OperaSoprano wrote: shadowfish wrote:
BradyToMoss wrote:This could have been a great thread given the subject matter. What a failure.
I'm curious about what difference attractiveness makes for students who are well-situated for the job. I'm sure it's hard to tell ITE, but any thoughts? Most people at my school are quiet about callbacks, and there also aren't many people who are absolutely stunning or who are run-for-the-hills ugly (and some of the people who I would put in this latter category are on Law Review, which probably negates the effect). I'm definitely one of the less attractive people and in the bottom 10% of fashion sense, but it's hard for me to tell if I'm getting dinged b/c of ITE, bad interview, or whether they chose between me and someone with my grades based on some intangible personality assessment. I doubt they explicitly take into account attractiveness, but how someone looks affects how s/he comes across.
If someone has any info on the ATL-alleged Katten "pussy passes," though, that would be a pretty extreme example of attractiveness factoring in...
I don't think any of it is explicit, nor do I think it's uniformly bad, except as it leads to misconduct and harassment on the job. I have a well developed sense of style (it would be embarrassing if I didn't, given my alma mater) and half of TLS has met me and can better evaluate my appearance. That said, I hardly expect that any physical attributes I might or might not possess will cut me a break if I am unqualified.
I've done some reading about the impact of physical attractiveness (specifically in women) in hiring, and one author's contention was that it was seen as a bonus for positions requiring client interaction. Waitresses, receptionists/admin, PR assistants, and those employed in anything traditionally considered "pink collar" definitely get the attractiveness bump, at least according to this author. In positions requiring gravity and responsibility, however, the author believes that applicants who come across as young and pretty are at a disadvantage
, whatever their qualifications. Legal practice presumably combines client interaction with considerable responsibility, so I'm not quite sure how this plays out.
I don't really want to comment on the whole thread, but at least regarding the bolded I will say that one of the main group observations made in my externship course last year (where everyone serving a local externship would meet to talk about what we were working on) was that many of the younger women in the class had a major problem earning respect from their clients in the beginning. The initial assumption of their clients (many of whom were older women) was that the students were just teenagers instead of women and should be treated as such. Ageism when combined with attractiveness probably makes it worse, but I think it mainly comes down to what sort of attractiveness you're talking about. If a woman is young and attractive and comes off as young and inexperienced, then they're going to have problems in the workplace no matter how attractive they are until they can figure out a way to portray themselves as mature (or perhaps intelligent and trustworthy.) They still face a higher risk of sexual discrimination in the workplace than men, but hopefully not as severe as it used to be.
Unfortunately for you women, very few can grow beards as quickly as I can. When I was 22 I took a job where I had to direct 50-year old engineers... in the first month I grew a beard and that pretty much ended my fears of being viewed as an uppity college grad.
OperaSoprano wrote:I tend to shake my head at the modeling industry in general. I'm friends with a couple of the girls who are walking for smaller designers during fashion week, and I'm glad I was never tall enough/skinny enough to jump in that snake pit. (Editorial/runway models don't even need to be conventionally beautiful, provided they have the right measurements and some sort of striking look.)
Thread derail now over. Back to discussing attractive people in the workplace.
OS, if you're ever looking for a fundraiser at school you might want to think about hosting a fashion show. They apparently do it here at the UG every year (YCRev, care to comment?) and I hear it does well. Our Law Students for Social Justice is hosting its second annual pub crawl next month which will hopefully raise enough to send a few students to do legal aid over spring break, either in Bangladesh, New Orleans, or with a Native American group in Phoenix. But assuming you can get enough of your classmates to walk, I bet it'd be a pretty funny event.