeisme wrote:But hey, it seems a bit like you already have your mind made up on Columbia, no? Have you visited both yet?

In all honestly, I have not made up my mind on Columbia. I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here in the interest of drawing out arguments for going to Cornell. I very much have an open mind about this. (And I'm still considering other schools, like Berkeley.)

I went to Columbia's ASW last week. I only have until April 1 to accept the Dean's Scholarship offer, so it won't do me much good to attend Cornell's ASW in early April. I might be able to fly out to Ithica in a couple of weeks.

dakatz
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby dakatz » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:57 am

Do the math on what Columbia costs at sticker price costs. Then add in the super high COL of NYC. Then add in the interest that will accrue on that debt. And also keep in mind that some high-paying gig simply is not guaranteed from any school anymore. Not even Columbia. Taking that 120K now might save you years of agonizing loan payments. And if you indeed do well at Cornell, you will have very good job opportunities all the same.

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newyorker88
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby newyorker88 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:47 am

Hey guys, how much is cornell's seat deposit and when do you have to pay it by?

dakatz
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby dakatz » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:49 am

newyorker88 wrote:Hey guys, how much is cornell's seat deposit and when do you have to pay it by?


Its later than most schools, May 1

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Jericwithers
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby Jericwithers » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:01 am

dakatz wrote:
newyorker88 wrote:Hey guys, how much is cornell's seat deposit and when do you have to pay it by?


Its later than most schools, May 1


I think they told us April 16th (or 21st) at the ASD. Too lazy to verify right now though.

fsohn
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby fsohn » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:03 am

woeisme wrote:
fsohn wrote:
sheltron5000 wrote:of course, fsohn is the resident cynic.

I've heard a few depressing rants from 2Ls about how awful their hiring experience has been, but mostly that seems to be about how hard it is to get BIGlaw in NYC. But most of the 3Ls seem to have dealt with it OK, or at least accepted the situation.

Our year (2012), should be in a slightly better position as the economy recovers (::fingers crossed::) and 2013 might even be back to normal (note that normal is ~2001 post-dotcom hiring, not 2006 inflated financial market hiring).

At any rate the point is biglaw might or might not be there, no matter where you go to school. I chose Cornell over Chicago partly on the money, but mostly because after coming to visit, I knew that I would be happy here. (and I am). For me at least, personal happiness is the single most important factor for a) doing the work to get good grades and b) not getting depressed about jobs.

[going back to the Ks reading I still have to do, I swear I'll get it done before class... ;) ]


Resident cynic I may be. Resident realist, too.

The problems stretch far beyond NYC. I got nothing in my hometown of Chicago either. The 3Ls got hired before the crash, and you all (I hope) will get hired after the crash. We 2Ls in the middle are f'ed. Don't let anyone put any window-dressing on it to fool you.


Fsohn, but you should be careful to indicate that your frustrations have to do with the economy in general, not really Cornell. In other words, although our class got fucked, we weren't alone. All the classes of 2011 (at every law school) got hit. We fared better than most schools. Everything was consistent to past years.


At this point, it doesn't matter WHY I didn't get big law, or what other schools did. I didn't get it, and people should be aware of the situation and how bad it is.

That said, you're right, of course we aren't the only ones. Misery loves company, and we've got plenty of it.

CyLaw
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby CyLaw » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:03 pm

Jericwithers wrote:
dakatz wrote:
newyorker88 wrote:Hey guys, how much is cornell's seat deposit and when do you have to pay it by?


Its later than most schools, May 1


I think they told us April 16th (or 21st) at the ASD. Too lazy to verify right now though.


Website says April 16th.

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newyorker88
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby newyorker88 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:44 am

Thanks does anyone know how much it is?

CyLaw
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby CyLaw » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:35 am

newyorker88 wrote:Thanks does anyone know how much it is?


First one is $250.

Here is a link to the site in case you have more questions. http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/admissions/admitted/reserving.cfm

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grandslam
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby grandslam » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:03 am

I'm flying in for diversity ASD on April 8th and so far the only planes I can find flying into Ithaca that day are the tiny, tiny 10 row ones that seat you by weight. I'm afraid of dying and am thinking about flying into the Syracuse instead. If anyone is flying in on the same day and wants to travel from the airport together, PM me and let me know!

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Jericwithers
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby Jericwithers » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:12 am

grandslam wrote:I'm flying in for diversity ASD on April 8th and so far the only planes I can find flying into Ithaca that day are the tiny, tiny 10 row ones that seat you by weight. I'm afraid of dying and am thinking about flying into the Syracuse instead. If anyone is flying in on the same day and wants to travel from the airport together, PM me and let me know!

They aren't that bad. You are more likely to survive a crash in a small prop plane than in a jet.

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grandslam
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby grandslam » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:53 pm

Jericwithers wrote:
grandslam wrote:I'm flying in for diversity ASD on April 8th and so far the only planes I can find flying into Ithaca that day are the tiny, tiny 10 row ones that seat you by weight. I'm afraid of dying and am thinking about flying into the Syracuse instead. If anyone is flying in on the same day and wants to travel from the airport together, PM me and let me know!

They aren't that bad. You are more likely to survive a crash in a small prop plane than in a jet.


Yeah, that's probably true - I'm sure they could glide to safety a lot easier if anything were to happen. I've just never flown in one before...

Oh well, I'll probably be able to talk myself into it by next week. :P

Adrian_8am
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby Adrian_8am » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:37 pm

Accepted via email...

When is the first deposit due?

cicely101
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby cicely101 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:02 pm

Checking in! Accepted back in December, but it's looking like I'll be attending...just waiting for my aid package to know for sure. Has anyone received theirs yet?

zarathustra
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Re: Cornell 2013

Postby zarathustra » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:52 pm

In today via email. Quite excited.




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