It's not too late to rethink this whole endeavor! Forum

[Locke N. Lawded]

Do your homework before matriculating! Don't take the law school admissions offices at their word...the stats are all gamed.

Read your law school scam blogs...we are here to help you make a true informed choice.

I am on the front lines all the time...check out my blog and those of my compatriots:

MOD EDIT: spamming your blog in your first post? For shame: this is a yellow card.

[Kilpatrick]

[traehekat]

No one cares about your blog. Leave us to our ignorance.

[traehekat]

Double post.

I'll use this opportunity to reiterate no one wants to read your blog.

[A'nold]

Quick TLS'ers! Drop your 1/2 scholly to WUSTL and your flagship state school w/ in-state tuition and go learn a trade! Become a plumber or an HVAC technician! Law school is purely a financial decision and you can make hella as a garbageman! HURRYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dextermorgan]

Double post.

I'll use this opportunity to reiterate no one wants to read your blog.

+1

[Mr. Matlock]

Do your homework before matriculating! Don't take the law school admissions offices at their word...the stats are all gamed.

Read your law school scam blogs...we are here to help you make a true informed choice.

I am on the front lines all the time...check out my blog and those of my compatriots:

Coming from a sales background myself, I'm compelled to ask how the bar prep sales gig is going? Is having a JD a pre-requisite? What kind of base/commission do you make?

Thanks

[Locke N. Lawded]

Actually, bar review whoring pays pretty well.

You typically do need to have a JD and be a licensed attorney just because it's hard to sell something you have never had to endure yourself.

Base pay is $50K with commissions up to an additional $50K. Actually just got a nice commission check for $11K this week.

It's not a bad gig, actually. It's sort of like running your own business. You get to travel to lots of different schools around the country, give away swag, and raffle off iPods. The cons are having to schlep tons of crap around--and competition in this market is fierce.

Those 2008 and 2009 classmates of mine who managed to land jobs--with the exception of the lucky handful who got BigLaw--are all working BigLaw hours doing PI or ID work for less than what I make in base pay.

[TTTGrad]

To the original poster: Don't bother, your warning will fall on deaf ears.

Although your message is laudable, you are dealing with a generation that has been brainwashed into thinking that a legal career = wealth and success. Kids from Generation Y generally have shit for brains. I have practiced law for almost 20 years and the current climate from an employer's perspective is quite brutal. These kids have been warned so I won't feel sorry for them as I do for the Classes of 2009 and 2010 (these folks did not have the benefit of knowing that the economy would tank). As a midlaw partner who worked in biglaw and in-house counsel, my opinion is that going to law school these days is a losing proposition unless you go YHS and graduate in the top quarter. The rest of the T14 and TTTs are worthless in my opinion since these kids are not bringing any tangible skills, practical legal experience or a book of business. Since 2009 my firm has received hundreds of resumes from lawyers (laid off and deferred mostly) that have T14, law review, moot court, etc. credentials. These resumes go in the trash bin. If I can't send you in to argue a motion for summary judgment on day 1 or you don't have a portable business of at least $2M, you are of no use to me. Biglaw is currently re-deferring the Class of 2009 in addition to the Class of 2010 (these poor souls will never start) and the bulk of legal work is being outsourced to India and the Philippines to barristers for pennies on the dollar. But hey, these kids have put their deposits down and have swallowed the Dean's rosy outlook about how in 2016 the economy will be booming and demand for lawyers will be at an all-time high. So OP, leave these kids alone and let them learn the hard way.

[dk8]

To the original poster: Don't bother, your warning will fall on deaf ears.

Although your message is laudable, you are dealing with a generation that has been brainwashed into thinking that a legal career = wealth and success. Kids from Generation Y generally have shit for brains. I have practiced law for almost 20 years and the current climate from an employer's perspective is quite brutal. These kids have been warned so I won't feel sorry for them as I do for the Classes of 2009 and 2010 (these folks did not have the benefit of knowing that the economy would tank). As a midlaw partner who worked in biglaw and in-house counsel, my opinion is that going to law school these days is a losing proposition unless you go YHS and graduate in the top quarter. The rest of the T14 and TTTs are worthless in my opinion since these kids are not bringing any tangible skills, practical legal experience or a book of business. Since 2009 my firm has received hundreds of resumes from lawyers (laid off and deferred mostly) that have T14, law review, moot court, etc. credentials. These resumes go in the trash bin. If I can't send you in to argue a motion for summary judgment on day 1 or you don't have a portable business of at least $2M, you are of no use to me. Biglaw is currently re-deferring the Class of 2009 in addition to the Class of 2010 (these poor souls will never start) and the bulk of legal work is being outsourced to India and the Philippines to barristers for pennies on the dollar. But hey, these kids have put their deposits down and have swallowed the Dean's rosy outlook about how in 2016 the economy will be booming and demand for lawyers will be at an all-time high. So OP, leave these kids alone and let them learn the hard way.

saying things like this really hurts your credibility.

