Give up on firms?

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Anonymous User
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Give up on firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:07 pm

I'm a 2L in the top 40% at a t-14. I struck out at OCI - 2 callbacks, no offers. I've applied on my own to firms in two big markets and several small or medium-sized markets (including my hometown), but have not gotten any bites. The career services people say that I perform well in mock interviews, but believe the issue may be that firms can somehow tell from my resume and/or my in-person demeanor that I'm not "law firm material," and they recommend I give up on firms for this year and concentrate on other kinds of summer work. It's not the absolute end of the world if I can't get a firm job, but I'd like to make some money to reduce my debt load.

So: do I listen to career services? Is it time to give up on firms for my 2L summer? Or is it worth sending out more resumes and trying markets that aren't the ones I'd most want on the chance one might still want me in November?

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kittenmittons
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 2L in the top 40% at a t-14. I struck out at OCI - 2 callbacks, no offers. I've applied on my own to firms in two big markets and several small or medium-sized markets (including my hometown), but have not gotten any bites. The career services people say that I perform well in mock interviews, but believe the issue may be that firms can somehow tell from my resume and/or my in-person demeanor that I'm not "law firm material," and they recommend I give up on firms for this year and concentrate on other kinds of summer work. It's not the absolute end of the world if I can't get a firm job, but I'd like to make some money to reduce my debt load.

So: do I listen to career services? Is it time to give up on firms for my 2L summer? Or is it worth sending out more resumes and trying markets that aren't the ones I'd most want on the chance one might still want me in November?


Did they tell you why firms might come to this conclusion?

Anonymous User
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:11 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 2L in the top 40% at a t-14. I struck out at OCI - 2 callbacks, no offers. I've applied on my own to firms in two big markets and several small or medium-sized markets (including my hometown), but have not gotten any bites. The career services people say that I perform well in mock interviews, but believe the issue may be that firms can somehow tell from my resume and/or my in-person demeanor that I'm not "law firm material," and they recommend I give up on firms for this year and concentrate on other kinds of summer work. It's not the absolute end of the world if I can't get a firm job, but I'd like to make some money to reduce my debt load.

So: do I listen to career services? Is it time to give up on firms for my 2L summer? Or is it worth sending out more resumes and trying markets that aren't the ones I'd most want on the chance one might still want me in November?

Did they tell you why firms might come to this conclusion?

They said that it's hard to tell what firms are looking for right now, but that I might just not be it. They don't know why, specifically.

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kittenmittons
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 2L in the top 40% at a t-14. I struck out at OCI - 2 callbacks, no offers. I've applied on my own to firms in two big markets and several small or medium-sized markets (including my hometown), but have not gotten any bites. The career services people say that I perform well in mock interviews, but believe the issue may be that firms can somehow tell from my resume and/or my in-person demeanor that I'm not "law firm material," and they recommend I give up on firms for this year and concentrate on other kinds of summer work. It's not the absolute end of the world if I can't get a firm job, but I'd like to make some money to reduce my debt load.

So: do I listen to career services? Is it time to give up on firms for my 2L summer? Or is it worth sending out more resumes and trying markets that aren't the ones I'd most want on the chance one might still want me in November?

Did they tell you why firms might come to this conclusion?

They said that it's hard to tell what firms are looking for right now, but that I might just not be it. They don't know why, specifically.


Firms are probably being more picky re: personality this hiring cycle. Are you boring?

Anonymous User
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:23 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 2L in the top 40% at a t-14. I struck out at OCI - 2 callbacks, no offers. I've applied on my own to firms in two big markets and several small or medium-sized markets (including my hometown), but have not gotten any bites. The career services people say that I perform well in mock interviews, but believe the issue may be that firms can somehow tell from my resume and/or my in-person demeanor that I'm not "law firm material," and they recommend I give up on firms for this year and concentrate on other kinds of summer work. It's not the absolute end of the world if I can't get a firm job, but I'd like to make some money to reduce my debt load.

So: do I listen to career services? Is it time to give up on firms for my 2L summer? Or is it worth sending out more resumes and trying markets that aren't the ones I'd most want on the chance one might still want me in November?

Did they tell you why firms might come to this conclusion?

They said that it's hard to tell what firms are looking for right now, but that I might just not be it. They don't know why, specifically.

Firms are probably being more picky re: personality this hiring cycle. Are you boring?

I try to be as neutrally friendly as possible in interviews. My resume has some somewhat unusual stuff on it, so I don't think I'm a boring applicant, but I might be boring in the actual interviews.

VWRescue
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby VWRescue » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:27 pm

have you been applying to other jobs? I wouldn't say you should "give up" on firms, but you should definitely be on top of your government/public interest/in-house etc. apps in addition to mailing firms. You don't want to wait too long and then be stuck without a back-up plan.

jh60405
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby jh60405 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:32 pm

Are you interested in working for a firm long-term. Maybe you're really interested in public interest work and you just want to make some money at a firm for a summer? Maybe there really is something about you or your resume that gives it away? Maybe you could temporarily alter your resume to help yourself out? Just thoughts . . .

Anonymous Loser
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby Anonymous Loser » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:48 pm

Altering your resume at this point is unlikely to make any difference: many firms have finalized their 2L hiring decisions for next summer, and most have probably long since completed interviewing. For that matter, you are already a bit late for many government positions as well.

Oblomov
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby Oblomov » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:22 pm

You're almost certainly screwed for firms for this summer and, to be honest, you're probably screwed out of big law permanently. Problem is, career services don't want to tell people this sort of thing so they feed us all milksop which, in fact, prevents students from making the decisions that would be best for them.

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NayBoer
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby NayBoer » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:43 pm

Wow, what incredibly horrible advice. "You interview well but something dooms you to failure."

