Do lawyers have vacations?

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ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:04 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:That makes sense.But there seems to be a different way to calculate the billable hours.According to AveryIndex, you can get 39.3 billable hours if you work 50 hours a week.http://www.averyindex.com/shortest_hours.php


There are a number of assumptions with that number.

1. The 50/39.3 number is one firm.

2. All numbers reported are averages. You can figure out what that means.

2. It's midlevels. For them, an 80% efficiency rate is more plausible. At the same time, they have more direct responsibility for cases and deals.

3. Note the almost complete absence of big NY firms on the "shortest" list. This is where they went:

http://www.averyindex.com/longest_hours.php

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Philo38
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Philo38 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:05 pm

Pearalegal wrote:
Philo38 wrote:
Lots of vacation time . . . lots of money . . . Congressman?


Theres always being a Supreme Court Justice if OP wants to stay in the legal field.


True, but you have to work really long hard hours to get there.

Pearalegal
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Pearalegal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:07 pm

Philo38 wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:
Philo38 wrote:
Lots of vacation time . . . lots of money . . . Congressman?


Theres always being a Supreme Court Justice if OP wants to stay in the legal field.


True, but you have to work really long hard hours to get there.


Nah, a friend of a friend knew this guy who clerked for the supreme court and he did really well there, and now hes Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

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Philo38
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Philo38 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:10 pm

Pearalegal wrote:
Philo38 wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:
Philo38 wrote:
Lots of vacation time . . . lots of money . . . Congressman?


Theres always being a Supreme Court Justice if OP wants to stay in the legal field.


True, but you have to work really long hard hours to get there.


Nah, a friend of a friend knew this guy who clerked for the supreme court and he did really well there, and now hes Ruth Bader Ginsburg.


Ha, Ha. True enough. But it has to be a long cold lonely experience being Ginsburg. I'd take the 8th graders.

hank44
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby hank44 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:43 pm

rambling now off my chest and, accordingly, off the thread..

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Gaius
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Gaius » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:52 pm

To sum this thread up, basically you can take a week, and maybe a couple 3 day weekends, but you'll always be reachable by cellphone.

I can deal with that.

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paratactical
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby paratactical » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:13 pm

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Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:47 pm

paratactical wrote:
Gaius wrote:To sum this thread up, basically you can take a week, and maybe a couple 3 day weekends, but you'll always be reachable by cellphone.

I can deal with that.


And, rarely, but occasionally, you will have to scrap/delay a vacation last minute. My firm has, in the past, paid the charges to change my airline tickets and my hotel reservations. They don't treat you like garbage, but the firm comes before a vacation.


+100

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paratactical
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby paratactical » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:50 pm

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Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pearalegal
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Pearalegal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:50 pm

paratactical wrote:
Gaius wrote:To sum this thread up, basically you can take a week, and maybe a couple 3 day weekends, but you'll always be reachable by cellphone.

I can deal with that.


And, rarely, but occasionally, you will have to scrap/delay a vacation last minute. My firm has, in the past, paid the charges to change my airline tickets and my hotel reservations. They don't treat you like garbage, but the firm comes before a vacation.


+1, this happened to me.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:08 pm

paratactical wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:
paratactical wrote:
Gaius wrote:To sum this thread up, basically you can take a week, and maybe a couple 3 day weekends, but you'll always be reachable by cellphone.

I can deal with that.


And, rarely, but occasionally, you will have to scrap/delay a vacation last minute. My firm has, in the past, paid the charges to change my airline tickets and my hotel reservations. They don't treat you like garbage, but the firm comes before a vacation.


+100


Have I told you lately that I love you?


No, but its the first news thats excited me all day as I am writing a reply brief to an opposition to my motion written by some douche at a V15 who just sucks at law. Thanks for my first official smile of the night ;)

Pearalegal
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Pearalegal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:13 pm

reasonable_man wrote:No, but its the first news thats excited me all day as I am writing a reply brief to an opposition to my motion written by some douche at a V15 who just sucks at law. Thanks for my first official smile of the night ;)


Oh please, night. Its 6:15.

Kant
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Kant » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:19 pm

What is V15?

270910
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby 270910 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:49 pm

helfer snooterbagon wrote: Every dollar that the partners pay the associates is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners.


This is the stupidest shit I've ever heard. Do you just fundamentally not comprehend math?

