Do lawyers have vacations?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273280
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:08 pm

are lawyers allowed to have families?

User avatar
Philo38
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:21 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Philo38 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:09 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:
Philo38 wrote:
thompson wrote:
jrwhitedog wrote:So in fact,you have only 1 week of vacation?I guess teaching the law is better than practicing if I can make 100k a year.

Do you go to YHS? If not, I'm afraid to say your chances of academia are slim to none.

EDIT: that was harsh, sorry.


I doubt legal teaching is for you if the sole determining factor is the amount of vacation. I mean, if you want vacation time be a sales person at REI or something. If you want a career that doesn't take that much of a time commitment than you probably shouldn't go to law school . . .

Hell, teach 8th graders history. Than you get tones of vacations.

You're right.I am interested in law,but if I have to almost kill myself to satisfy the billable hours,I'd rather live a meaningful life with less money.And by the way,law school professors make a good fortune,right?


A small fortune? No. Some of them make a good deal and most make more than the average professor but your missing the point. They don't want you. No offense, but they dont want professors who are there because they want to avoid work. If you want to become a law professor you will still hate your job if it isn't motivated by love of legal academia.

Legal teaching jobs are VERY hard to get. The majority of law professors come from top 5 law schools. It isn't exactly an easy career.

I agree you are better off living a life that is meaningful to you rather than just following the one that pays the best; but, when you approach a life changing career decision your first criteria shouldn't be vacation time. Especially not if you want to have a sucessful legal career. In fact, from what I've seen so far most of the people who look at the law the way you seem to are the ones who do end up in the crappy firm jobs.

A law degree is a good degree but the way I see it it isn't really worth it if your looking for the job that pays well, and requires less effort. Go be a doctor.

User avatar
Merrill
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Merrill » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:29 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
No firm outside the V20 is worth that... delaying a wedding can involve huge sunk costs and loss of good will not to mention the message it sends to your significant other.


On the bright side, early marriages are most susceptible to divorce, so maybe that year and a half delay prevented a marriage that would have been a messy divorce soon after.

;)

User avatar
Drake014
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:22 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Drake014 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:44 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:
Philo38 wrote:
thompson wrote:
jrwhitedog wrote:So in fact,you have only 1 week of vacation?I guess teaching the law is better than practicing if I can make 100k a year.

Do you go to YHS? If not, I'm afraid to say your chances of academia are slim to none.

EDIT: that was harsh, sorry.


I doubt legal teaching is for you if the sole determining factor is the amount of vacation. I mean, if you want vacation time be a sales person at REI or something. If you want a career that doesn't take that much of a time commitment than you probably shouldn't go to law school . . .

Hell, teach 8th graders history. Than you get tones of vacations.

You're right.I am interested in law,but if I have to almost kill myself to satisfy the billable hours,I'd rather live a meaningful life with less money.And by the way,law school professors make a good fortune,right?


Or you could just work at a small to mid size firm like most lawyers.

User avatar
Drake014
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:22 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Drake014 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Philo38 wrote:
jrwhitedog wrote:
Philo38 wrote:
thompson wrote:Do you go to YHS? If not, I'm afraid to say your chances of academia are slim to none.

EDIT: that was harsh, sorry.


I doubt legal teaching is for you if the sole determining factor is the amount of vacation. I mean, if you want vacation time be a sales person at REI or something. If you want a career that doesn't take that much of a time commitment than you probably shouldn't go to law school . . .

Hell, teach 8th graders history. Than you get tones of vacations.

You're right.I am interested in law,but if I have to almost kill myself to satisfy the billable hours,I'd rather live a meaningful life with less money.And by the way,law school professors make a good fortune,right?


A small fortune? No. Some of them make a good deal and most make more than the average professor but your missing the point. They don't want you. No offense, but they dont want professors who are there because they want to avoid work. If you want to become a law professor you will still hate your job if it isn't motivated by love of legal academia.

Legal teaching jobs are VERY hard to get. The majority of law professors come from top 5 law schools. It isn't exactly an easy career.

I agree you are better off living a life that is meaningful to you rather than just following the one that pays the best; but, when you approach a life changing career decision your first criteria shouldn't be vacation time. Especially not if you want to have a sucessful legal career. In fact, from what I've seen so far most of the people who look at the law the way you seem to are the ones who do end up in the crappy firm jobs.

A law degree is a good degree but the way I see it it isn't really worth it if your looking for the job that pays well, and requires less effort. Go be a doctor.


What you've seen so far as someone who hasn't even entered into law school?

