Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby General Tso » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:18 am

http://education.yahoo.net/degrees/arti ... alary.html
Secret #1: Get an advanced degree
Earn a college degree and you'll earn more money than without one. Earn an advanced degree and you'll earn even more money. Seems logical...because it's true! According to a 2007 U.S. Census Bureau report, those with advanced degrees earned nearly $15,000 more annually than those with only a bachelor's. In many cases, those who obtain a graduate degree take on extra responsibility and income. For example, attorneys earn almost double the salary of paralegals. Even part-time lawyers can earn nearly $75k.

BLS 2008 median salary: $124,750
Career training secrets: Bachelor's degree in business or a related field; Juris Doctorate from an accredited law school (required).


This article is from TODAY. Later in the article it mentions an online MBA being a route to a 75k salary. And people wonder why idiots are still enrolling in places like Cooley and Thomas Jefferson at full tuition. The idea that lawyers are all rich still pervades our society.

I especially like the part time lawyers making 75k gem.

User avatar
Helmholtz
Posts: 4394
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:48 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:21 am

Crap, the attorneys I know make a hell of a lot more than double what the paralegals make.

User avatar
Foozle
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:04 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby Foozle » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:22 am

I thought for a second there that BLS meant Brooklyn.

Then I clicked the article and realized it was Bureau of Labor Statistics.

ToTransferOrNot
Posts: 1928
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:45 am

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:10 am

This news story is infuriating on so many levels.

Yes, the median salary for lawyers is $125k! Quick, everyone, go take out $180k in loans to attend whatever law school you can get in to!

Oh wait, you mean the median is completely skewed by partners in big firms making $1m, completely skewing the fact that a large proportion of people getting law degrees are going to be screwed? You mean the current median salaries were almost certainly calculated pre-2008? Damnit math.

User avatar
jrobby6
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:25 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby jrobby6 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:12 am

Foozle wrote:I thought for a second there that BLS meant Brooklyn.

Then I clicked the article and realized it was Bureau of Labor Statistics.


Lmao! Same Here! I was like that median is way to high for Brooklyn.

User avatar
Foozle
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:04 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby Foozle » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:18 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:This news story is infuriating on so many levels.

Yes, the median salary for lawyers is $125k! Quick, everyone, go take out $180k in loans to attend whatever law school you can get in to!

Oh wait, you mean the median is completely skewed by partners in big firms making $1m, completely skewing the fact that a large proportion of people getting law degrees are going to be screwed? You mean the current median salaries were almost certainly calculated pre-2008? Damnit math.

Actually a few biglaw partners making $1m would skew the mean, but not the median.

You're right that the figure is probably from before the recent economic troubles. Not to mention I'm sure the salary numbers are self-reported so you have 1) people with lower salaries don't report and 2) some people flat-out lie.
Last edited by Foozle on Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sky'stheLimit
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby Sky'stheLimit » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:23 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:This news story is infuriating on so many levels.

Yes, the median salary for lawyers is $125k! Quick, everyone, go take out $180k in loans to attend whatever law school you can get in to!

Oh wait, you mean the median is completely skewed by partners in big firms making $1m, completely skewing the fact that a large proportion of people getting law degrees are going to be screwed? You mean the current median salaries were almost certainly calculated pre-2008? Damnit math.




Wrongggggg

The only salary that is relevant to the median, is the salary that the middle person makes.

IE. you have a 1000 people, #1-#499 earn 30k p/yr, #500 eanrs 125k p/yr, and #501-#1000 can make 100000000000000000k p/yr. The median is still 125k.
Last edited by Sky'stheLimit on Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

WhyBother?
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:54 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby WhyBother? » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:25 am

Having a JD =/= being an attorney

My biggest fear is not working in a low(ish) paying legal field, it's having to pay back law school while unable to find a job that law school was necessary for. I think that would be especially demoralizing. And statistics like these totally ignore those people.

Sky'stheLimit
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby Sky'stheLimit » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:31 am

jrobby6 wrote:
Foozle wrote:I thought for a second there that BLS meant Brooklyn.

Then I clicked the article and realized it was Bureau of Labor Statistics.


Lmao! Same Here! I was like that median is way to high for Brooklyn.


But sadly, it's probably close to what they report.

User avatar
OperaSoprano
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:54 am

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:07 am

Satoren wrote:
jrobby6 wrote:
Foozle wrote:I thought for a second there that BLS meant Brooklyn.