Johnny First Year bills at least 2,000 hour in Boom Year and pulls down $160,000 and a $30,000 bonus = $95/ billed hour. At 2,400 hours it's closer to $80 / billed hour.

Johnny First Year earns multiple hundreds of dollars for the firm for every hour that he bills.

For every dollar that the partners pay the associates they're making bank, son. It's called leverage.

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redsox
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby redsox » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:57 pm

disco_barred wrote:
helfer snooterbagon wrote: Every dollar that the partners pay the associates is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners.


This is the stupidest shit I've ever heard. Do you just fundamentally not comprehend math?

Johnny First Year bills at least 2,000 hour in Boom Year and pulls down $160,000 and a $30,000 bonus = $95/ billed hour. At 2,400 hours it's closer to $80 / billed hour.

Johnny First Year earns multiple hundreds of dollars for the firm for every hour that he bills.

For every dollar that the partners pay the associates they're making bank, son. It's called leverage.


Which is why s/he didn't say "Every hour that the associates bill is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners."

270910
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby 270910 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:03 pm

redsox wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
helfer snooterbagon wrote: Every dollar that the partners pay the associates is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners.


This is the stupidest shit I've ever heard. Do you just fundamentally not comprehend math?

Johnny First Year bills at least 2,000 hour in Boom Year and pulls down $160,000 and a $30,000 bonus = $95/ billed hour. At 2,400 hours it's closer to $80 / billed hour.

Johnny First Year earns multiple hundreds of dollars for the firm for every hour that he bills.

For every dollar that the partners pay the associates they're making bank, son. It's called leverage.


Which is why s/he didn't say "Every hour that the associates bill is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners."


It doesn't matter. Implying that the money the partners pay associates is anything but the greatest investment ever is just ridiculous. Firms over hired so badly because while the work was there every associate they had was like a hard working little gold mine.

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elliefont
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby elliefont » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:32 pm

what are these firms like during holidays? the firm comes before Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc?

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redsox
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby redsox » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

disco_barred wrote:
redsox wrote:Which is why s/he didn't say "Every hour that the associates bill is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners."


It doesn't matter. Implying that the money the partners pay associates is anything but the greatest investment ever is just ridiculous. Firms over hired so badly because while the work was there every associate they had was like a hard working little gold mine.


What he said is still true (at least, what you quoted). They don't pay associates a dime more than they feel that they have to to get the best ones they can take advantage of and a few who will make partner. It certainly isn't the stupidest shit you've ever heard.

helfer snooterbagon
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby helfer snooterbagon » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:14 pm

Red Sox: Thanks

Disco: You are an idiot

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reasonable_man
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:04 pm

Pearalegal wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:No, but its the first news thats excited me all day as I am writing a reply brief to an opposition to my motion written by some douche at a V15 who just sucks at law. Thanks for my first official smile of the night ;)


Oh please, night. Its 6:15.



Agreed. 6:15 is not night.. However, its now 9:04, which is certainly night, and I'm still here.. Court in the morning.. blah.

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ruleser
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby ruleser » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:21 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:So in fact,you have only 1 week of vacation?I guess teaching the law is better than practicing if I can make 100k a year.

Um, if your goal is just a cushy job, then why study law at all? Yes, teaching law is much easier/more vacation likely than practicing. But who the heck wants to be a teacher? Maybe when I'm old and have practiced for years and am ready for a break...

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paratactical
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby paratactical » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:52 pm

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Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bahama
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby bahama » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:38 am

Some datapoints from recent personal experience:

- Friend who is a Second Year Associate in NY big law had to cancel long standing weekend vacation plans on a Friday to do urgent work at the office on Saturday and Sunday. Wife was pissed.
- Consensus among several friends who work in consulting is you need to be at work 50-60 hours to bill 40. This works out to 2000hrs/yr assuming 2 weeks vacation/days off. So the big law associates billing 2200-2400 hrs a year are at work more than 60 hours a week.
- Banker friends in NY report working an average of 80-85 hrs/week. Roughly 10am-midnight or 1am weekdays and the rest of the hours at various times during the weekend.

gollymolly
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby gollymolly » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:35 pm

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Last edited by gollymolly on Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jrwhitedog
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Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby jrwhitedog » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:48 pm

gollymolly wrote:It's the nature of the business. Nobody goes to biglaw for the hours.

But it won't make much difference in a middle firm in terms of income if you are not a partner,right?And maybe less billables? :?:




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