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rondemarino
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby rondemarino » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:45 pm

OP: Since you're anonymous, can you tell us which T-14?

legends159
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby legends159 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:46 pm

OCS's one job it ensure that they have high percentage of ppl get jobs within 9 months of graduation b/c that's what USNWR cares about. It doesn't matter what job, as long as it's A job.

Thus them telling you to give up on biglaw is a way to ensure that you are employed with A job. Maybe not THE job that you want but A job.

Anonymous User
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:36 pm

fwiw, I got a callback a few weeks ago that turned into an offer. I know a few others at T14s who have also gotten calls to come in and interview within the past few weeks (with large NY firms). I would keep applying if I were you. Send your resume, follow up, etc.

edit: Of course, see if you can resolve the issue somehow with future applications, and still apply to other things too.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:03 am

legends159 wrote:OCS's one job it ensure that they have high percentage of ppl get jobs within 9 months of graduation b/c that's what USNWR cares about. It doesn't matter what job, as long as it's A job.

Thus them telling you to give up on biglaw is a way to ensure that you are employed with A job. Maybe not THE job that you want but A job.


That statistic is so ridiculous. If 1% of the class works as an attorney and the other 99% work in fast food, retail, or lawn care, then USNWR reports 100% of people finding jobs within 9 months of graduation. It's almost impressive that number isn't really high for all school because 9 months is a long time to sit around and not work post graduation (particularly when you figure in the fact that you have to pay back student loans). But I guess backside of that is that if all 100% report their employment situation, the school will have a really low median salary.

legends159
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby legends159 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:16 am

does USNWR report median salaries though?

If not a school can just report 100% to USNWR and then select to report only 30% of students on their own websites in regards to median salaries.

Anonymous User
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:43 am

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

As to the possibility that I'm too "public interest-y" to interest firms, it's possible but unlikely. I did public interest my 1L summer, but not before I came to law school, so my 1L job is the only public interest on my resume. While I'm not dead set on big firm work, I would like to try it out, and I'm open to working big firm long term if I like it.

I started applying to public interest and government jobs about a month ago (and will continue applying to them), so hopefully one of those will pan out. Unfortunately it seems like most PI organizations don't do their hiring until spring, so I may have a very long wait until I know if I have a 2L job or not.

Ultimately, I think I'm going to keep applying to firms that I hear - either through career services or from friends - are still looking for resumes, but give up apart from that. While the other Anonymous User recently got a callback (which is awesome), I'm just not willing to do the mass mailings anymore this close to finals, especially for a substantially reduced chance of a hit.

As far as fixing the "problem" with my apps, I'm not really sure what I can do. I've had career services look at everything in my application package: resume, cover letters, interview style, even the order my classes are listed on my transcript. They've okayed everything, so I figure that if there is really a problem, it's something about my experience or lack of experience that I can't change at this point. Honestly, though, I think there is a very real chance that I don't actually have a particular "problem," but have just had bad luck ITE.

So, again, thanks for the advice everyone. I think it's time to mentally move on from biglaw, though.

PS: rondemario, I'm PMing you my school.

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legalese_retard
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby legalese_retard » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:54 am

Doesn't your school have Spring OCI? While most big law firms have already solidified their summer class, some firms wanted to wait and see what the economy was going to do before they made a decision. Apparently, Orrick was one of those firms: --LinkRemoved--

I'm sure there are others out there (I think Baker McKenzie is still looking too).

Anonymous User
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:53 pm

I have friends at my T14 who have recently (this week) gotten offers from several vault 100 firms, some midlaw firms are still hiring as well. Don't give up hope. As noted by others, your OCS obviously has the student body's best interests in mind, but individually you are almost working against OCS at this point since you are threatening to mess up their stats. On an individual basis they just want to get you employed, doesn't matter if it is at a place you are happy or even doing what you want to do, so do not take their advice like it is the be all end all of career counseling.

Also, if you are interviewing terribly the OCS person is not going to say something to you like, "you're aspie as fuck, just be normal" because they know it is probably not your fault and there is nothing you can really do about it. Do you smell? Do you find yourself rambling on about topics that only interest you? Do you tend to make awkward statements or overshare? Do you research employers and have actual questions for them beyond just, "tell me about your summer program?" Do you dress normally? All things to consider, few of which OCS would bother pointing out to you since it would be too much work for them to sit down and train you to fix it or they simply don't even pick up on it due to their overall inattention.

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underdawg
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby underdawg » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:15 pm

there could be various OCS counselors who have reps for being hardasses. while bad for the ego, maybe you can seek them out? more chance of them being straight with you...

Anonymous User
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:23 pm

Update: Interviews are pouring in from public interest organizations. Apparently, career services was right; it's not that I'm unemployable, it's just that I'm not "law firm material."

Renzo
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby Renzo » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Update: Interviews are pouring in from public interest organizations. Apparently, career services was right; it's not that I'm unemployable, it's just that I'm not "law firm material."

I'm glad you're getting offers, and it also warms my heart that your OCS was right. I'm a skeptic by nature, so it helps me to trust what the OCS people say.

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kittenmittons
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby kittenmittons » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:28 pm

Renzo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Update: Interviews are pouring in from public interest organizations. Apparently, career services was right; it's not that I'm unemployable, it's just that I'm not "law firm material."

I'm glad you're getting offers, and it also warms my heart that your OCS was right. I'm a skeptic by nature, so it helps me to trust what the OCS people say.


+1

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Lincoln
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Re: Give up on firms?

Postby Lincoln » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Update: Interviews are pouring in from public interest organizations. Apparently, career services was right; it's not that I'm unemployable, it's just that I'm not "law firm material."


Good for you! For those of us interested in PI, maybe you can give us a tip on how to seem like we're not "law firm material"? :)




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