possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

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MC Southstar
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby MC Southstar » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:58 pm

So... considering I'm a CS major, would it be a waste of my time to take the patent BAR?

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vanwinkle
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:04 pm

This is the first thread I have ever read that actually made me regret my undergrad degree choice.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby Big Shrimpin » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:08 pm

c
Last edited by Big Shrimpin on Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

inuitsoar
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby inuitsoar » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:10 pm

thegor1987 wrote:
inuitsoar wrote:
Lxw wrote:
thegor1987 wrote:It does not need to be an engineering degree as long as you can take the patent bar you'll be fine, it can be chemistry or physics. However, I've heard on TLS that you have an advantage getting a phD or Masters so your firm can sell you as Dr. X rather than Mr. X. which makes sense too me

Read the OP. He doesn't just not have an engineering degree, I don't think he even has a science degree. Saying that he'll be find as long as he can take the patent bar is like saying Seton Hall grads are fine for getting biglaw because they can sit for the NY Bar. Just think about why a firm would want to hire someone without a science or engineering degree when they can hire someone just as good who has one.

It's an uphill battle, and if you want to pursue it then that's your prerogative.

OP-- you took enough physics courses to sit for the patent bar. You are aware that there are other course requirements in addition to physics, right?


* 24 hrs physics

-or-

* 8 hrs chemistry or 8 hrs physics (must be sequential and include a lab) + 24 hrs of biology, botany, microbiology or molecular biology

-or-

* 30 hrs of chemistry

-or-

* 8 hrs of chemistry or 8 hrs of physics (must be sequential and include a lab) + 32 hrs of chemistry, physics, biology, botany, microbiology, molecular biology and engineering


OP, where are you getting this specific credit hour data from? I believe you must have a B.S. science degree such as physics, chem. botany, etc...


http://www.uspto.gov/ip/boards/oed/exam/registration.jsp
My B.S. is in math, but I minored in physics.

deathviaboredom
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby deathviaboredom » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:47 pm

A
Last edited by deathviaboredom on Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wahoo1L
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby Wahoo1L » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:03 am

deathviaboredom wrote:My dad's an IP/patent litigator.
He was a psych undergrad with a business degree.
He did all his pre-med requirements (physics 1 yr, 2 yrs chem including orgo, 1 years bio, 1 year math) at Columbia


Patent Prosecution =/= Patent Litigation. Anyone can do patent litigation.

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:20 am

Yeah, patent litigation is generally done by litigators with consulting from either the firm's hard IP people in the field or outside advisors. Having some idea of what the words that are coming out of your computer/mouth mean probably helps, but most people are smart enough to get that point without a degree.

plex
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby plex » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:43 pm

This thread seems to be somewhat on the right track at least. My background is (BSEE, patent agent, 3L, law firm prosecution experience).

To the OP: The advice made to you is correct, trying to become a Category B patent agent will help, but your prospects are pretty weak, at least for patent prosecution. It will help, but it won't be a huge factor. Litigation and other types of IP do indeed mostly depend on your law background, if that is what you are aiming for, just stick to getting good grades, and perhaps take the patent bar after finishing. The patent bar has a much lower pass rate than the state bar, it is certainly not a quick weekend of studying like the professional responsibility exam (if you have to take it).

To everyone else: Patent prosecution has slowed down somewhat, but it is indeed nothing like the general law market. It is also a tiny chunk of the legal market, so it often goes unnoticed from the general statistics. The difference in networking oppurtunities is literally night and day though at my law school.

Also from my experience in the law firm world, while it is harder, you are not screwed if you do not have an EE degree. I have seen many ME's (some from low T4s even), Chem E's, and even a CS, get hired (also, on one of my interviews, I definitely remember one of the partners being very interested in what programming languages I knew). There are only a handful of T1 EE's, they can't fill in the hundreds of potential positions. The reason there is a higher demand, for now, for EEs is because about half of all patents deal with complex electrical inventions. The vast majority of those who naturally go the rigorous EE route love technology, absolutely hate writing, also have a very good background for the financial sector (which does not necessarily require much writing), and as such, would not touch the legal field with a 10-foot pole. Of course, what is in demand will change, slowly, as other disciplines become more dominant. In the past, mechanical inventions were heavily prevalent, and in the distant future, I would not be surprised if chemical/biotech start making up the majority of patented subject matter.

09042014
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:52 pm

Does having a BSEE help getting a patent litigation job? I'll be attending NU next year.

