can't decide...

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Can't Decide...

V40, NYC
13
43%
Non-vault, secondary target market
17
57%
 
Total votes: 30

Anonymous User
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can't decide...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:14 pm

Non-vault mid/large size firm in my target geographic area, Boston, 145k/year--its the city I had always planned on being in, and I really enjoyed everyone I met with there. Not the same reputation as many other firms in Boston.

vs.

V40 firm in NYC, 160k/year. Again, really enjoyed everyone I met with. I think the training will probably be better here, but the quality of life probably a little worse.
Never really planned on being in NYC...but I don't think I would be completely miserable

Money is a wash when you consider cost of living (I wouldn't live in Manhattan). I'm at a total loss, please help?

Side Note/Edit: I'm very concerned about the options that these firms set up in terms of exiting the firm. I think I may have more options coming from the NYC firm...but I'm not completely sure. If I were going to switch firms later, I would try for a V50-V100 Boston firm, I think.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:53 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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ToadGoDead
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Re: can't decide...

Postby ToadGoDead » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:25 pm

Go with the first. They way you described the two scenarios makes it sound like u want to do the first choice but need assurance. I'd say # 1

wizger
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Re: can't decide...

Postby wizger » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:27 pm

from what you posted it's obvious you want the first option. there are other things to consider though, like partner track etc. but if all you want to go by is what you've stated thus far,then see my first sentence.

Anonymous User
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Re: can't decide...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:31 pm

My recommendation would be the V40. It's always easier to transition to a secondary market than vice-versa. Exit options will be way better out of the V40. Unless there's some particularly strong practice group at the secondary firm that isn't an option at the V40... It sounds like both are a good fit for you, and if your secondary option isn't even a V100 office, then it's not even one of the best secondary market options.

Also, is the 145k a salary cut or has it always been 145 in that market?

Anonymous User
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Re: can't decide...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:40 pm

It's always been 145, as far as I know.

And I am very concerned about exit options--I don't plan on being in big law forever...

Even if I do, I would want to head back to my secondary market eventually...I'm just wondering if getting into a ~V50 in my target market is easier from a NYC V40 or a non-V100 firm in the market.

I don't know that I've ever been more confused.

viking138
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Re: can't decide...

Postby viking138 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:44 pm

What is the secondary market? I feel like there's a difference between say San Francisco or Miami...some markets (Seattle for sure, apparently) are fairly insular and it might be good to get in as soon as possible.

Posner
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Re: can't decide...

Postby Posner » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:11 pm

.
Last edited by Posner on Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: can't decide...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:28 pm

Its Boston.

I guess "secondary" isn't the right word...just secondary next to NYC.

Below many other firms in the market

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Matthies
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Re: can't decide...

Postby Matthies » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:40 pm

I’m assuming your target market and NYC are not in the same state? Then you exit options if you are sure you want to return to target market, in my view, from NYC are not as good as already being in target market in the first place.

First off unless you wait seven years or whatever it is to lateral into the target market you’re going to have to take the bar again in target market to practice there. And while NYC firm may have a better rep in NYC how well is it heard of in target market? Finally the practice of law is all about who you know and your contacts in that city. Knowing the judges, the lawyers, the people you are opposing, people who can offer you outside firm employment, developing your rep. if you try and leave NYC for target market after several years you will be starting over with no contacts, no rep and no local knowledge.

I don’t know if V40 from NYC is going to make that you popular in target market when you lack all the contacts of the people there with your same level of professional experience. Add to that all your book of business will be NYC based, so you’re not likely to bring any clients with you to target city. Its starting over from scratch where if you had started there you would already have the connections you need to lateral out.

If it was me, and I was planning to return at some point to my local target market for sure I would just start out there rather than go through trying to lateral back mid career where you have no contacts and are not licensed to practice. But that’s just me.

Renzo
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Re: can't decide...

Postby Renzo » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:43 pm

If you know you want to work in Boston, go to Boston.

Anonymous User
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Re: can't decide...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:47 pm

No--Boston and NYC are not in the same state...