Then I clicked the article and realized it was Bureau of Labor Statistics.


Lmao! Same Here! I was like that median is way to high for Brooklyn.


But sadly, it's probably close to what they report.


In case you guys are curious:

http://www.brooklaw.edu/career/empstats/

Note the 78% response rate for salary data (grads in private practice only, class of 2008.) This is actually higher than I thought it would be.

ToTransferOrNot
Posts: 1928
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:45 am

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:17 am

Satoren wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:This news story is infuriating on so many levels.

Yes, the median salary for lawyers is $125k! Quick, everyone, go take out $180k in loans to attend whatever law school you can get in to!

Oh wait, you mean the median is completely skewed by partners in big firms making $1m, completely skewing the fact that a large proportion of people getting law degrees are going to be screwed? You mean the current median salaries were almost certainly calculated pre-2008? Damnit math.




Wrongggggg

The only salary that is relevant to the median, is the salary that the middle person makes.

IE. you have a 1000 people, #1-#499 earn 30k p/yr, #500 eanrs 125k p/yr, and #501-#1000 can make 100000000000000000k p/yr. The median is still 125k.


And I fail at remembering the difference between mean/median/mode. This is why I'm in law school--all I had to do with numbers with my music undergrad was count to 12 without getting lost.

Also: The number is still useless/misleading.

User avatar
worldtraveler
Posts: 7669
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:47 am

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:49 am

I feel like we need a sticky in each thread reminding people of what a mean/median are. This confusion happens pretty much everyday.

User avatar
joshikousei
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:38 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby joshikousei » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:01 am

worldtraveler wrote:I feel like we need a sticky in each thread reminding people of what a mean/median are. This confusion happens pretty much everyday.


+ 234982735982739487239487

User avatar
Foozle
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:04 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby Foozle » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:22 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
Satoren wrote:
jrobby6 wrote:
Foozle wrote:I thought for a second there that BLS meant Brooklyn.

Then I clicked the article and realized it was Bureau of Labor Statistics.


Lmao! Same Here! I was like that median is way to high for Brooklyn.


But sadly, it's probably close to what they report.


In case you guys are curious:

http://www.brooklaw.edu/career/empstats/

Note the 78% response rate for salary data (grads in private practice only, class of 2008.) This is actually higher than I thought it would be.

Also note that they do not include a median or mean salary for the total group graduates who enter private practice. Instead they break the range of reported salaries down by firm size, and tell us the median in each of those categories.

Using the distribution percentages in the chart, you can estimate that the average is around 100,000. Of course, the 22% that don't report are probably on the lower side of that figure.

User avatar
KimmyGibbler
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:46 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby KimmyGibbler » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:27 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:This news story is infuriating on so many levels.

Yes, the median salary for lawyers is $125k! Quick, everyone, go take out $180k in loans to attend whatever law school you can get in to!

Oh wait, you mean the median is completely skewed by partners in big firms making $1m, completely skewing the fact that a large proportion of people getting law degrees are going to be screwed? You mean the current median salaries were almost certainly calculated pre-2008? Damnit math.


You need to reread the chapter on mean and median in your statistics book. Outliers generally don't skew medians, they skew means.

oneforship
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:17 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby oneforship » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:34 am

KimmyGibbler wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:This news story is infuriating on so many levels.

Yes, the median salary for lawyers is $125k! Quick, everyone, go take out $180k in loans to attend whatever law school you can get in to!

Oh wait, you mean the median is completely skewed by partners in big firms making $1m, completely skewing the fact that a large proportion of people getting law degrees are going to be screwed? You mean the current median salaries were almost certainly calculated pre-2008? Damnit math.


You need to reread the chapter on mean and median in your statistics book. Outliers generally don't skew medians, they skew means.


You need to reread this thread. It's been covered.

User avatar
Rocketman11
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:32 am

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby Rocketman11 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:35 am

So far only 3 people have corrected the guy who screwed up median versus mean. Let's see how many others will.

User avatar
nealric
Posts: 2395
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby nealric » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:23 pm

In case you guys are curious:

http://www.brooklaw.edu/career/empstats/


I'm not sure how exactly, but they have to be cooking the books here (that or people are lying)

They show 57% going to firms, and of those 45% going to firms of 100+. That's essentially claiming a 25% biglaw placement. No way that is true.

