WUSTL Class of 2013

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2013)
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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby romothesavior » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:16 pm

JCougar wrote:LOL. There's a posting on our job board for Cincinnati midlaw. They want top 10% of course. They'll probably get it, too, ITE.

People should still apply. Most firms that say "Top x %" won't get it. Supposed cutoffs are generally pretty inaccurate.

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K.R.I.T.
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby K.R.I.T. » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:58 pm

fl0w wrote:So maybe this will make people smile (maybe especially those that got mad at me for posting things previously..karma..etc...)

I was out at the annex this past weekend and was walking toward the door and all of a sudden a dude swings at me. Barely misses my face. Turns out he was swinging at the guy on the other side of me. He hits him. Then a random 3rd guy smashes a glass over the first guy's head. Blood is everywhere.

Best part? I'm wearing a white track jacket. Covered in blood.
Spent 2hrs on saturday cleaning strange blood from my precious white track jacket.

classy place.


Two weeks ago I was at the Annex with another 2L transfer. He started conversing with a drunk girl, who for no apparent reason, decided to punch him in the face. Her boyfriend, also drunk, got in our face and rambled nothings for a good 2 minutes. I proceeded to throw him across the bar.

I was then restrained by the bartenders who jumped over the bar. As they were in the midst of tossing me from the premises, the same girl punched one of the bartenders in the ear. In the end, I was allowed to stay, and the drunk couple were escorted out.

Needless to say, I'm not going back there anytime soon.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby romothesavior » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:35 am

Anybody know what an "evidence" is? Apparently there is a midterm about it tomorrow.

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fl0w
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby fl0w » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:43 pm

romothesavior wrote:Anybody know what an "evidence" is? Apparently there is a midterm about it tomorrow.


see my response in the other thread, but no, i dunno what it iz.


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quadsixm
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby quadsixm » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:55 pm



Knew it was ATL-worthy within seconds of reading that email. Completely over the top.

Total Litigator
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby Total Litigator » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:15 pm

I was just crossing my fingers hoping that no one would submit it.... Oh well....

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby romothesavior » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:14 pm

Total Litigator wrote:I was just crossing my fingers hoping that no one would submit it.... Oh well....

Yeah, I hoped it wouldn't get sent either, but when you email something that off the wall and ridiculous to 850 of your peers, it is probably bound to get out.

Oban
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby Oban » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:32 am

I wanted to send an email bank: "Rant much?" but thought better of it.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby Sauer Grapes » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:35 pm

quadsixm wrote:


Knew it was ATL-worthy within seconds of reading that email. Completely over the top.

Holy crap. Is that guy as douchey in real life as he comes across in that email?

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby romothesavior » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:50 pm

Sauer Grapes wrote:
quadsixm wrote:


Knew it was ATL-worthy within seconds of reading that email. Completely over the top.

Holy crap. Is that guy as douchey in real life as he comes across in that email?

Actually no. He's very quirky, but generally a good guy.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby Sauer Grapes » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:52 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Sauer Grapes wrote:
quadsixm wrote:


Knew it was ATL-worthy within seconds of reading that email. Completely over the top.

Holy crap. Is that guy as douchey in real life as he comes across in that email?

Actually no. He's very quirky, but generally a good guy.

That's good. Does he realize how pretentious the email made him look? I feel sorry for him that it ended up on ATL. Of course, it appears that he took plenty of time to think the email over.

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Rammstein
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby Rammstein » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:24 pm

Hey guys, I'm hoping you could throw me some guidance here. I'm a transfer who needs to take crim law with the 1Ls next semester. Any recommendation between Inazu, Kim, and Osgood? I've only heard negative reviews re: Kim, so any thoughts would be appreciated. Hope you all are enjoying 2L as much as I am.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby romothesavior » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:13 pm

Rammstein wrote:Hey guys, I'm hoping you could throw me some guidance here. I'm a transfer who needs to take crim law with the 1Ls next semester. Any recommendation between Inazu, Kim, and Osgood? I've only heard negative reviews re: Kim, so any thoughts would be appreciated. Hope you all are enjoying 2L as much as I am.

I don't think any of those three taught Crim last semester, did they? Which Kim are you talking about? Anthony Kim? If so, I had him for something and thought he was alright. Real nice guy and I think he'll make a good professor, he's just settling into his own and still learning the ropes I suppose.

I've heard Osgood is good. Can't give you much help, maybe someone else has had one of these three.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby romothesavior » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:01 pm

Anyone go to this Becker Project thing at lunch today? Any thoughts?