I would probably take both the New York and Mass bar exams straight out of law school anyway.

The V40 firm is still well-known in Boston...I wouldn't be particularly concerned about contacts in Boston for a move...I have a number of those as is, and the V40 firm actually has an office in Boston, and does quite a bit of business with Boston-based companies...Plus, I would be trying to lateral "down" to a firm in Boston...not lateral "up" from a lower ranked firm in Boston...

Those are basically my thoughts/concerns on lateraling later on...

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Matthies
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Re: can't decide...

Postby Matthies » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:No--Boston and NYC are not in the same state...

I would probably take both the New York and Mass bar exams straight out of law school anyway.

The V40 firm is still well-known in Boston...I wouldn't be particularly concerned about contacts in Boston for a move...I have a number of those as is, and the V40 firm actually has an office in Boston, and does quite a bit of business with Boston-based companies...Plus, I would be trying to lateral "down" to a firm in Boston...not lateral "up" from a lower ranked firm in Boston...

Those are basically my thoughts/concerns on lateraling later on...


Then I think this depends on when you want to lateral back to Boston, first three years of practice then the rank of the firm your working for is going to matter in the equation more than it will after years 4/5+ by then you’re going to be expected to carry your own weight especially if you want to move into something like midlaw. That will mean having your own book of portable business. By years six/seven/eight your earthier partner track or not, and you’ll be expected to bring something of value with you more than just experience in another market. If the NYC firm has a Boston office that you might try working in NYC and transferring to the Boston location before you decide to exit. As for taking both bar exams, I think they might be on the same days, check that, if they are you will need to do July then Feb. to take both (also see if your MBE scores transfer or not).

Is this a summer SA or associate offer?

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spanktheduck
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Re: can't decide...

Postby spanktheduck » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:00 am

Matthies wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:No--Boston and NYC are not in the same state...

I would probably take both the New York and Mass bar exams straight out of law school anyway.

The V40 firm is still well-known in Boston...I wouldn't be particularly concerned about contacts in Boston for a move...I have a number of those as is, and the V40 firm actually has an office in Boston, and does quite a bit of business with Boston-based companies...Plus, I would be trying to lateral "down" to a firm in Boston...not lateral "up" from a lower ranked firm in Boston...

Those are basically my thoughts/concerns on lateraling later on...


Then I think this depends on when you want to lateral back to Boston, first three years of practice then the rank of the firm your working for is going to matter in the equation more than it will after years 4/5+ by then you’re going to be expected to carry your own weight especially if you want to move into something like midlaw. That will mean having your own book of portable business. By years six/seven/eight your earthier partner track or not, and you’ll be expected to bring something of value with you more than just experience in another market. If the NYC firm has a Boston office that you might try working in NYC and transferring to the Boston location before you decide to exit. As for taking both bar exams, I think they might be on the same days, check that, if they are you will need to do July then Feb. to take both (also see if your MBE scores transfer or not).

Is this a summer SA or associate offer?


Are associates from v40 really expected to bring business with them? Who exactly are they going to bring? The Fortune 500 company they had been doing work for? I know it depends on the firm but I would guess that a mid-size firm in Boston probably has mostly institutional clients that the law firm grooms new partners for.

transferguy
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Re: can't decide...

Postby transferguy » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:46 am

Proskauer Rose vs. Nutter McClennen/Sullivan & Worcester?

legends159
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Re: can't decide...

Postby legends159 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:00 am

if you like the firm, you don't need to worry about exit options before you even start working there.

hiro86
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Re: can't decide...

Postby hiro86 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:07 am

legends159 wrote:if you like the firm, you don't need to worry about exit options before you even start working there.

Planning ahead is a very good idea. What percentage of new hires typically make partner?

jhett
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Re: can't decide...

Postby jhett » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:33 am

I went to school in Boston and had a choice of firms in Boston and NYC (both for SA and for full-time associate positions). I ended up choosing Boston. I know both markets fairly well. If you want, you can PM me with more details and I can give you my thoughts.




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