networking

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Anonymous User
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networking

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:34 pm

how far can networking go?
I have always wondered why people claim that knowing partners or being friends with them can get one's foot in the door.
last time i checked, my dream firm in DC has more than 50 partners at that single office. knowing one or two partners does not really help does it? will knowing some senior partners (not someone in their late 30s or early 40s who just got promoted)
make a difference?

gglr24
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Re: networking

Postby gglr24 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:44 pm

It might not be much help in influencing voting by the hiring committee, but knowing any partner could help get you to a call-back interview.

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Re: networking

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:50 pm

I got it.
but it sort of intrigued me what I heard some anecdotes about people knowing some big-name partners and basically 'skipped over' the formal OCI altogether.

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nealric
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Re: networking

Postby nealric » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:02 pm

Some nice networking hardware:

--ImageRemoved--

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nealric
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Re: networking

Postby nealric » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:05 pm


but it sort of intrigued me what I heard some anecdotes about people knowing some big-name partners and basically 'skipped over' the formal OCI altogether.


OK: serious answer.

In biglaw, networking won't do anything for you unless you already meet the hiring criteria (grades + school). If a you meet the hiring criteria, it could get you the callback/offer over someone with no connections. Exception: If you are the son/daughter of a big client they might make an exception (but usually not a huge one).

FrankReynolds
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Re: networking

Postby FrankReynolds » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:48 pm

nealric lives in a fantasy world

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Re: networking

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:41 pm

I know some medianish people at a T30 who graduated without honor of any sort clerked for a state appellate court judge. and she's been working at a vault 20 since then.

I don't think the appellate court clerkship in itself is a huge resume boost...

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nealric
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Re: networking

Postby nealric » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:47 pm

nealric lives in a fantasy world


I'm not just spouting my mouth off here. But believe whatever you want to believe. This is the internet after all. Large firms get a TON of applications from people who know a partner at the firm. If they hired them all, they would have to triple the number of people they hired. If the managing partner throws all his/her political clout behind someone, there could always be an exception. Realistically, it's extremely rare they would do that.

I know some medianish people at a T30 who graduated without honor of any sort clerked for a state appellate court judge. and she's been working at a vault 20 since then.


There are a lot of reasons why that could happen. They could be the child of a big client. They could have handled a lot of cases while a clerk that gave them particular expertise the firm needed. In any event, lateral hiring is a different game from new graduate/summer associate hiring (which was the subject of my post).
Last edited by nealric on Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

smalltown
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Re: networking

Postby smalltown » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:51 pm

It seems networking won't get you to the top firms if you don't have the credentials to back it up. But for those of us who aren't going to be at the top, and don't really care to be, networking can make all the difference. Smaller companies usually like to go with people they know. I'm banking on that, and my good looks. So railed several different ways.

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Re: networking

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:53 pm

I've also known someone from a T30 with medianish grades who summer at nj250 lower-ranking biglaw firms both summers.

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nealric
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Re: networking

Postby nealric » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:54 pm

Smaller companies usually like to go with people they know. I'm banking on that, and my good looks. So railed several different ways.


For sure. My advice applies ONLY to biglaw. Smaller firms /government agencies work much differently.

I've also known someone from a T30 with medianish grades who summer at nj250 lower-ranking biglaw firms both summers.


They were probably within the hiring criteria. Median at T30 used to get lower nlj250.
Last edited by nealric on Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: networking

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:55 pm

well i think if it is a senior partner and a really bigname at the firm and known internationally, then it would make a difference. not just any partner.

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nealric
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Re: networking

Postby nealric » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:58 pm

well i think if it is a senior partner and a really bigname at the firm and known internationally, then it would make a difference. not just any partner.



It's not just who the person is, but what they do for you. If they say: "I want this person, period" it's certainly possible they will dip under their hiring criteria. It's exceedingly rare that this happens. More realistically, if you know a bigwig, they just shoot a friendly email to the hiring partner. If you are within their hiring criteria or close enough, your name probably goes straight into the callback pile.