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby TatteredDignity » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:24 pm

They seemed to indicate that the program would, at first, look like an extension of what the CSO will currently do for you: give you 5 names in the market you're interested in and have you meet with them and try to just keep expanding your network.

They currently have 3,000 names of wash u alums and they want all of us to pledge to join the network when we're out.

It's basically school-assisted networking. Seemed to be a pretty good thing.

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bouakedojo
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby bouakedojo » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:58 pm

I went to the Becker thing.

Aside from the strategy of giving you names of alumni, it was mostly advice you can get from this book:

Image


The professor seemed really cool, though. I think I want to take a class with him.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby romothesavior » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:23 pm

0LNewbie wrote:They seemed to indicate that the program would, at first, look like an extension of what the CSO will currently do for you: give you 5 names in the market you're interested in and have you meet with them and try to just keep expanding your network.

They currently have 3,000 names of wash u alums and they want all of us to pledge to join the network when we're out.

It's basically school-assisted networking. Seemed to be a pretty good thing.

Yeah, this is what I figured. Just not sold on how much this going to help students. I know people with like top 1/3 grades who have gone to the CSO for names, and they give them people at places like Kirkland and Skadden. What good does that do anyone?

I'm a big proponent of networking, and I like this idea, but you can't network your way into a job that doesn't exist. And even if alumni want to help you, they often can't because of interoffice politics. I had a Wash U alum on a hiring committee at a big firm practically admit he wanted to hire a few more WUSTLers, but they couldn't extend more offers because the other people on the committee wanted other schools.

I'm sure this will help and I hope it does, but I hope the CSO has more tricks up their sleeves than "network more."

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JCougar
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby JCougar » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:56 pm

I think today's event was more about getting small and midlaw jobs than getting biglaw jobs. I asked the CSO for a list of WUSTL attorneys in St. Louis firms that practiced in my area last year, and they gave me one. I sent a resume out to each for 1L summer saying that I'd work unpaid, and only got one response...it was a guy saying that I could contribute to his legal blog for free. He was like "I'd love to give you an unpaid 1L internship but I don't even have enough work to give you even if you're working for free." Basically, any work he gets he's going to bill for himself.

The simple problem is that the CSO can't create jobs when there aren't any. A good chunk of T14 students are struggling these days. What does that say about us? There's nothing anyone can do about it except get lucky with grades/biglaw or network. Sending your resume around to get stacked in a pile of 1,000 other resumes sent in for the same 2 openings isn't going to do anything, unless you're someone in the top 15% or so that simply got screwed at OCI. Mass mails only work for people that would have gotten a job through OCI anyways.

I love to network and talk to attorneys. It's fun and very rewarding. The problem is, there's only a limited amount of avenues to make contact with people that are extremely busy themselves. There's only job fairs for IP/minority stuff. Probably 99 out of 100 attorneys you try to network with won't have the time or won't have any job openings in the immediate future. But the benefit is that, down the road, something might pop up, and if you apply, they might remember you and it might help you stand out from the rest of the 1,000 applicants that will be sending in their resumes for a position. Or maybe if you want to lateral into their firm 4 years down the road or something. The bottom line is that nothing in this economy is going to be very effective, but this can't really hurt you.

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Rammstein
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby Rammstein » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:35 pm

.
Last edited by Rammstein on Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby romothesavior » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:39 pm

Rammstein wrote:This is depressing.

I received my 60th or so rejection in the mail today. I'm convinced employers can actually smell how desperate I am. I'm going to start looking into opps in other industries now... positions that I would likely have reached had I not gone to law school in the first place.

Sucks man/lady, sorry to hear it. Things are just brutal out there. Have you utilized the CSO? And are these just mass mail rejections? In general, if your grades aren't near the top of the class, mass mailing is close to useless. Obviously you have to do it, but your odds of getting a job from a cold email or resume dump are just so small. Your best bet (if you haven't already been doing this) is to reach out to alumni at whatever firms you are applying to and ask them to either talk with you or send your resume to the recruiter for you. No shame at this point, although most SA jobs are probably taken by now.

If you really want to be a lawyer though, don't give up. We still have a year and a half until graduation, and a lot of employers don't even hire until after bar results. Obviously if you have a lot of debt this may limit your options, but I really do believe that most people who want to work as a lawyer can do so from WUSTL. The issue is that the price of the school doesn't justify the income opportunities.

I'm sorry to hear it. :cry: I really hope things work out for you (and all of our classmates).

