Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

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PopCopyManager
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Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby PopCopyManager » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:57 am

Hey guys,

I am interested in working (possibly BigLaw) in one of the southern states I mentioned. I know there are decently placing schools in Florida (UF), but I have heard that T14 is the way to go if you can get in even over the state schools. I have already been accepted to UVA, Georgetown, and UTexas, and have applications pretty much all the way up the board. If I don't get into HYS, what is the best T14 school for placement down south? I guessed UVA but based on what they sent me it actually doesn't seem that way.

PS I am also possibly interested in working in Hawaii.

Thanks for any insight!

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missvik218
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby missvik218 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:13 am

I really don't know but my guess would be this: HYS > UVA & Duke > Vanderbilt & Emory > each dominant state school in its own state. UNC in NC & SC, UGA in GA, UF in FL, Bama in AL, MS and LA. There are people who should be able to link you to specific employment statistics, this is just my understanding of the situation, could be way off.

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thinkbig
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby thinkbig » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:15 am

Duke.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:21 am

UVA.

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PopCopyManager
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby PopCopyManager » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:22 am

thinkbig wrote:Duke.



It seems like alot of folks say this, but according to the Duke website, a very small percentage of applicants work in the south. I am not sure if that is more self selection, or if that is based on opportunities... Nevertheless, I definitely have an application in there.

I specifically would like Florida or Hawaii if possible, and I don't need to make 160k by any means.. However, I've heard Hawaii can be pretty rough regardless.

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missvik218
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby missvik218 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:25 am

PopCopyManager wrote:
thinkbig wrote:Duke.

It seems like alot of folks say this, but according to the Duke website, a very small percentage of applicants work in the south. I am not sure if that is more self selection, or if that is based on opportunities... Nevertheless, I definitely have an application in there.

I specifically would like Florida or Hawaii if possible, and I don't need to make 160k by any means.. However, I've heard Hawaii can be pretty rough regardless.

I would make a very large bet that Duke's placement in the South is mostly due to self selection, if they wanted to stay the could. However, I don't really think of FL as being part of "The South" ...

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The Zeppelin
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby The Zeppelin » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:29 am

missvik218 wrote:I would make a very large bet that Duke's placement in the South is mostly due to self selection, if they wanted to stay the could. However, I don't really think of FL as being part of "The South" ...

It's not.

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PopCopyManager
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby PopCopyManager » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:34 am

The Zeppelin wrote:
missvik218 wrote:I would make a very large bet that Duke's placement in the South is mostly due to self selection, if they wanted to stay the could. However, I don't really think of FL as being part of "The South" ...

It's not.


Hmm, I just double-checked Duke's website, I guess Florida would probably be considered "South Atlantic." Do you think Duke would be better than say NYU or Columbia? Thanks again for all of your insight

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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby DerrickRose » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:08 pm

If you know you want Florida and can get into Columbia, go to Emory for free and PROFIT.

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PopCopyManager
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby PopCopyManager » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:21 pm

DerrickRose wrote:If you know you want Florida and can get into Columbia, go to Emory for free and PROFIT.


Thanks for the advice - there are 2 things that worry me about Emory though - 1, 89% employed within 9 months? Thats kinda scary. 2 - I would like to eventually teach at either an undergraduate university, or perhaps law school, and I don't know if Emory's name is prestigious enough to make that happen.

Sorry for not mentioning that in my original post.

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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby najumobi » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:49 pm

PopCopyManager wrote:Hey guys,

I am interested in working (possibly BigLaw) in one of the southern states I mentioned. I know there are decently placing schools in Florida (UF), but I have heard that T14 is the way to go if you can get in even over the state schools. I have already been accepted to UVA, Georgetown, and UTexas, and have applications pretty much all the way up the board. If I don't get into HYS, what is the best T14 school for placement down south? I guessed UVA but based on what they sent me it actually doesn't seem that way.

PS I am also possibly interested in working in Hawaii.