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Re: networking

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:00 pm

i actually prefer your 'fantasy' world.

what if the big-name partner strongly recommends the student to be hired?

edit: gotya.

rekopter
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Re: networking

Postby rekopter » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:02 pm

nealric and a lot of others are pretty wrong here.

Networking is crucially important. All law students should pick up Kim Walton's "Guerilla Tactics for Finding the Legal Job of your Dreams." It is filled with stories of students who got into their dream jobs through networking--and not just by being the son/daughter of a big client.

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Re: networking

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:33 pm

I struck out at OCI, knew someone who know someone at a firm, eventually got an offer. So yeah, it helps.

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nealric
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Re: networking

Postby nealric » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:35 am

nealric and a lot of others are pretty wrong here.

Networking is crucially important


I don't think we are in as much disagreement as you think we are. I didn't say that networking is unimportant in biglaw. ITE, you need all the help you can get. It's just that it's probably not going to help you if you are significantly outside the grade/school formula for the firm.

It's one thing to be top 40% at a t14 when they are looking for top 1/3. It's quite another to be median at a T3 when they are looking for top 1/3 at a T14.

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Matthies
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Re: networking

Postby Matthies » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:07 pm

nealric wrote:
nealric and a lot of others are pretty wrong here.

Networking is crucially important


I don't think we are in as much disagreement as you think we are. I didn't say that networking is unimportant in biglaw. ITE, you need all the help you can get. It's just that it's probably not going to help you if you are significantly outside the grade/school formula for the firm.

It's one thing to be top 40% at a t14 when they are looking for top 1/3. It's quite another to be median at a T3 when they are looking for top 1/3 at a T14.


Rekopetr knows what he is talking about from a very good personal exeprice, as do I. I got brought into a big firm (as a clerk mind you) by the partner I worked under and he never even asked my grades, or rank or saw my resume. I just tunred in a resume the day I start and filled out the paper work. had an offer to come back there after graduation. Partner was department head, no commitie, said your hired and you work for me. That was it. It was good for him becuase he had worked with me on bar assn projects and had taught me in a class ta school, so he knew I could do the work, and it meant he did not have to get asinged some summer SA he had no say in hiring to work in his department.

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Re: networking

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:37 pm

The head of a consulting firm that I worked with promised to help 'introducing' to some biglaw attorneys. the other day he said a bigname partner at a vault 15 would like to set up a time to talk with me.

dont know what to expect.... i struck out at OCI and did not even interview at this particular firm ... would the partner told me, "oh, keep going ...."

FrankReynolds
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Re: networking

Postby FrankReynolds » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:44 am

so first nealric said "in biglaw, networking won't do anything for you unless you already meet the hiring criteria (grades + school)."

now he backtracks and says "It's just that it's probably not going to help you if you are significantly outside the grade/school formula for the firm."

STICK TO YOU GUNS!

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nealric
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Re: networking

Postby nealric » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:39 am

so first nealric said "in biglaw, networking won't do anything for you unless you already meet the hiring criteria (grades + school)."

now he backtracks and says "It's just that it's probably not going to help you if you are significantly outside the grade/school formula for the firm."


I believe my answer to be consistent. Just countering the straw man arguments. But since you want me to to stick to my guns, here is a picture of an AK-47:

--ImageRemoved--

Anonymous User
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Re: networking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:40 pm

my guess is that it would help (a lot) if your grades are not significantly below their par. If you showed promise in your grades and other EC stuff ...

ughOSU
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Re: networking

Postby ughOSU » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:52 pm

I suppose it isn't impossible to network your way into a good job, but it certainly shouldn't be something you count on. Especially if you're looking to land a high-paying job.

Anonymous User
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Re: networking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:11 pm

I suppose it's not pure networking. the prerequisite is decent grades.

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Re: networking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I struck out at OCI, knew someone who know someone at a firm, eventually got an offer. So yeah, it helps.

Oh yeah, I had good grades.




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