ITE, Size Matters

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im_blue
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby im_blue » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:07 pm

rayiner wrote:Let's do this data in a better way.

The top 10 markets:

Code: Select all

City   Attorneys   Change   Change (%)
NYC    27374     -2037      -7
CHI    18433     -873       -5
DC     12108     -162       -1
PHIL   7000      -413       -6
BST    4826      -104       -2
LA     4432      -106       -2
ATL    4150      -234       -6
SF     3747      -22        -1
HST    3080      -176       -6
DAL    2551      -161       -6


I'm surprised to see 1-2% decreases in CA. I thought their economy dropped off a cliff, and so did OCI at Berkeley/UCLA. CA firms also tend to look for local ties, so it would seem at first glance that hiring for those grads wouldn't be in as bad shape as the rest of the country. Am I missing something here?

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underdawg
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby underdawg » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:58 pm

im_blue wrote:
rayiner wrote:Let's do this data in a better way.

The top 10 markets:

Code: Select all

City   Attorneys   Change   Change (%)
NYC    27374     -2037      -7
CHI    18433     -873       -5
DC     12108     -162       -1
PHIL   7000      -413       -6
BST    4826      -104       -2
LA     4432      -106       -2
ATL    4150      -234       -6
SF     3747      -22        -1
HST    3080      -176       -6
DAL    2551      -161       -6


I'm surprised to see 1-2% decreases in CA. I thought their economy dropped off a cliff, and so did OCI at Berkeley/UCLA. CA firms also tend to look for local ties, so it would seem at first glance that hiring for those grads wouldn't be in as bad shape as the rest of the country. Am I missing something here?

well i'm sure firms would rather cut summer class hiring than lay people off maybe? so there could be a 1% layoff but a 60% decrease in hiring...

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RVP11
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby RVP11 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:01 am

im_blue wrote:
rayiner wrote:Let's do this data in a better way.

The top 10 markets:

Code: Select all

City   Attorneys   Change   Change (%)
NYC    27374     -2037      -7
CHI    18433     -873       -5
DC     12108     -162       -1
PHIL   7000      -413       -6
BST    4826      -104       -2
LA     4432      -106       -2
ATL    4150      -234       -6
SF     3747      -22        -1
HST    3080      -176       -6
DAL    2551      -161       -6


I'm surprised to see 1-2% decreases in CA. I thought their economy dropped off a cliff, and so did OCI at Berkeley/UCLA. CA firms also tend to look for local ties, so it would seem at first glance that hiring for those grads wouldn't be in as bad shape as the rest of the country. Am I missing something here?


FWIW, the two people I know at UVA who placed a lot of their OGI bids on CA firms were very happy with their decision. Those who bid on DC weren't as thrilled, apparently, to put it mildly. And the DC people had equal or better grades, to my knowledge.

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underdawg
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby underdawg » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:03 am

i hear different about ca but with anecdotal evidence, i'm sure we could find the answer

also i'm sure the chart doesn't account for deferrals and what not too. between deferrals, no-offering, reducing summer classes, cold-offering, laying off is really the last resort!!

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rayiner
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby rayiner » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:37 am

Remember, this is just NLJ250 data, and organized by where the firm is *headquartered*. So layoffs at a CA office in an NY firm are counted against NY's column. This is important because a lot of the biglaw firms in CA are not NLJ250, and the ones that are often are not headquartered there.

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dresden doll
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby dresden doll » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:38 am

rayiner wrote:Remember, this is just NLJ250 data, and organized by where the firm is *headquartered*. So layoffs at a CA office in an NY firm are counted against NY's column. This is important because a lot of the biglaw firms in CA are not NLJ250, and the ones that are often are not headquartered there.


^This.

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CE2JD
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby CE2JD » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:39 am

underdawg wrote:i hear different about ca but with anecdotal evidence, i'm sure we could find the answer

also i'm sure the chart doesn't account for deferrals and what not too. between deferrals, no-offering, reducing summer classes, cold-offering, laying off is really the last resort!!


or maybe people in california just think that all new yorkers are fucking douche bags (assuming most of your evidence comes from NYU-related experiences)

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dresden doll
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby dresden doll » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:41 am

You know, I clicked on this thread expecting a nice penis joke. OP depressed me a little.

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rayiner
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby rayiner » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:54 am

dresden doll wrote:You know, I clicked on this thread expecting a nice penis.

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rondemarino
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby rondemarino » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:54 am

rayiner wrote:Remember, this is just NLJ250 data, and organized by where the firm is *headquartered*. So layoffs at a CA office in an NY firm are counted against NY's column. This is important because a lot of the biglaw firms in CA are not NLJ250, and the ones that are often are not headquartered there.


+1.

CA's legal market is a little weird. Few things to consider (and I'm not sure how they fit together)

(1) CA has A LOT of boutique firms that pay at the $160k scale.

