Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

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TTH
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Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby TTH » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:58 pm

The three big cities in Ohio all qualify as secondary markets, and I'm curious about how to consider the big firms in Ohio. I'm thinking of firms like Porter Wright, Schottenstein Zox, Vorys Sater, and Baker Hostettler.

I think pre-2008, these would have been considered midlaw firms (the Ohio offices, at least), but will slots at these firms be subject to biglaw-level competition from T14 grads shut out of more competitive markets? Will Ohio State/Cincy/Case grads need to be top 5% to have a shot? Just curious to hear the thoughts of current law students on it. Thanks.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby gglr24 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:40 am

Top 5% at case/UC and top 10% at OSU. Top 10% at the other two have a chance, but its tough. T-14's will a good percentage of the spots, but each firm usually will hire at least 1 (sometimes a few) from each school.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby underachiever » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:06 am

To hijack a bit for my own gains....Im a 1L at a top 14, and I want to work in this region. Any idea how tough that will be? where I will have to be in my class? Thx

Also, is it worth a shot to send 1L SA materials out to these firms?

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TTH
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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby TTH » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:14 am

underachiever wrote:To hijack a bit for my own gains....Im a 1L at a top 14, and I want to work in this region. Any idea how tough that will be? where I will have to be in my class? Thx

Also, is it worth a shot to send 1L SA materials out to these firms?


It will be tough and no. Keep your T14 ass away from my markets! ;)

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underachiever
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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby underachiever » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:49 am

TipTravHoot wrote:
underachiever wrote:To hijack a bit for my own gains....Im a 1L at a top 14, and I want to work in this region. Any idea how tough that will be? where I will have to be in my class? Thx

Also, is it worth a shot to send 1L SA materials out to these firms?


It will be tough and no. Keep your T14 ass away from my markets! ;)


Haha, I really should...I'm just a sucker for that beautiful Ohio weather and burgeoning economy seen all around the state (all sarcasm intended, lol)

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby edgarderby » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:37 pm

At ND, I know people near law review numbers that couldn't get a single Ohio callback, let alone an offer. I don't know how the T14 would differ, but things are pretty bad in Ohio right now. Last year, I was told median at ND was pretty typical of landing the large Ohio firms. Boy has that changed!

I'd estimate about half the Ohio firms aren't hiring, and the ones that are have so few slots that they fill up pretty quickly with T14 law review, URM, and IP people. Actually, even those people are having a tough times in some of the cities.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:41 pm

edgarderby wrote:At ND, I know people near law review numbers that couldn't get a single Ohio callback, let alone an offer. I don't know how the T14 would differ, but things are pretty bad in Ohio right now. Last year, I was told median at ND was pretty typical of landing the large Ohio firms. Boy has that changed!

I'd estimate about half the Ohio firms aren't hiring, and the ones that are have so few slots that they fill up pretty quickly with T14 law review, URM, and IP people. Actually, even those people are having a tough times in some of the cities.


I have talked to people at SSD and at Jones Day. SSD is basically melting into the lake, and the people at Jones Day told me that they are seeing a lot more T10 grads heading to firms in Columbus, Cleveland, and Cincy after striking out at NYC, DC, Chicago, etc.; jobs that would normally be taken by graduates of more local schools (he told me OSU and Case specifically, ND might fit in here to some degree, although it certainly has more reach than those two typically). I would imagine this is the situation at a lot of firms.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby edgarderby » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:48 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
edgarderby wrote:At ND, I know people near law review numbers that couldn't get a single Ohio callback, let alone an offer. I don't know how the T14 would differ, but things are pretty bad in Ohio right now. Last year, I was told median at ND was pretty typical of landing the large Ohio firms. Boy has that changed!

I'd estimate about half the Ohio firms aren't hiring, and the ones that are have so few slots that they fill up pretty quickly with T14 law review, URM, and IP people. Actually, even those people are having a tough times in some of the cities.


