Jobs with the FBI/CIA

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Brawndo
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Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby Brawndo » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:13 pm

Anyone else interested in public service with the FBI, CIA, or some other related agency?

The FBI in particular is interested in people with JDs for both agent and administrative positions, and they have positions across the country in 56 major cities.

I think it would be kickass to be an FBI agent, but first I have to pass 1L, then stay in school, and then pass the physicals... 300 meter sprint in under 50 seconds? Yeah right...

ArmyVet07
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby ArmyVet07 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:18 pm

I knew a couple people who went this route after leaving the military. You should know that the process takes a long time and involves a thorough background check with a polygraph test.

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Brawndo
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby Brawndo » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:22 pm

ArmyVet07 wrote:I knew a couple people who went this route after leaving the military. You should know that the process takes a long time and involves a thorough background check with a polygraph test.


I imagine it does

What's good is that the FBI is also looking for civilians, not just former LEOs and ex-military. Hell, you can have a CPA and never handled a gun in your life and still make it in if you're good enough and pass the background checks

nicdmx
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby nicdmx » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:20 pm

I would stay away from these sorts of federal agencies unless you want to be stuck in a mindless, soul-sucking bureaucracy.

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Cavalier
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby Cavalier » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:23 pm

nicdmx wrote:I would stay away from these sorts of federal agencies unless you want to be stuck in a mindless, soul-sucking bureaucracy.

As opposed to big law?

articulably suspect
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby articulably suspect » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:46 pm

Cavalier wrote:
nicdmx wrote:I would stay away from these sorts of federal agencies unless you want to be stuck in a mindless, soul-sucking bureaucracy.

As opposed to big law?


+1

nicdmx
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby nicdmx » Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:59 am

Cavalier wrote:
nicdmx wrote:I would stay away from these sorts of federal agencies unless you want to be stuck in a mindless, soul-sucking bureaucracy.

As opposed to big law?



Uh, yeah. You think ANYTHING parallels the bureaucracy of the federal government? If you do, then you obviously haven't worked in one of these agencies.

Renzo
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby Renzo » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:31 am

nicdmx wrote:I would stay away from these sorts of federal agencies unless you want to be stuck in a mindless, soul-sucking bureaucracy.

Um, whatever you think being an FBI agent is like, but it isn't like that. Every agent I've ever met (and that's a few) thought it was the best, most interesting, and most rewarding job on the planet.

Amelie
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby Amelie » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:54 am

For the FBI, make sure you haven't partaken in any illegal activities/substances for at least 5 years before you plan to apply... I know at least 1 person who has interviewed who was given a lie detector test.

And I've heard that you have to be recruited for the CIA? Not sure if it's true, but would make sense.

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bullfighter
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby bullfighter » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:06 pm

.
Last edited by bullfighter on Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

HerseyChris
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby HerseyChris » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:19 pm

Brawndo wrote:
ArmyVet07 wrote:I knew a couple people who went this route after leaving the military. You should know that the process takes a long time and involves a thorough background check with a polygraph test.


I imagine it does

What's good is that the FBI is also looking for civilians, not just former LEOs and ex-military. Hell, you can have a CPA and never handled a gun in your life and still make it in if you're good enough and pass the background checks



Woah woah woah, there's nothing wrong with being a CPA who's never handled a gun (that's me except once when I went to a gun range and missed the target every time, unless you count Counter Strike and Halo 2 as gun experience). As for the physical, it looked pretty damn easy to me. 300 meter 'sprint' in 50 seconds is a pace I can hold for an entire mile, and I'm not even a good athlete. Just jog a bit every other day and do some strides in the middle of the jogs. Or play full court basketball. The WR for 400 meters is something like 41 seconds so, put 300 meters in 50 seconds into perspective. And actually to get the full 10 points it would be 300 meters in 40.9 seconds (unless you're a female). http://www.fbijobs.gov/11131.asp

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RVP11
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby RVP11 » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:23 pm

A lot of good athletes, myself included, might have trouble with the pushup requirement. But yeah the running is easy.

nicdmx
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby nicdmx » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:41 pm

Renzo wrote:
nicdmx wrote:I would stay away from these sorts of federal agencies unless you want to be stuck in a mindless, soul-sucking bureaucracy.

Um, whatever you think being an FBI agent is like, but it isn't like that. Every agent I've ever met (and that's a few) thought it was the best, most interesting, and most rewarding job on the planet.


That may be true. But why do you think Law School will help you become an FBI agent? If you want to be an agent, Law School seems like a huge waste of money.

I am mostly referring to the CIA when I speak of mindless, soul sucking bureaucracy. An agent job could be cool, but again, why law school?