Thanks for any insight!

according to martindale,
aside from VA/MD/DC where a much greater percentage of UVA's graduates are compared to Duke's, there is a greater percentage of duke's graduates in states like florida (7%v3%), georgia (6%v4%), and texas (4%v3%). if however, your notion of the south includes VA/MD/DC, UVA would be your best bet. 43% of UVA's grads are in VA/MD/DC/NC while only 27% for duke's.

EDIT: woops didn't see the "South (FL,NC,SC,TX)" ...i say you're more likely to end up at these locations if you went to duke.
Last edited by najumobi on Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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thinkbig
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby thinkbig » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:50 pm

PopCopyManager wrote:
DerrickRose wrote:If you know you want Florida and can get into Columbia, go to Emory for free and PROFIT.


Thanks for the advice - there are 2 things that worry me about Emory though - 1, 89% employed within 9 months? Thats kinda scary. 2 - I would like to eventually teach at either an undergraduate university, or perhaps law school, and I don't know if Emory's name is prestigious enough to make that happen.

Sorry for not mentioning that in my original post.


With this new piece of information, I would suggest going with Columbia if that's an option for you. I'm a Chicago guy and would take UChicago over Columbia for academic career, but that's just me.

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missvik218
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby missvik218 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:00 pm

thinkbig wrote:
PopCopyManager wrote:Thanks for the advice - there are 2 things that worry me about Emory though - 1, 89% employed within 9 months? Thats kinda scary. 2 - I would like to eventually teach at either an undergraduate university, or perhaps law school, and I don't know if Emory's name is prestigious enough to make that happen.

Sorry for not mentioning that in my original post.

With this new piece of information, I would suggest going with Columbia if that's an option for you. I'm a Chicago guy and would take UChicago over Columbia for academic career, but that's just me.

Agreed 100% .. you left that out, if you want to teach eventually I would suggest the most prestigious school you can get into.

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PopCopyManager
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby PopCopyManager » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:09 pm

missvik218 wrote:
thinkbig wrote:
PopCopyManager wrote:Thanks for the advice - there are 2 things that worry me about Emory though - 1, 89% employed within 9 months? Thats kinda scary. 2 - I would like to eventually teach at either an undergraduate university, or perhaps law school, and I don't know if Emory's name is prestigious enough to make that happen.

Sorry for not mentioning that in my original post.

With this new piece of information, I would suggest going with Columbia if that's an option for you. I'm a Chicago guy and would take UChicago over Columbia for academic career, but that's just me.

Agreed 100% .. you left that out, if you want to teach eventually I would suggest the most prestigious school you can get into.


Thanks to both of you - I typed my original post in a bit of a hurry due to a work meeting. That is basically the consensus of what I have heard also. Unfortunately, there's quite the paradox between Debt and Prestige that I need to work out.

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thinkbig
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby thinkbig » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:31 pm

PopCopyManager wrote:
missvik218 wrote:
thinkbig wrote:
PopCopyManager wrote:Thanks for the advice - there are 2 things that worry me about Emory though - 1, 89% employed within 9 months? Thats kinda scary. 2 - I would like to eventually teach at either an undergraduate university, or perhaps law school, and I don't know if Emory's name is prestigious enough to make that happen.

Sorry for not mentioning that in my original post.

With this new piece of information, I would suggest going with Columbia if that's an option for you. I'm a Chicago guy and would take UChicago over Columbia for academic career, but that's just me.

Agreed 100% .. you left that out, if you want to teach eventually I would suggest the most prestigious school you can get into.


Thanks to both of you - I typed my original post in a bit of a hurry due to a work meeting. That is basically the consensus of what I have heard also. Unfortunately, there's quite the paradox between Debt and Prestige that I need to work out.


Yeah, there's always that tradeoff to consider. Especially if you start in an academic career (which would not pay $160k/yr), paying back full sticker of a T14 could take a very very long time...

Oblomov
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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby Oblomov » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:36 pm

CCN, MVPD, then the rest of the T-14, VandyUoT. If were talking TX for market, I'd replace Duke with UoT.