[triathlete0128]

Double post.

I'll use this opportunity to reiterate no one wants to read your blog.

i found this hilarious and am still actually laughing.

seriously though, this is amazing.

[pjo]

I just don't get all of these "law=worst career ever" posts. Honestly, if you're going to come on here and just be exuberantly negative about law, at the very least you should offer up some other viable options. I mean cmon, sure law isn't doing well right now..but is it because of the career itslef or is it just indicative of the economy as a whole? Maybe I'll go to law school and I won't find any work but guess what... 90% of my friends that graduated from undergrad this year w/decent grades all in different fields cannot find ANY work either and they're moving back in with their parents. My handful of friends that found work were either 1.pharmacy or 2.engineering...both of which I would not be very good at. I mean honestly what do you propose that all of these law school applicants that don't get accpeted to YHS do instead of going to law school? Please...I'd LOVE to hear some advice on this. What career should we be looking into instead of law?

[NU_Jet55]

To the original poster: Don't bother, your warning will

This is as far as I got.

[dk8]

To the original poster: Don't bother, your warning will

This is as far as I got.

There was no use in reading any further. His position ("law school ITE is a bad decision") is highly defensible using real stats. Instead, he chooses to wildly exaggerate and pretend that there is 0 awareness of ITE on this site.

[joeshmo39]

To the original poster: Don't bother, your warning will fall on deaf ears.

Although your message is laudable, you are dealing with a generation that has been brainwashed into thinking that a legal career = wealth and success. Kids from Generation Y generally have shit for brains. I have practiced law for almost 20 years and the current climate from an employer's perspective is quite brutal. These kids have been warned so I won't feel sorry for them as I do for the Classes of 2009 and 2010 (these folks did not have the benefit of knowing that the economy would tank). As a midlaw partner who worked in biglaw and in-house counsel, my opinion is that going to law school these days is a losing proposition unless you go YHS and graduate in the top quarter. The rest of the T14 and TTTs are worthless in my opinion since these kids are not bringing any tangible skills, practical legal experience or a book of business. Since 2009 my firm has received hundreds of resumes from lawyers (laid off and deferred mostly) that have T14, law review, moot court, etc. credentials. These resumes go in the trash bin. If I can't send you in to argue a motion for summary judgment on day 1 or you don't have a portable business of at least $2M, you are of no use to me. Biglaw is currently re-deferring the Class of 2009 in addition to the Class of 2010 (these poor souls will never start) and the bulk of legal work is being outsourced to India and the Philippines to barristers for pennies on the dollar. But hey, these kids have put their deposits down and have swallowed the Dean's rosy outlook about how in 2016 the economy will be booming and demand for lawyers will be at an all-time high. So OP, leave these kids alone and let them learn the hard way.

Saying Things like this really hurts your credibility.

*Edited for parity

[romothesavior]

The rest of the T14 and TTTs are worthless in my opinion since these kids are not bringing any tangible skills, practical legal experience or a book of business. Since 2009 my firm has received hundreds of resumes from lawyers (laid off and deferred mostly) that have T14, law review, moot court, etc. credentials. These resumes go in the trash bin. If I can't send you in to argue a motion for summary judgment on day 1 or you don't have a portable business of at least $2M, you are of no use to me.

O rly?

[CG614]

To the original poster: Don't bother, your warning will fall on deaf ears.