Also how bad do I to fuck up at NU to not get a prosecution job. I hope to have passed the patent bar before my 1L starts, and I have very crappy work experience. My EE degree came from a great school for EE, but my GPA is 2.8.

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CE2JD
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby CE2JD » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:48 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Does having a BSEE help getting a patent litigation job? I'll be attending NU next year.

Also how bad do I to fuck up at NU to not get a prosecution job. I hope to have passed the patent bar before my 1L starts, and I have very crappy work experience. My EE degree came from a great school for EE, but my GPA is 2.8.


I've had a 1L summer job interview and the interviewing attorney seemed VERY interested in my UG transcript (3.6 from TTT undergrad in EE). He asked me all about my knowledge of semiconductors in particular.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:53 pm

dont you already have a 1L job

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CE2JD
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby CE2JD » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:23 pm

Lxw wrote:dont you already have a 1L job


Wait... are we counting pimping services for your mom?

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:30 pm

CE2JD wrote:
Lxw wrote:dont you already have a 1L job

Wait... are we counting pimping services for your mom?

Depends... you have a lot of necrophiliac clients?

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CE2JD
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby CE2JD » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:31 pm

Lxw wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
Lxw wrote:dont you already have a 1L job

Wait... are we counting pimping services for your mom?

Depends... you have a lot of necrophiliac clients?


You'd be surprised what some people are into.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:34 pm

CE2JD wrote:You'd be surprised what some people are into.

Oh I'm well aware of what people are into, I'm just wondering what kind of person takes it upon himself to make sure such people get to relish in their fetish

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CE2JD
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby CE2JD » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:39 pm

Lxw wrote:
CE2JD wrote:You'd be surprised what some people are into.

Oh I'm well aware of what people are into, I'm just wondering what kind of person takes it upon himself to make sure such people get to relish in their fetish


To answer your original question, I have offers from Cravath, Wachtell, and God.
I'm trying to decide which one to take. Advice?

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:48 pm

I'd take the offer from Satan.

06072010
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby 06072010 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:00 pm

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:Yeah, patent litigation is generally done by litigators with consulting from either the firm's hard IP people in the field or outside advisors. Having some idea of what the words that are coming out of your computer/mouth mean probably helps, but most people are smart enough to get that point without a degree.


This depends on what type of patent lit you are talking. Some patent lit is commodity work that any litigator can do. But patent defense --especially when you're looking at scope of claims, freedom to operate stuff-- will be sent to a specific patent lit department at most firms.

deathviaboredom
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby deathviaboredom » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:21 pm

.
Last edited by deathviaboredom on Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dcgirl1013
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby dcgirl1013 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:48 pm

deathviaboredom wrote:
Wahoo1L wrote:
deathviaboredom wrote:My dad's an IP/patent litigator.
He was a psych undergrad with a business degree.
He did all his pre-med requirements (physics 1 yr, 2 yrs chem including orgo, 1 years bio, 1 year math) at Columbia


Patent Prosecution =/= Patent Litigation. Anyone can do patent litigation.


He does litigation on both sides. I didn't say defense



Hah! from that comment I would say you reallllyy do not know what you are talking about. I work at an IP firm, and for Patent prosecution we hire generally hire masters and phds. Some of the older attorneys do not have masters or phds or a science background (if they work solely in litigation) BUT because of the large amount of qualified people with higher degrees in science now that is pretty much all we are currently hiring

Anonymous User
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Re: possibility of patent law with no engineering degree

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 27, 2011 11:47 pm

dcgirl1013 wrote:
deathviaboredom wrote:
Wahoo1L wrote:
deathviaboredom wrote:My dad's an IP/patent litigator.
He was a psych undergrad with a business degree.
He did all his pre-med requirements (physics 1 yr, 2 yrs chem including orgo, 1 years bio, 1 year math) at Columbia


Patent Prosecution =/= Patent Litigation. Anyone can do patent litigation.


He does litigation on both sides. I didn't say defense



Hah! from that comment I would say you reallllyy do not know what you are talking about. I work at an IP firm, and for Patent prosecution we hire generally hire masters and phds. Some of the older attorneys do not have masters or phds or a science background (if they work solely in litigation) BUT because of the large amount of qualified people with higher degrees in science now that is pretty much all we are currently hiring


Bumping this thread because I'm interested in my odds at a primarily IP firm without a science background. T20-25, top 5% (potentially higher, top 10 students after first semester), likely flagship journal, no relevant WE but I've done every IP-related thing I could do as a 1L. Any thoughts?




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