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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby CE2JD » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:28 pm

Oblomov wrote:CCN, MVPD, then the rest of the T-14, VandyUoT. If were talking TX for market, I'd replace Duke with UoT.


Uhhhh... do they even hire NYU grads in Texas (not that any typical NYU grad would want to go to Texas anyway)? You might want to do some research before regurgitating the same old TLS bullshit.

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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby Oblomov » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:01 am

CE2JD wrote:
Oblomov wrote:CCN, MVPD, then the rest of the T-14, VandyUoT. If were talking TX for market, I'd replace Duke with UoT.


Uhhhh... do they even hire NYU grads in Texas (not that any typical NYU grad would want to go to Texas anyway)? You might want to do some research before regurgitating the same old TLS bullshit.



First Tx firm I searched (V&E Houston) has 3 NYU JD's, two associate one partner. I'm going to say yes.

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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby CE2JD » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:11 pm

I would definitely rank NYU below or at the same level as UVA and Duke if we're talking about firms in the South.

Just using Texas as an example:

UVA has double or triple the number of NYU grads in most big Texas firms. People who are ignorant about biglaw hiring trends in the South might attribute this to "self-selection," but I can assure you that there aren't nearly as many people FROM Texas at UVA as people who end up working at big law firms in Texas after graduation. In fact, I don't know anyone in my section of 30, semi-randomly selected people who has even mentioned the POSSIBILITY of working in Texas. UVA, like NYU, is full of type-A Northeast gunners (many from NYC).

So the "self-selection" argument doesn't really work.

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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby nealric » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:44 pm


UVA has double or triple the number of NYU grads in most big Texas firms. People who are ignorant about biglaw hiring trends in the South might attribute this to "self-selection," but I can assure you that there aren't nearly as many people FROM Texas at UVA as people who end up working at big law firms in Texas after graduation. In fact, I don't know anyone in my section of 30, semi-randomly selected people who has even mentioned the POSSIBILITY of working in Texas. UVA, like NYU, is full of type-A Northeast gunners (many from NYC).

So the "self-selection" argument doesn't really work.


I disagree here. NYU people aren't the same crowd as UVA people. I'm originally from Texas, and most of the people I know from Texas would be much more inclined to go to UVA.

I also have quite a few friends/family members in the Texas biglaw community. Basically, they all know what the top schools are. They know NYU is harder to get into than Duke, and may adjust their grade criteria accordingly. However, Texas values ties very strongly. An NYU grad from Houston will do MUCH better interviewing at Texas firms than a Duke or UVA grad from NYC. Frankly, even a Harvard grad with no ties to Texas may have difficulty.

You also need to look at OCI. It is an advantage if a firm comes to OCI. Check and see how many Texas firms interview at a given school before considering going there. I'm pretty sure all the bigTex firms go to NYU/Columbia. They all have NYC offices anyways. I don't think all of them go to Duke.

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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby solotee » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:23 pm

PopCopyManager wrote:
The Zeppelin wrote:
missvik218 wrote:I would make a very large bet that Duke's placement in the South is mostly due to self selection, if they wanted to stay the could. However, I don't really think of FL as being part of "The South" ...

It's not.


Hmm, I just double-checked Duke's website, I guess Florida would probably be considered "South Atlantic." Do you think Duke would be better than say NYU or Columbia? Thanks again for all of your insight


In the south, Duke would be better off than NYU or Columbia IMO. I know a biglaw hiring senior associate in NC that said they look more favorably upon a regional school as opposed to a higher ranked school up north. Basically, you're considered family if you went to school in the south.

But then again if your ultimate goal is academia, the best ranked school is probably your best bet for future prospects.

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Re: Best T14 (sans HYS) for South (Florida, NC, SC, TX)

Postby thanksforthefish » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:32 pm

I would say Vandy (though outside the T14) is an excellent choice for those states. A great rep in the Southeast and a large alumni network in Texas.




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