Although your message is laudable, you are dealing with a generation that has been brainwashed into thinking that a legal career = wealth and success. Kids from Generation Y generally have shit for brains. I have practiced law for almost 20 years and the current climate from an employer's perspective is quite brutal. These kids have been warned so I won't feel sorry for them as I do for the Classes of 2009 and 2010 (these folks did not have the benefit of knowing that the economy would tank). As a midlaw partner who worked in biglaw and in-house counsel, my opinion is that going to law school these days is a losing proposition unless you go YHS and graduate in the top quarter. The rest of the T14 and TTTs are worthless in my opinion since these kids are not bringing any tangible skills, practical legal experience or a book of business. Since 2009 my firm has received hundreds of resumes from lawyers (laid off and deferred mostly) that have T14, law review, moot court, etc. credentials. These resumes go in the trash bin. If I can't send you in to argue a motion for summary judgment on day 1 or you don't have a portable business of at least $2M, you are of no use to me. Biglaw is currently re-deferring the Class of 2009 in addition to the Class of 2010 (these poor souls will never start) and the bulk of legal work is being outsourced to India and the Philippines to barristers for pennies on the dollar. But hey, these kids have put their deposits down and have swallowed the Dean's rosy outlook about how in 2016 the economy will be booming and demand for lawyers will be at an all-time high. So OP, leave these kids alone and let them learn the hard way.

So you are a "TTTGrad" who is now a midlaw partner and you are bashing all the T14 minus HYS? Too many flaws in your reasoning to point out.

[GATORTIM]

I just don't get all of these "law=worst career ever" posts. Honestly, if you're going to come on here and just be exuberantly negative about law, at the very least you should offer up some other viable options. I mean cmon, sure law isn't doing well right now..but is it because of the career itslef or is it just indicative of the economy as a whole? Maybe I'll go to law school and I won't find any work but guess what... 90% of my friends that graduated from undergrad this year w/decent grades all in different fields cannot find ANY work either and they're moving back in with their parents. My handful of friends that found work were either 1.pharmacy or 2.engineering...both of which I would not be very good at. I mean honestly what do you propose that all of these law school applicants that don't get accpeted to YHS do instead of going to law school? Please...I'd LOVE to hear some advice on this. What career should we be looking into instead of law?

this...perhaps OP should just grab the bull by the horns and advise 18 year olds to completely skip undergrad; afterall, I know many ppl that were killin' it in '07/'08 with a BS/BA but cannot find employment ITE. Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.

[Tanicius]

Although your message is laudable, you are dealing with a generation that has been brainwashed into thinking that a legal career = wealth and success. Kids from Generation Y generally have shit for brains. I have practiced law for almost 20 years and the current climate from an employer's perspective is quite brutal. These kids have been warned so I won't feel sorry for them as I do for the Classes of 2009 and 2010 (these folks did not have the benefit of knowing that the economy would tank). As a midlaw partner who worked in biglaw and in-house counsel, my opinion is that going to law school these days is a losing proposition unless you go YHS and graduate in the top quarter. The rest of the T14 and TTTs are worthless in my opinion since these kids are not bringing any tangible skills, practical legal experience or a book of business. Since 2009 my firm has received hundreds of resumes from lawyers (laid off and deferred mostly) that have T14, law review, moot court, etc. credentials. These resumes go in the trash bin. If I can't send you in to argue a motion for summary judgment on day 1 or you don't have a portable business of at least $2M, you are of no use to me. Biglaw is currently re-deferring the Class of 2009 in addition to the Class of 2010 (these poor souls will never start) and the bulk of legal work is being outsourced to India and the Philippines to barristers for pennies on the dollar. But hey, these kids have put their deposits down and have swallowed the Dean's rosy outlook about how in 2016 the economy will be booming and demand for lawyers will be at an all-time high. So OP, leave these kids alone and let them learn the hard way.

LOL. It takes what, an hour, to teach something like that to someone who's new on the job? Either they will have the talent to look credible standing up before a court or they won't. You're denying your business multitudes of capable people just because they have no job experience, as if graduating in the top 25% at Yale magically makes someone more down to Earth and more qualified to argue summary judgments on Day 1.

[dk8]

Although your message is laudable, you are dealing with a generation that has been brainwashed into thinking that a legal career = wealth and success. Kids from Generation Y generally have shit for brains. I have practiced law for almost 20 years and the current climate from an employer's perspective is quite brutal. These kids have been warned so I won't feel sorry for them as I do for the Classes of 2009 and 2010 (these folks did not have the benefit of knowing that the economy would tank). As a midlaw partner who worked in biglaw and in-house counsel, my opinion is that going to law school these days is a losing proposition unless you go YHS and graduate in the top quarter. The rest of the T14 and TTTs are worthless in my opinion since these kids are not bringing any tangible skills, practical legal experience or a book of business. Since 2009 my firm has received hundreds of resumes from lawyers (laid off and deferred mostly) that have T14, law review, moot court, etc. credentials. These resumes go in the trash bin. If I can't send you in to argue a motion for summary judgment on day 1 or you don't have a portable business of at least $2M, you are of no use to me. Biglaw is currently re-deferring the Class of 2009 in addition to the Class of 2010 (these poor souls will never start) and the bulk of legal work is being outsourced to India and the Philippines to barristers for pennies on the dollar. But hey, these kids have put their deposits down and have swallowed the Dean's rosy outlook about how in 2016 the economy will be booming and demand for lawyers will be at an all-time high. So OP, leave these kids alone and let them learn the hard way.