User avatar
reasonable_man
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:27 am

ziggysmarley wrote:This entire post is ridiculous. Lawyers can take vacations and do take vacations. If a lawyer reschedules her wedding (or even a big vacation), then that reflects poorly on the individuals involved: either the lawyer who can't schedule appropriately re: taking a vacation during a non-super busy time in their caseload, plan ahead and find another lawyer to cover, etc or the firm/department head/partner being an asshole. Biglaw rarely involves the type of "chain yourself to your desk for 24 hours a day, day-in, day-out" type mentality that naive law students perpetuate on these boards.

And I think the OP is a flame.



OKKKK lol.

helfer snooterbagon
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:04 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby helfer snooterbagon » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:43 am

ziggysmarley wrote:This entire post is ridiculous. Lawyers can take vacations and do take vacations. If a lawyer reschedules her wedding (or even a big vacation), then that reflects poorly on the individuals involved: either the lawyer who can't schedule appropriately re: taking a vacation during a non-super busy time in their caseload, plan ahead and find another lawyer to cover, etc or the firm/department head/partner being an asshole. Biglaw rarely involves the type of "chain yourself to your desk for 24 hours a day, day-in, day-out" type mentality that naive law students perpetuate on these boards.

And I think the OP is a flame.


So what does Big-Law involve then? Why the hell would they pay you so well if they did not expect super long hours? Every dollar that the partners pay the associates is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners. The partners are not paying you the big bucks because of your brilliant legal insight. Clients who are paying a firm upwards of $500 an hour expect that the firm will always be available. If the partner is always available, then you will always be available.

Pearalegal
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:50 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Pearalegal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:46 am

helfer snooterbagon wrote:
ziggysmarley wrote:This entire post is ridiculous. Lawyers can take vacations and do take vacations. If a lawyer reschedules her wedding (or even a big vacation), then that reflects poorly on the individuals involved: either the lawyer who can't schedule appropriately re: taking a vacation during a non-super busy time in their caseload, plan ahead and find another lawyer to cover, etc or the firm/department head/partner being an asshole. Biglaw rarely involves the type of "chain yourself to your desk for 24 hours a day, day-in, day-out" type mentality that naive law students perpetuate on these boards.

And I think the OP is a flame.


So what does Big-Law involve then? Why the hell would they pay you so well if they did not expect super long hours? Every dollar that the partners pay the associates is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners. The partners are not paying you the big bucks because of your brilliant legal insight. Clients who are paying a firm upwards of $500 an hour expect that the firm will always be available. If the partner is always available, then you will always be available.


Lol. Who are you? First of all, you're low balling how much a client pays by an insane amount. Second of all, though big law does pay well, its hardly some outrageous salary that makes people into zombies.

My attorneys, even the young associates, are almost always out of the office by 7. V20 firm.

The person you were quoting has it much closer than you.

helfer snooterbagon
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:04 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby helfer snooterbagon » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:53 am

Thanks for helping me unfuck myself.

ScaredWorkedBored
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:37 pm

There's no need to argue over the math or what billable hours targets involve re: vacation because Yale Career Services already did that:

http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/C ... e_hour.pdf

You can hit a 2000 hours target working 47 weeks a year if you work 60 hour weeks and the hours are even and you make 70% of your "work" time billable. So if you do that and are allowed/able to take holidays and vacation, you can get your vacation and your target.

The catch is that those assumptions on efficiency are unrealistic for office work, particularly for new lawyers. Which the Yale piece acknowledges by saying these are mathematical minimums. They don't account for office chat, "development" hours, training, or the inevitable non-billable 40 hour "assignment."

Any "goal" of 2200+ for bonus or being a "superstar" associate reasons pretty much eliminates your vacation prospects entirely. That's adding at least another month of full work hours. And you were at 47 weeks worked already, sooo...

User avatar
Philo38
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:21 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Philo38 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:00 pm

"What you've seen so far as someone who hasn't even entered into law school?"

What I've seen so far as someone who has worked in three law firms over the last four years, yes. I realize I'm not a 60 year old lawyer that is why I added the "from what I've seen so far" part. Clearly.

ziggysmarley
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:37 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby ziggysmarley » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:08 pm

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:There's no need to argue over the math or what billable hours targets involve re: vacation because Yale Career Services already did that:

http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/C ... e_hour.pdf

You can hit a 2000 hours target working 47 weeks a year if you work 60 hour weeks and the hours are even and you make 70% of your "work" time billable. So if you do that and are allowed/able to take holidays and vacation, you can get your vacation and your target.

The catch is that those assumptions on efficiency are unrealistic for office work, particularly for new lawyers. Which the Yale piece acknowledges by saying these are mathematical minimums. They don't account for office chat, "development" hours, training, or the inevitable non-billable 40 hour "assignment."

Any "goal" of 2200+ for bonus or being a "superstar" associate reasons pretty much eliminates your vacation prospects entirely. That's adding at least another month of full work hours. And you were at 47 weeks worked already, sooo...