I have talked to people at SSD and at Jones Day. SSD is basically melting into the lake, and the people at Jones Day told me that they are seeing a lot more T10 grads heading to firms in Columbus, Cleveland, and Cincy after striking out at NYC, DC, Chicago, etc.; jobs that would normally be taken by graduates of more local schools (he told me OSU and Case specifically, ND might fit in here to some degree, although it certainly has more reach than those two typically). I would imagine this is the situation at a lot of firms.


To be frank, ND has been screwed by this whole thing more than most. Local firms in Cincy/Dayton/Columbus are still taking strong local candidates, and then also reaching up to grab some from the toppest of the top schools, leaving ND somewhere in the middle.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:51 pm

edgarderby wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
edgarderby wrote:At ND, I know people near law review numbers that couldn't get a single Ohio callback, let alone an offer. I don't know how the T14 would differ, but things are pretty bad in Ohio right now. Last year, I was told median at ND was pretty typical of landing the large Ohio firms. Boy has that changed!

I'd estimate about half the Ohio firms aren't hiring, and the ones that are have so few slots that they fill up pretty quickly with T14 law review, URM, and IP people. Actually, even those people are having a tough times in some of the cities.


I have talked to people at SSD and at Jones Day. SSD is basically melting into the lake, and the people at Jones Day told me that they are seeing a lot more T10 grads heading to firms in Columbus, Cleveland, and Cincy after striking out at NYC, DC, Chicago, etc.; jobs that would normally be taken by graduates of more local schools (he told me OSU and Case specifically, ND might fit in here to some degree, although it certainly has more reach than those two typically). I would imagine this is the situation at a lot of firms.


To be frank, ND has been screwed by this whole thing more than most. Local firms in Cincy/Dayton/Columbus are still taking strong local candidates, and then also reaching up to grab some from the toppest of the top schools, leaving ND somewhere in the middle.


Yeah, I can see that. The thing that gave ND strength in the good times (far reach, certainly more than similarly ranked schools) isn't holding up so well during the poor times. Sorry to hear things are going so bad there.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby edgarderby » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:56 pm

Helmholtz wrote:Yeah, I can see that. The thing that gave ND strength in the good times (far reach, certainly more than similarly ranked schools) isn't holding up so well during the poor times. Sorry to hear things are going so bad there.


On the bright side, I think the advantage still holds up for a lot of public interest and government jobs against all the non-firm-employed students left, which is a very, very large number at this point.

We'll probably never know since no school will ever admit realistic employment statistics about this disaster.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:45 pm

If the Ohio firms were smart (and that's a big if) they would hire the people they usually hire from the local schools. Those are the people who want to stay in Ohio. They might think they're nabbing the talented T10 people, but they're just going to flee town in 2 years when the economy gets better and go to Chicago or New York.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby Z3RO » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If the Ohio firms were smart (and that's a big if) they would hire the people they usually hire from the local schools. Those are the people who want to stay in Ohio. They might think they're nabbing the talented T10 people, but they're just going to flee town in 2 years when the economy gets better and go to Chicago or New York.

Right. Then all the good Ohio people will be gone... :roll:

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby SteelersandGators » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:29 pm

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Last edited by SteelersandGators on Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby edgarderby » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If the Ohio firms were smart (and that's a big if) they would hire the people they usually hire from the local schools. Those are the people who want to stay in Ohio. They might think they're nabbing the talented T10 people, but they're just going to flee town in 2 years when the economy gets better and go to Chicago or New York.


Exactly. I've said this a million times. I've heard stories (and I personally know a person),that interviewed and had jobs with Ohio firms and had never been in Ohio before the callback. It just doesn't make sense. I had one callback, near where I went to high school, where everyone that had a callback was from Ohio, and almost all of those had gone to high school in the city as well. A girl that had never been there got the job. It's not like these people are vastly more qualified; most of the people I know shooting for these firms had very, very strong GPA's that would have made an easy run at least a couple Chicago and NYC firms in a normal year. Are they really going to be that much better lawyers, to make up for this risk?