LOL. It takes what, an hour, to teach something like that to someone who's new on the job? Either they will have the talent to look credible standing up before a court or they won't. You're denying your business multitudes of capable people just because they have no job experience, as if graduating in the top 25% at Yale magically makes someone more down to Earth and more qualified to argue summary judgments on Day 1.

This is my first time ever saying this, but this dude is obviously a retarded troll from JDU. He will come back and say something like "You're just saying that because I told you that you wouldn't be wearing Alden shoes to your BIGLAW job!!!". No, it's because the statements you've made here thus far are so incredibly exaggerated and retarded.

[TTTGrad]

So you are a "TTTGrad" who is now a midlaw partner and you are bashing all the T14 minus HYS? Too many flaws in your reasoning to point out.[/quote]


I am a TTT grad in that I didn't come from YHS Law and in my opinion all other schools are TTT. I attended a Tier 1 law school (T25 to be specific) during the end of the Golden Age of the legal profession (i.e., your daydreaming version of "models and bottles" days). To the kid who says I have no credibility, I seek no validation from you. My statement is offered for what it is worth. I know you have already made the plunge. Study your ass off, cross your fingers and pray your investment doesn't sour. I hope for my sake I am wrong (re: the economy) but I am a realist and I archived my rose tinted glasses back in the late '90s. If you are in the T14 (excluding YHS) on a full scholarship, I suppose it won't harm you (unless you count the opportunity cost of three years of wages). However, for those paying sticker or are on partial scholarship, my advice is to stick it out for one semester. If your grades are not in the top quarter, you are wasting your time and money continuing on a downward spiral.

[Tanicius]

Although your message is laudable, you are dealing with a generation that has been brainwashed into thinking that a legal career = wealth and success. Kids from Generation Y generally have shit for brains. I have practiced law for almost 20 years and the current climate from an employer's perspective is quite brutal. These kids have been warned so I won't feel sorry for them as I do for the Classes of 2009 and 2010 (these folks did not have the benefit of knowing that the economy would tank). As a midlaw partner who worked in biglaw and in-house counsel, my opinion is that going to law school these days is a losing proposition unless you go YHS and graduate in the top quarter. The rest of the T14 and TTTs are worthless in my opinion since these kids are not bringing any tangible skills, practical legal experience or a book of business. Since 2009 my firm has received hundreds of resumes from lawyers (laid off and deferred mostly) that have T14, law review, moot court, etc. credentials. These resumes go in the trash bin. If I can't send you in to argue a motion for summary judgment on day 1 or you don't have a portable business of at least $2M, you are of no use to me. Biglaw is currently re-deferring the Class of 2009 in addition to the Class of 2010 (these poor souls will never start) and the bulk of legal work is being outsourced to India and the Philippines to barristers for pennies on the dollar. But hey, these kids have put their deposits down and have swallowed the Dean's rosy outlook about how in 2016 the economy will be booming and demand for lawyers will be at an all-time high. So OP, leave these kids alone and let them learn the hard way.

LOL. It takes what, an hour, to teach something like that to someone who's new on the job? Either they will have the talent to look credible standing up before a court or they won't. You're denying your business multitudes of capable people just because they have no job experience, as if graduating in the top 25% at Yale magically makes someone more down to Earth and more qualified to argue summary judgments on Day 1.

This is my first time ever saying this, but this dude is obviously a retarded troll from JDU. He will come back and say something like "You're just saying that because I told you that you wouldn't be wearing Alden shoes to your BIGLAW job!!!". No, it's because the statements you've made here thus far are so incredibly exaggerated and retarded.

...Huh? I don't think you understand what I was trying to say. I'm disagreeing with the idea that a T-14 graduate with law review and moot court experience is worthless to a law firm. My point is that if someone that ridiculously successful is trash to a firm, how in the hell would a top 25% HYS grad magically be anymore useful? My career goals aren't money, either, so I highly doubt I'll ever end up on JDU angry that I didn't get biglaw.

[MrKappus]

^

But if the bottom 75% drops out, then the top 25%ers aren't in the top 25% anymore!! It's a CONUNDRUM, I tell ya!