HerseyChris
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby HerseyChris » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:47 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:A lot of good athletes, myself included, might have trouble with the pushup requirement. But yeah the running is easy.



It depends on how harshly they judge pushups. If you can do the real fast ones or have sloppy form, I can probably do 100. If you make me take a second per pushup and have perfect form, obviously that number falls way down. Which is kind of why I don't like pushups or situps, there's a bit too much judgment involved.

Anonymous User
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:06 pm

nicdmx wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
nicdmx wrote:I would stay away from these sorts of federal agencies unless you want to be stuck in a mindless, soul-sucking bureaucracy.

As opposed to big law?



Uh, yeah. You think ANYTHING parallels the bureaucracy of the federal government? If you do, then you obviously haven't worked in one of these agencies.


Having worked in intelligence, I can tell you there is a difference between the bureaucracy encountered by management types and the actual work preformed by people in the Operational side.

Being an FBI SA or working as a NCS Case Officer may have more politics than the average job, but it is NOT something you deal with on a normal basis.

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Vendetta
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby Vendetta » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:10 pm

You would think the FBI would probably judge pushups harshly, but that's just my opinion. I did have a friend who did the physical examinations for the various military academies (ended up doing Air Force), who said they were pretty strict about full sit ups/pull ups/ just in general good form. Not the same thing, I know, but maybe worth the comparison.

On a slightly different note, anyone feel these tests are skewed towards skinny people? I would consider myself able to score in the 7-10 range on all of these, but I only weigh ~140 pounds. I don't know exactly what FBI agents do, and the website is pretty vague about it, but I still feel it's kind of strange that the only real strength test is push ups. Then again, I guess they know the demands of their own jobs better than I do. Just thinking out loud.

Anonymous User
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:10 pm

maggiebre wrote:And I've heard that you have to be recruited for the CIA? Not sure if it's true, but would make sense.


You can apply for any position with the CIA via their careers site. You don't have to be "recruited" for NCS positions, you can apply to the online site, then they will conduct a pre screen interview, and if they like your credentials they will then set you up for the full screening process.

Bear in mine this can literally take a year, and the process can be terminated at any moment, so it is generally a good idea to have a back up plan.

*NCS is the National Clandestine Service

linquest
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby linquest » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:26 pm

nicdmx wrote:
Renzo wrote:
nicdmx wrote:I would stay away from these sorts of federal agencies unless you want to be stuck in a mindless, soul-sucking bureaucracy.

That may be true. But why do you think Law School will help you become an FBI agent? If you want to be an agent, Law School seems like a huge waste of money.

I am mostly referring to the CIA when I speak of mindless, soul sucking bureaucracy. An agent job could be cool, but again, why law school?


Because aside from ex-military/LEOs, the FBI hires mostly lawyers and CPAs. Why a LAW enforcement agency, especially one whose primary duties include search and seizure, is going to prefer LAW school graduates is pretty obvious.

I'm currently a federal attorney (not with FBI/CIA) who has worked for two firms and two federal agencies. None of the bureaucratic BS I have to deal with anywhere approaches the burden of having to bill in 6, 10, or 15 minute increments. Many of my friends sold their souls for money at firms, but I get to do exactly the kind of work that I enjoy and believe in, and still get to leave at 4:30 most days :wink:

nicdmx
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby nicdmx » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
nicdmx wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
nicdmx wrote:I would stay away from these sorts of federal agencies unless you want to be stuck in a mindless, soul-sucking bureaucracy.

As opposed to big law?



Uh, yeah. You think ANYTHING parallels the bureaucracy of the federal government? If you do, then you obviously haven't worked in one of these agencies.


Having worked in intelligence, I can tell you there is a difference between the bureaucracy encountered by management types and the actual work preformed by people in the Operational side.

Being an FBI SA or working as a NCS Case Officer may have more politics than the average job, but it is NOT something you deal with on a normal basis.


I agree the key is to be on the operational side. Good like maintaining that sort of job above a GS-11 though.

nicdmx
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby nicdmx » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:48 pm

linquest wrote:
nicdmx wrote:
Renzo wrote:
nicdmx wrote:I would stay away from these sorts of federal agencies unless you want to be stuck in a mindless, soul-sucking bureaucracy.

That may be true. But why do you think Law School will help you become an FBI agent? If you want to be an agent, Law School seems like a huge waste of money.

I am mostly referring to the CIA when I speak of mindless, soul sucking bureaucracy. An agent job could be cool, but again, why law school?


Because aside from ex-military/LEOs, the FBI hires mostly lawyers and CPAs. Why a LAW enforcement agency, especially one whose primary duties include search and seizure, is going to prefer LAW school graduates is pretty obvious.