I feel like I'm the most unlucky, because I had decided to go back to Ohio no matter what GPA I had, and was actually considering myself to be taking a safer route even after 2Ls and 3Ls told me my GPA had set me up for big city "biglaw." :roll:

I think I'd be much happier if I hadn't done as well 1L year. Doing great, but not great enough to get on law review is a giant cock tease.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby TTH » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:29 pm

Helmholtz wrote:I have talked to people at SSD and at Jones Day. SSD is basically melting into the lake, and the people at Jones Day told me that they are seeing a lot more T10 grads heading to firms in Columbus, Cleveland, and Cincy after striking out at NYC, DC, Chicago, etc.; jobs that would normally be taken by graduates of more local schools (he told me OSU and Case specifically, ND might fit in here to some degree, although it certainly has more reach than those two typically). I would imagine this is the situation at a lot of firms.


Ain't that a lot of Dimp. One would hope that it would be possible to network one's way into a job from OSU, but that seems shaky. Sigh.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:32 am

I hear ya. I grew up in Columbus, and have been planning to work in Cleveland or Columbus ever since the beginning of law school, and planned to settle down there forever. My grades are great, and in any normal year, I really think I would have plenty of offers from Ohio firms (people I know are working at Jones Day with grades much lower than mine). I almost feel betrayed in some respects. I got into T10 schools out of state, and feel like I sacrificed that opportunity to go somewhere cool (like Chicago or New York) because I knew I wanted to end up in Ohio. I should have done it.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby underachiever » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:10 am

After reading this thread, I guess I'm still going to apply/resume drop to Ohio firms, and try and shake the trees and get some connections to help me!? but I'm not holding out any hope.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:15 pm

Based on my own experience with the OH market and that of another two guys I know, (all t14 students from the Midwest) I wouldn't necessarily worry about tons of t14 grads taking all the spots.

Many of the midsize firms in OH would rather hire someone with top grades and law review at an OH school than a t14 grad. Most t14 grads who are not from OH really have no chance unless they have some sort of compelling reason for wanting to be in OH. The reason for this is the firms think that you'll bolt for Chicago or some other big city as soon as the economy picks up and you have a chance. They don't care if you're from the Midwest, they want people from OH and a reason you're locked into staying in OH. Grads of OH schools really aren't a flight risk at all because those schools don't travel well out of state.

Also, keep in mind that if the economy is bad, these places might choose not to hire at all. Their summer classes were already pretty small a couple years ago before the economy totally tanked.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby edgarderby » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Based on my own experience with the OH market and that of another two guys I know, (all t14 students from the Midwest) I wouldn't necessarily worry about tons of t14 grads taking all the spots.

Many of the midsize firms in OH would rather hire someone with top grades and law review at an OH school than a t14 grad. Most t14 grads who are not from OH really have no chance unless they have some sort of compelling reason for wanting to be in OH. The reason for this is the firms think that you'll bolt for Chicago or some other big city as soon as the economy picks up and you have a chance. They don't care if you're from the Midwest, they want people from OH and a reason you're locked into staying in OH. Grads of OH schools really aren't a flight risk at all because those schools don't travel well out of state.

Also, keep in mind that if the economy is bad, these places might choose not to hire at all. Their summer classes were already pretty small a couple years ago before the economy totally tanked.


I lived in Ohio my entire life until law school. The only person I know that got a job in Ohio this year, had no connection to Ohio. So, at least for me, this isn't holding true. Who knows how they're deciding.

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Re: Ohio Firms (midlaw?)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:20 am

I was a SA at a top Cincinnati firm two summers ago. The class was mostly UC students, with a smattering of people from other OH schools and a few from T14s. So I don't know if my class fit very well with either approach described above. Instead, it was somewhere in the middle.




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