(2) Heller and Thelen imploded. Lots of CA attorneys were absorbed into other firms in the last couple of years.

(3) Dotcom bust KILLED the CA legal market. Remember Brobeck? The clowns who mused about going public and bought national airtime on CNN? Its possible CA is still recovering from that mess.

(4) A lot of east coast firms started offices in SoCal over the last 4-5 years, but the increase in work they were expecting from biotech work never materialized.

If anyone knows why (or if) OCI was really bad at Boalt and UCLA, I'd love to know too.

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rondemarino
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby rondemarino » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:56 am

dresden doll wrote:You know, I clicked on this thread expecting a nice penis joke. OP depressed me a little.


(link)

Hope that helps. :D

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dresden doll
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby dresden doll » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:23 am

rondemarino wrote:
dresden doll wrote:You know, I clicked on this thread expecting a nice penis joke. OP depressed me a little.


(link)

Hope that helps. :D


<3

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pany1985
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby pany1985 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:22 am

Philly is that high up on the list of legal markets?

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RVP11
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby RVP11 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:44 am

pany1985 wrote:Philly is that high up on the list of legal markets?


As explained above, it's based on the HQ of firms, not the actual # of BigLaw attorneys in each city?

ziggysmarley
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby ziggysmarley » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:32 pm

rondemarino wrote: If anyone knows why (or if) OCI was really bad at Boalt and UCLA, I'd love to know too.


I didn't think OCI was bad at UCLA, at least considering the economy. I got a ton of callbacks and multiple offers, and I know a good amount of students in the same boat. It wasn't as easy as prior years to get a job, but I don't think anyone expected it to be...

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pany1985
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby pany1985 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:51 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
pany1985 wrote:Philly is that high up on the list of legal markets?


As explained above, it's based on the HQ of firms, not the actual # of BigLaw attorneys in each city?


Yeah, I got that, but even with that being the criteria for ranking I'm surprised it's got more than Boston and L.A.

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underdawg
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby underdawg » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:28 pm

CE2JD wrote:
underdawg wrote:i hear different about ca but with anecdotal evidence, i'm sure we could find the answer

also i'm sure the chart doesn't account for deferrals and what not too. between deferrals, no-offering, reducing summer classes, cold-offering, laying off is really the last resort!!


or maybe people in california just think that all new yorkers are fucking douche bags (assuming most of your evidence comes from NYU-related experiences)

oh rite, everyone at nyu is from nyc

or is the nyc taint so bad it won't even wash off a CAer??!

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im_blue
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby im_blue » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:59 pm

ziggysmarley wrote:
rondemarino wrote: If anyone knows why (or if) OCI was really bad at Boalt and UCLA, I'd love to know too.


I didn't think OCI was bad at UCLA, at least considering the economy. I got a ton of callbacks and multiple offers, and I know a good amount of students in the same boat. It wasn't as easy as prior years to get a job, but I don't think anyone expected it to be...


What's your estimate of the class rank cutoff for offers, both now and in prior years?

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CE2JD
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby CE2JD » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:25 pm

underdawg wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
underdawg wrote:i hear different about ca but with anecdotal evidence, i'm sure we could find the answer

also i'm sure the chart doesn't account for deferrals and what not too. between deferrals, no-offering, reducing summer classes, cold-offering, laying off is really the last resort!!


or maybe people in california just think that all new yorkers are fucking douche bags (assuming most of your evidence comes from NYU-related experiences)

oh rite, everyone at nyu is from nyc

or is the nyc taint so bad it won't even wash off a CAer??!


The taint of having "New York" in the name of your law school has doomed your hopes forever on the West Coast.

ziggysmarley
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby ziggysmarley » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:14 am

im_blue wrote:
ziggysmarley wrote:
rondemarino wrote: If anyone knows why (or if) OCI was really bad at Boalt and UCLA, I'd love to know too.


I didn't think OCI was bad at UCLA, at least considering the economy. I got a ton of callbacks and multiple offers, and I know a good amount of students in the same boat. It wasn't as easy as prior years to get a job, but I don't think anyone expected it to be...


What's your estimate of the class rank cutoff for offers, both now and in prior years?


To be honest, I have no idea. UCLA doesn't give out rankings, so everything is a guess... all you really know is the curve (3.2 is supposed to be median) and the GPA suggested cut-offs listed by the firms (most were 3.3). I have to imagine that you had to be above median to get an offer this year at pretty much all schools.

FrankReynolds
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby FrankReynolds » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:03 am

I have to imagine that you had to be above median to get an offer this year at pretty much all schools.


IMO median didn't have much to do with results
top 1/3 had it pretty well
middle 2/3s were all roughly in the same boat
bottom 1/3 pretty screwed

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James Bond
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Re: ITE, Size Matters

Postby James Bond » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:06 am

CE2JD wrote:My theory about the complete idiocy of accepting a firm job in NYC is confirmed.


TITCR




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