What you're forgetting is that some weeks you'll work 60 weeks, and then every so often you'll work 80 or 100 hours for a week to get a deadline done. Still able to take a vacation.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby paratactical » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:10 pm

.
Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jrwhitedog
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:34 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby jrwhitedog » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:12 pm

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:There's no need to argue over the math or what billable hours targets involve re: vacation because Yale Career Services already did that:

http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/C ... e_hour.pdf

You can hit a 2000 hours target working 47 weeks a year if you work 60 hour weeks and the hours are even and you make 70% of your "work" time billable. So if you do that and are allowed/able to take holidays and vacation, you can get your vacation and your target.

The catch is that those assumptions on efficiency are unrealistic for office work, particularly for new lawyers. Which the Yale piece acknowledges by saying these are mathematical minimums. They don't account for office chat, "development" hours, training, or the inevitable non-billable 40 hour "assignment."

Any "goal" of 2200+ for bonus or being a "superstar" associate reasons pretty much eliminates your vacation prospects entirely. That's adding at least another month of full work hours. And you were at 47 weeks worked already, sooo...

That makes sense.But there seems to be a different way to calculate the billable hours.According to AveryIndex, you can get 39.3 billable hours if you work 50 hours a week.http://www.averyindex.com/shortest_hours.php

User avatar
jrwhitedog
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:34 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby jrwhitedog » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:13 pm

paratactical wrote:In my experience, 2000 hours is low for a first year. You will not make partner at that level, at least not in the V50.

Is the more billable hours the only factor to make you a partner?

ziggysmarley
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:37 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby ziggysmarley » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:17 pm

helfer snooterbagon wrote:
ziggysmarley wrote:This entire post is ridiculous. Lawyers can take vacations and do take vacations. If a lawyer reschedules her wedding (or even a big vacation), then that reflects poorly on the individuals involved: either the lawyer who can't schedule appropriately re: taking a vacation during a non-super busy time in their caseload, plan ahead and find another lawyer to cover, etc or the firm/department head/partner being an asshole. Biglaw rarely involves the type of "chain yourself to your desk for 24 hours a day, day-in, day-out" type mentality that naive law students perpetuate on these boards.

And I think the OP is a flame.


So what does Big-Law involve then? Why the hell would they pay you so well if they did not expect super long hours? Every dollar that the partners pay the associates is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners. The partners are not paying you the big bucks because of your brilliant legal insight. Clients who are paying a firm upwards of $500 an hour expect that the firm will always be available. If the partner is always available, then you will always be available.


Remember, 60 hours a week (average) is considered "super long hours" to most people. And clients spend upwards of $1000+/hour, though not for associates (who start around $235/hour in their first year and then range upwards by around $50-80 per hour/per year).

My original post was re: "vacations are possible, because Biglaw isn't as much of a sweat shop as naive law students think." I stick by that. I don't think many partners actually sit in their corner offices, looking into a crystal ball, and cackling as they milk their associates dry... partners want to make money, but they are people and don't want to kill their associates. In my experience, partners expect you to show up to work and do long hours, but they still are happy to see you have a life, get married, take a vacation.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby paratactical » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:18 pm

.
Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby paratactical » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:20 pm

.
Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pearalegal
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:50 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Pearalegal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:22 pm

paratactical wrote:
1) As a paralegal, I get billed at $225/hour. Associates bill at more.


We are worth the exact same amount.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby paratactical » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:23 pm

.
Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thompson
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:04 pm

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby thompson » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:23 pm

OP has to be a flame. I gave him the benefit of the doubt at first, but I just can't do it anymore.

Pearalegal
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:50 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Pearalegal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:24 pm

paratactical wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:
paratactical wrote:
1) As a paralegal, I get billed at $225/hour. Associates bill at more.


We are worth the exact same amount.


Aww. We're twinkies!


Love the new tar, by the way.

User avatar
crysmissmichelle
Posts: 399
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby crysmissmichelle » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:49 pm

Philo38 wrote:
Hell, teach 8th graders history. Than you get tones of vacations.


His second requirement was money. . .

User avatar
Philo38
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:21 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Philo38 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:01 pm

crysmissmichelle wrote:
Philo38 wrote:
Hell, teach 8th graders history. Than you get tones of vacations.


His second requirement was money. . .


That is true . . .

Lots of vacation time . . . lots of money . . . Congressman?

Pearalegal
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:50 am

Re: Do lawyers have vacations?

Postby Pearalegal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:04 pm

Philo38 wrote:
Lots of vacation time . . . lots of money . . . Congressman?


Theres always being a Supreme Court Justice if OP wants to stay in the legal field.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.