Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

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Renzo
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby Renzo » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:42 pm

Tanicius wrote:
What kind of experience would that be? Watching discoveries? Watching trials? Being in an office while the actual attorneys discuss cases? I mean, sure, that can perhaps give you a leg up on people if you end up doing litigation because you won't necessarily be as lost as the next guy, but that kind of "experience" doesn't even take an internship. You can go down to your local courthouse and volunteer and end up doing the exact same stuff.

Yes, but about 0% of law students do go volunteer at the courthouse, so having watched such work full-time for ten weeks over the summer would give you roughly 400 hours more experience than your classmates.

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Tanicius
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby Tanicius » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:47 pm

Renzo wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
What kind of experience would that be? Watching discoveries? Watching trials? Being in an office while the actual attorneys discuss cases? I mean, sure, that can perhaps give you a leg up on people if you end up doing litigation because you won't necessarily be as lost as the next guy, but that kind of "experience" doesn't even take an internship. You can go down to your local courthouse and volunteer and end up doing the exact same stuff.

Yes, but about 0% of law students do go volunteer at the courthouse, so having watched such work full-time for ten weeks over the summer would give you roughly 400 hours more experience than your classmates.


I disagree with that because I spent two summers after junior and senior years in high school at my local courthouse, as have several of my friends from high school. I'm sure lots of people who are interested in litigation do it (it's one way for future lawyers to become interested in litigation). At the same time, I doubt it would help much to bring that kind of thing up with a Vault 50 firm regardless of the kinds of skills you could demonstrate to them because it is probably more the good impression such a competitive internship gives them rather than the actual experience. Also, let's face it: If you're signed up for a litigation track at a Vault 50 firm and you didn't learn what you're expected by the firm to have learned about litigation from law school, you're in trouble, internship or not.

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KidA23
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby KidA23 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:50 pm

A bunch of us should get together and come up with things women look for in men besides good looks, money, and personality and then start a thread about it.

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BradyToMoss
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby BradyToMoss » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:52 pm

KidA23 wrote:A bunch of us should get together and come up with things women look for in men besides good looks, money, and personality and then start a thread about it.


That's done about once every six months, if not more.

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Tanicius
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby Tanicius » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:52 pm

KidA23 wrote:A bunch of us should get together and come up with things women look for in men besides good looks, money, and personality and then start a thread about it.


They like CV's with serious litigation and transnational banking experience. :P

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CE2JD
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby CE2JD » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:53 pm

Firms only care about how well you spot issues on Torts exams. Why can't you understand how this directly relates to biglaw corporate work? It's so obvious.

Renzo
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby Renzo » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:57 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Renzo wrote:Yes, but about 0% of law students do go volunteer at the courthouse, so having watched such work full-time for ten weeks over the summer would give you roughly 400 hours more experience than your classmates.


I disagree with that because I spent two summers after junior and senior years in high school at my local courthouse, as have several of my friends from high school. I'm sure lots of people who are interested in litigation do it (it's one way for future lawyers to become interested in litigation). At the same time, I doubt it would help much to bring that kind of thing up with a Vault 50 firm regardless of the kinds of skills you could demonstrate to them because it is probably more the good impression such a competitive internship gives them rather than the actual experience. Also, let's face it: If you're signed up for a litigation track at a Vault 50 firm and you didn't learn what you're expected by the firm to have learned about litigation from law school, you're in trouble, internship or not.

That makes you the "about" in "about 0%."You're right that pedigree matters, and getting a competitive internship looks good, but it's also about having something to say in an interview. It helps to be able to say, "While at _______ I saw ______, and it was interesting; that convinced me that __________practice area was right for me." That's where the "experience" comes in handy.

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chris0805
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby chris0805 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:31 am

I was just reading over this topic out of curiousity, but I would disagree with the sentiment that there is no significant litigation experience as an intern. I understand that an AUSA office probably has more resources and thus might delegate less to interns, but in public defenders offices, interns:

Research major issues to the case,
Write motions,
meet with clients,
help with pleadings, direct/cross, openings/closings, etc.


in some states, you can even stand up in court and make an opening as 1L (you need to be a 2L to do this in NY though).

Finally, I'd add that the vast majority of litigation work is research & writing, not standing up and talking. If you had to write a motion to supress evidence or qualify an expert witness, I'd call that fairly 'significant litigation experience.' People should really consider DA/PD offices as 1L internships if they're interested in litigation. (and as a 2L if they have a passion for prosecution or indigent defense).

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Kohinoor
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:35 am

CE2JD wrote:Firms only care about how well you spot issues on Torts exams. Why can't you understand how this directly relates to biglaw corporate work? It's so obvious.

This man's tune will change when he grades onto law review and realizes that grades = ability.

Bankhead
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby Bankhead » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:43 am

are they really, really, ridiculously good looking?

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RVP11
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby RVP11 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:21 pm

Bankhead wrote:are they really, really, ridiculously good looking?


Actually a pretty big factor.

Are you attractive? Or are you a really good schmoozer? This is probably worth more than .1 GPA for the vast majority of firms.

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BradyToMoss
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby BradyToMoss » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:51 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
Bankhead wrote:are they really, really, ridiculously good looking?


Actually a pretty big factor.

Are you attractive? Or are you a really good schmoozer? This is probably worth more than .1 GPA for the vast majority of firms.


+1.

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CE2JD
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby CE2JD » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:54 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
Bankhead wrote:are they really, really, ridiculously good looking?


Actually a pretty big factor.

Are you attractive? Or are you a really good schmoozer? This is probably worth more than .1 GPA for the vast majority of firms.


Were you brushing your beautiful hair and practicing your smile in the mirror when you posted this?

Anonymous User
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:31 am

CE2JD wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
Bankhead wrote:are they really, really, ridiculously good looking?


Actually a pretty big factor.

Are you attractive? Or are you a really good schmoozer? This is probably worth more than .1 GPA for the vast majority of firms.


Were you brushing your beautiful hair and practicing your smile in the mirror when you posted this?


I guarantee you that looks count. People just like dealing with hotties more than ugos. Fact. Get used to it.

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Kiersten1985
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby Kiersten1985 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
Bankhead wrote:are they really, really, ridiculously good looking?


Actually a pretty big factor.

Are you attractive? Or are you a really good schmoozer? This is probably worth more than .1 GPA for the vast majority of firms.


Were you brushing your beautiful hair and practicing your smile in the mirror when you posted this?


I guarantee you that looks count. People just like dealing with hotties more than ugos. Fact. Get used to it.


I would qualify that to mean how you present yourself (well-dressed, groomed, demeanor). I actually think being a supermodel (female) and interviewing with a woman might be a negative. Height and stature definitely factor in, though.

And wear glasses. They make you look smart. :wink:

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BradyToMoss
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Re: Biglaw Hiring: Factors other than school and grades.

Postby BradyToMoss » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
Bankhead wrote:are they really, really, ridiculously good looking?


Actually a pretty big factor.

Are you attractive? Or are you a really good schmoozer? This is probably worth more than .1 GPA for the vast majority of firms.


Were you brushing your beautiful hair and practicing your smile in the mirror when you posted this?


I guarantee you that looks count. People just like dealing with hotties more than ugos. Fact. Get used to it.


Let's stop using the anonymous feature when handing out guarantees.




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