[GATORTIM]

To the original poster: Don't bother, your warning will fall on deaf ears.

Although your message is laudable, you are dealing with a generation that has been brainwashed into thinking that a legal career = wealth and success. Kids from Generation Y generally have shit for brains. I have practiced law for almost 20 years and the current climate from an employer's perspective is quite brutal. These kids have been warned so I won't feel sorry for them as I do for the Classes of 2009 and 2010 (these folks did not have the benefit of knowing that the economy would tank). As a midlaw partner who worked in biglaw and in-house counsel, my opinion is that going to law school these days is a losing proposition unless you go YHS and graduate in the top quarter. The rest of the T14 and TTTs are worthless in my opinion since these kids are not bringing any tangible skills, practical legal experience or a book of business. Since 2009 my firm has received hundreds of resumes from lawyers (laid off and deferred mostly) that have T14, law review, moot court, etc. credentials. These resumes go in the trash bin. If I can't send you in to argue a motion for summary judgment on day 1 or you don't have a portable business of at least $2M, you are of no use to me. Biglaw is currently re-deferring the Class of 2009 in addition to the Class of 2010 (these poor souls will never start) and the bulk of legal work is being outsourced to India and the Philippines to barristers for pennies on the dollar. But hey, these kids have put their deposits down and have swallowed the Dean's rosy outlook about how in 2016 the economy will be booming and demand for lawyers will be at an all-time high. So OP, leave these kids alone and let them learn the hard way.

How many LS grads have "tangible skills, practical legal experience or a book of business" on day 1. After reading your post it appears that we have found a new member in the "shit for brains" club, welcome. You write "If I can't send you in to argue a motion for summary judgment on day 1 or you don't have a portable business of at least $2M, you are no use to me", what a half-cocked crock of shit. Your firms placement of resumes in the trash bin is more likely attributed to the economy than to the quality of applicants as they would seemingly meet one of the two criteria for being of use to you as they are coming in with practical skills (law review, moot court, etc.).

[dk8]

Although your message is laudable, you are dealing with a generation that has been brainwashed into thinking that a legal career = wealth and success. Kids from Generation Y generally have shit for brains. I have practiced law for almost 20 years and the current climate from an employer's perspective is quite brutal. These kids have been warned so I won't feel sorry for them as I do for the Classes of 2009 and 2010 (these folks did not have the benefit of knowing that the economy would tank). As a midlaw partner who worked in biglaw and in-house counsel, my opinion is that going to law school these days is a losing proposition unless you go YHS and graduate in the top quarter. The rest of the T14 and TTTs are worthless in my opinion since these kids are not bringing any tangible skills, practical legal experience or a book of business. Since 2009 my firm has received hundreds of resumes from lawyers (laid off and deferred mostly) that have T14, law review, moot court, etc. credentials. These resumes go in the trash bin. If I can't send you in to argue a motion for summary judgment on day 1 or you don't have a portable business of at least $2M, you are of no use to me. Biglaw is currently re-deferring the Class of 2009 in addition to the Class of 2010 (these poor souls will never start) and the bulk of legal work is being outsourced to India and the Philippines to barristers for pennies on the dollar. But hey, these kids have put their deposits down and have swallowed the Dean's rosy outlook about how in 2016 the economy will be booming and demand for lawyers will be at an all-time high. So OP, leave these kids alone and let them learn the hard way.

LOL. It takes what, an hour, to teach something like that to someone who's new on the job? Either they will have the talent to look credible standing up before a court or they won't. You're denying your business multitudes of capable people just because they have no job experience, as if graduating in the top 25% at Yale magically makes someone more down to Earth and more qualified to argue summary judgments on Day 1.

This is my first time ever saying this, but this dude is obviously a retarded troll from JDU. He will come back and say something like "You're just saying that because I told you that you wouldn't be wearing Alden shoes to your BIGLAW job!!!". No, it's because the statements you've made here thus far are so incredibly exaggerated and retarded.

...Huh? I don't think you understand what I was trying to say. I'm disagreeing with the idea that a T-14 graduate with law review and moot court experience is worthless to a law firm. My point is that if someone that ridiculously successful is trash to a firm, how in the hell would a top 25% HYS grad magically be anymore useful? My career goals aren't money, either, so I highly doubt I'll ever end up JDU angry that I didn't get biglaw.

I agree with you man. I was talking about TTTgrad. I really shouldn't respond to him but I'm bored at work.