I'm currently a federal attorney (not with FBI/CIA) who has worked for two firms and two federal agencies. None of the bureaucratic BS I have to deal with anywhere approaches the burden of having to bill in 6, 10, or 15 minute increments. Many of my friends sold their souls for money at firms, but I get to do exactly the kind of work that I enjoy and believe in, and still get to leave at 4:30 most days :wink:



The nature of bureaucracy has little to do with how you charge your time. It has to do with the organization makeup of dysfunctional agencies that can seemingly accomplish little beyond the maintaining their own dysfunction

Anonymous User
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:51 pm

nicdmx wrote:I agree the key is to be on the operational side. Good like maintaining that sort of job above a GS-11 though.


Very true. But who wants to be a supervisor anyways. :) Just max out your steps and then transfer to civilian employment with either a PMC (Private Military Company) or writing books on your experiences.

But again if you want to go into the NCS, a law degree is useless. You would be better off getting a hard/physical science degree instead.

Law degree is useful for FBI SA though as it is one of the few entry paths into the FBI. If you don't have critical language, technical background, accounting background or a crap load of work experience, JD may be some people's only way into the program.

Oban
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby Oban » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:02 pm

I've heard the CIA/NSA/FBA are laxing the drug requirements due the high number of highly qualified candidates they have to turn down because of smoking pot or snorting coke in school.

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GeePee
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby GeePee » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:25 pm

Vendetta wrote:You would think the FBI would probably judge pushups harshly, but that's just my opinion. I did have a friend who did the physical examinations for the various military academies (ended up doing Air Force), who said they were pretty strict about full sit ups/pull ups/ just in general good form. Not the same thing, I know, but maybe worth the comparison.

On a slightly different note, anyone feel these tests are skewed towards skinny people? I would consider myself able to score in the 7-10 range on all of these, but I only weigh ~140 pounds. I don't know exactly what FBI agents do, and the website is pretty vague about it, but I still feel it's kind of strange that the only real strength test is push ups. Then again, I guess they know the demands of their own jobs better than I do. Just thinking out loud.

I don't know; once you get up to the high point values it gets pretty tough. 71 good form push-ups is a fucking ton, but on the other hand running a mile and a half in 9 minutes is not hard at all. Although there is only 1 "strength" test, it is definitely the hardest one to accumulate points in.

articulably suspect
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby articulably suspect » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:55 pm

maggiebre wrote:For the FBI, make sure you haven't partaken in any illegal activities/substances for at least 5 years before you plan to apply... I know at least 1 person who has interviewed who was given a lie detector test.

And I've heard that you have to be recruited for the CIA? Not sure if it's true, but would make sense.


Try in your life time. Although if you smoked pot twice in hs, they won't care much about that. I think pretty much any criminal history/significant hard drug use that can be corroborated would be a big deal, if not an automatic disqualification. Anyway, I heard they want your drug history from the past ten years, my gf applied for FBI a couple of years ago and she told me this anyway.

articulably suspect
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Re: Jobs with the FBI/CIA

Postby articulably suspect » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:18 pm

linquest wrote:
nicdmx wrote:
Renzo wrote:
nicdmx wrote:I would stay away from these sorts of federal agencies unless you want to be stuck in a mindless, soul-sucking bureaucracy.

That may be true. But why do you think Law School will help you become an FBI agent? If you want to be an agent, Law School seems like a huge waste of money.

I am mostly referring to the CIA when I speak of mindless, soul sucking bureaucracy. An agent job could be cool, but again, why law school?


Because aside from ex-military/LEOs, the FBI hires mostly lawyers and CPAs. Why a LAW enforcement agency, especially one whose primary duties include search and seizure, is going to prefer LAW school graduates is pretty obvious.

I'm currently a federal attorney (not with FBI/CIA) who has worked for two firms and two federal agencies. None of the bureaucratic BS I have to deal with anywhere approaches the burden of having to bill in 6, 10, or 15 minute increments. Many of my friends sold their souls for money at firms, but I get to do exactly the kind of work that I enjoy and believe in, and still get to leave at 4:30 most days :wink:


+1, this is what I've always heard. Most of these agencies prefer JDs, CPAs, computer science backgrounds and individuals that have critical language skills. Here's a link that might be helpful http://www.fbijobs.gov/1112.asp.

Also, most of the people that work in LE(on every level) believe what they're doing has purpose, makes a difference, the world is left a better place, etc. Not saying I agree with what the various agencies do, their tactics, or that they do make a difference, but I think most of those people, at least the ones I know, enjoy what they do and believe this on some level. I don't know if this is the consensus, but it just seems like a lot of people in Biglaw aren't extremely excited about what they do and if it weren't for the money, probably wouldn't be there. I just know could never do it for a number of reasons.




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