User avatar
jcl2
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:27 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby jcl2 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:39 pm

The article is obviously ridicules, but the median salary for an attorney is only misleading if taken out of context as it is in that article. What we often fail to remember here on TLS when looking at median salaries for attorneys in general is that they are not talking about first year salaries. 125k is probably pretty close to a typical salary for an attorney midway through a career, whether they are in-house, with a small or mid-sized firm, or with the government. What the number fails to account for is that many people who get JDs don't last very long in the field, and people who graduate from TTTs have a very small chance of staying in the field and having successful careers. The faulty conclusion is that getting a JD is a ticket to a 125k job, based on the absurd assumptions that all JDs are equally valuable and that all people who get JDs are equally talented and motivated to be successful. What, I think, you can reasonably conclude from the statistic is that if you go to a good school, work hard, and stick with a career in law you have a good shot at being successful and earning a good living over the course of your career.

User avatar
GATORTIM
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:51 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby GATORTIM » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:55 pm

worldtraveler wrote:I feel like we need a sticky in each thread reminding people of what a mean/median are. This confusion happens pretty much everyday.


pull the one off your back that reads "kick me" and use it

hayman
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 12:14 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby hayman » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:28 pm

jcl2 wrote:The article is obviously ridicules, but the median salary for an attorney is only misleading if taken out of context as it is in that article. What we often fail to remember here on TLS when looking at median salaries for attorneys in general is that they are not talking about first year salaries. 125k is probably pretty close to a typical salary for an attorney midway through a career, whether they are in-house, with a small or mid-sized firm, or with the government. What the number fails to account for is that many people who get JDs don't last very long in the field, and people who graduate from TTTs have a very small chance of staying in the field and having successful careers. The faulty conclusion is that getting a JD is a ticket to a 125k job, based on the absurd assumptions that all JDs are equally valuable and that all people who get JDs are equally talented and motivated to be successful. What, I think, you can reasonably conclude from the statistic is that if you go to a good school, work hard, and stick with a career in law you have a good shot at being successful and earning a good living over the course of your career.

Si

Pearalegal
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:50 am

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby Pearalegal » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:30 pm

Helmholtz wrote:Crap, the attorneys I know make a hell of a lot more than double what the paralegals make.


+1

...dammit.

User avatar
jcl2
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:27 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby jcl2 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:05 pm

hayman wrote:
jcl2 wrote:The article is obviously ridicules, but the median salary for an attorney is only misleading if taken out of context as it is in that article. What we often fail to remember here on TLS when looking at median salaries for attorneys in general is that they are not talking about first year salaries. 125k is probably pretty close to a typical salary for an attorney midway through a career, whether they are in-house, with a small or mid-sized firm, or with the government. What the number fails to account for is that many people who get JDs don't last very long in the field, and people who graduate from TTTs have a very small chance of staying in the field and having successful careers. The faulty conclusion is that getting a JD is a ticket to a 125k job, based on the absurd assumptions that all JDs are equally valuable and that all people who get JDs are equally talented and motivated to be successful. What, I think, you can reasonably conclude from the statistic is that if you go to a good school, work hard, and stick with a career in law you have a good shot at being successful and earning a good living over the course of your career.

Si


Maybe I'm just stupid, but what does "Si" mean?

User avatar
Kohinoor
Posts: 2756
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:51 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:50 pm

jcl2 wrote:
hayman wrote:
jcl2 wrote:The article is obviously ridicules, but the median salary for an attorney is only misleading if taken out of context as it is in that article. What we often fail to remember here on TLS when looking at median salaries for attorneys in general is that they are not talking about first year salaries. 125k is probably pretty close to a typical salary for an attorney midway through a career, whether they are in-house, with a small or mid-sized firm, or with the government. What the number fails to account for is that many people who get JDs don't last very long in the field, and people who graduate from TTTs have a very small chance of staying in the field and having successful careers. The faulty conclusion is that getting a JD is a ticket to a 125k job, based on the absurd assumptions that all JDs are equally valuable and that all people who get JDs are equally talented and motivated to be successful. What, I think, you can reasonably conclude from the statistic is that if you go to a good school, work hard, and stick with a career in law you have a good shot at being successful and earning a good living over the course of your career.

Si


Maybe I'm just stupid, but what does "Si" mean?

--ImageRemoved--

Tave
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:08 pm

Re: Attorney = 1st Secret of a $75k Salary

Postby Tave » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:57 pm

Why do people always assume the self-reporting bias will scew towards the higher salaries?

Not saying it won't, but it seems you could make arguments either way, and I haven't seen any concrete documentation of the common belief.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.