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thexfactor
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby thexfactor » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:45 pm

JCougar wrote:I think today's event was more about getting small and midlaw jobs than getting biglaw jobs. I asked the CSO for a list of WUSTL attorneys in St. Louis firms that practiced in my area last year, and they gave me one. I sent a resume out to each for 1L summer saying that I'd work unpaid, and only got one response...it was a guy saying that I could contribute to his legal blog for free. He was like "I'd love to give you an unpaid 1L internship but I don't even have enough work to give you even if you're working for free." Basically, any work he gets he's going to bill for himself.

The simple problem is that the CSO can't create jobs when there aren't any. A good chunk of T14 students are struggling these days. What does that say about us? There's nothing anyone can do about it except get lucky with grades/biglaw or network. Sending your resume around to get stacked in a pile of 1,000 other resumes sent in for the same 2 openings isn't going to do anything, unless you're someone in the top 15% or so that simply got screwed at OCI. Mass mails only work for people that would have gotten a job through OCI anyways.

I love to network and talk to attorneys. It's fun and very rewarding. The problem is, there's only a limited amount of avenues to make contact with people that are extremely busy themselves. There's only job fairs for IP/minority stuff. Probably 99 out of 100 attorneys you try to network with won't have the time or won't have any job openings in the immediate future. But the benefit is that, down the road, something might pop up, and if you apply, they might remember you and it might help you stand out from the rest of the 1,000 applicants that will be sending in their resumes for a position. Or maybe if you want to lateral into their firm 4 years down the road or something. The bottom line is that nothing in this economy is going to be very effective, but this can't really hurt you.


When you are a 3L even being in the top 15% wouldn't do anything for you........

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Rammstein
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby Rammstein » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:47 pm

Tuition is certainly steep. I can't be sure but I think my status as a transfer student has also limited my options- it seems most of the other transfers I know are struggling mightily. The truth is I know my opportunities are much better at WUSTL than what they were at my first institution, and I know I'm going to come out of here pretty competent in whatever I do.
Last edited by Rammstein on Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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thexfactor
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby thexfactor » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:50 pm

romothesavior wrote:
0LNewbie wrote:They seemed to indicate that the program would, at first, look like an extension of what the CSO will currently do for you: give you 5 names in the market you're interested in and have you meet with them and try to just keep expanding your network.

They currently have 3,000 names of wash u alums and they want all of us to pledge to join the network when we're out.

It's basically school-assisted networking. Seemed to be a pretty good thing.

Yeah, this is what I figured. Just not sold on how much this going to help students. I know people with like top 1/3 grades who have gone to the CSO for names, and they give them people at places like Kirkland and Skadden. What good does that do anyone?

I'm a big proponent of networking, and I like this idea, but you can't network your way into a job that doesn't exist. And even if alumni want to help you, they often can't because of interoffice politics. I had a Wash U alum on a hiring committee at a big firm practically admit he wanted to hire a few more WUSTLers, but they couldn't extend more offers because the other people on the committee wanted other schools.
I'm sure this will help and I hope it does, but I hope the CSO has more tricks up their sleeves than "network more."


I think that is one of the biggest problems with Washu. Our recent rise has meant that a lot of WUSTLers are only in junior positions either being a junior partner or associate. I've noticed that people tend to like people that are similar to themselves. In a law firm, one of the easiest things people tend to connect with is the name of your law school. This sometimes hurts WUSTLers cuz we just don't have many WUSTLers in hiring positions.

I agree that all the networking in the world isn't going to help if there isn't a job opening. However, you just have to suck it up and keep fighting on. You just have to HOPE like obama that things will get better.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL Class of 2013

Postby romothesavior » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:52 pm

Rammstein wrote:Tuition is certainly steep. I can't be sure but I think my status as a transfer student has also limited my options- it seems most of the other transfers I know are struggling mightily. The truth is I know my opportunities are much better at WUSTL than what they were at my first institution, and I know I'm going to come out of here pretty competent in whatever I do.

Do you think reaching out some state trial courts for a summer clerkship would be worthwhile? I hear summer clerkships in my home state are pretty easy to get. Would that be a marketable addition to my resume for next year's job search?

Personally, I think the most important thing for you to do is try to find a job that can lead to full time, post-graduate employment. Taking an unpaid job that has no possibility of permanent placement seems like throwing in the towel, but that's just my opinion. If you don't have a full-time job as a 3L and you have great grades, then go for a post-grad clerkship and try to secure a full-time job after that. But I don't see working for a judge being helpful for most people as a 2L.

And yeah, I think in general it is hard to transfer here, unless you are a native of St. Louis coming back home. You sacrifice a lot (grades, possibly law review and scholarships, etc.) and are basically treated like a median student here. It is a tough situation. Is there a particular market you're targeting?




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