grades and clerkships

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Anonymous User
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grades and clerkships

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:00 pm

do judges (and ITE, hiring partners) really care about what classes you take in your 2L and 3L?

suppose you got a very impressive GPA (almost a 4.0) in your second or third year, will they discount it because you did not take corporation/ tax ... etc. but classes that are generally considered less substantive? (e.g. human rights) or will they think that an A is an A and you've managed to kick ass after all?

P.S. the human rights law classes are just as popular and prof still have to adhere to the grading curve.

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Cavalier
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby Cavalier » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:12 pm

I'm not really sure about judges, but law firms definitely want people who have some knowledge related to an area of practice. There's nothing wrong with taking a few "less substantive" classes, but if you take nothing but classes like "racism and the law," you probably will have a tough time getting hired by a firm, unless one of the firm's major clients really likes articles on post-World War II race relations.

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TTT-LS
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby TTT-LS » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:30 am

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Last edited by TTT-LS on Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BradyToMoss
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby BradyToMoss » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:25 pm

Sack up and take real classes.

Anonymous User
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:18 pm

I found the law and xxx classes really fun.
that said, I do have some real classes even as a 2L, like immigration law and family law.
I am also doing independent research on health law.

can't say these are something like law and racism.

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thedogship
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby thedogship » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:00 pm

I think Scalia has the original quote, but I've heard a number of judges repeat it: anything called "XX and the Law" is likely going to be looked at suspiciously. Classes like Tax, Corporations, Admin Law, Federal Courts, etc... may be hard or be boring, but there is a reason that they are mentioned again and again - you learn a lot about the law in those classes.

It may be a cliche, but the judge i worked for last spring said that you'd better take Federal Courts if you want to clerk.

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Cavalier
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby Cavalier » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:23 pm

It may be a cliche, but the judge i worked for last spring said that you'd better take Federal Courts if you want to clerk.

Which, as I understand, sucks, because you're graded against all of the aspiring clerks in the law school instead of the general student body.

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TTT-LS
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby TTT-LS » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:27 pm

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Last edited by TTT-LS on Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BradyToMoss
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby BradyToMoss » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I found the law and xxx classes really fun.
that said, I do have some real classes even as a 2L, like immigration law and family law.
I am also doing independent research on health law.

can't say these are something like law and racism.


Why is this anonymous? Are people that challenged they can't figure out how to use this button?

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TTT-LS
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby TTT-LS » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:07 pm

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Last edited by TTT-LS on Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chipmunk
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby chipmunk » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:12 pm

My school's clerkship advisor told all of the 2Ls on LR that course selection matters for clerkships. Judges want to know that you are a "serious student." He specifically mentioned Administrative Law, Con Law II, and Federal Courts.

For hiring partners, I'd imagine that course selection matters to the extent that it reflects your stated interests. If you say that you want to go into litigation, you'd better be taking evidence and trial advocacy.

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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:00 am

is doing an independent study program (writing a publishable research paper/ note for law review) in health law sufficient to show my strong interest in this area?This looks like a ridiculous question - but an independent study program is by no means a a structured course ... I am afraid that some hiring partners will not take it seriously.

my school canceled the health law seminar ... :roll:

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:40 am

Out of curiosity, TTT, for someone interested in clerking, is taking Federal Courts really important if you took (and murdered) Civ Pro II, which (at least for me) covered much of the difficult jurisdictional stuff?

I'm honestly more interested in district than appellate courts at this point, if that matters.

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Jones, Dow
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby Jones, Dow » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:29 am

TTT-LS wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
It may be a cliche, but the judge i worked for last spring said that you'd better take Federal Courts if you want to clerk.

Which, as I understand, sucks, because you're graded against all of the aspiring clerks in the law school instead of the general student body.

This is frequently the case, which is why I suggest taking it 3L year, after you've already got your clerkship. None of the judges I interviewed with remarked on the absence of Fed Courts on my transcript, though the one that hired me did say that I should probably take it at some point.


take the class that is supposed to help you get a clerkship after you have been offered a clerkship? I'm so confused...

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TTT-LS
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby TTT-LS » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:11 am

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Last edited by TTT-LS on Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BradyToMoss
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby BradyToMoss » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:50 am

If your school curves upper-level courses based on GPA of those taking the course graded, as they should, then it shouldn't matter who else is in your course.

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bwv812
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby bwv812 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:00 pm

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Last edited by bwv812 on Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:16 pm

on a side note, the GPA distributions of 2L and 3L have remained more or less the same at my school. don't know the reason. There are small bumps of like 0.05 or something.

thanks for all your comments, guys. I will try to strike a balance between the substantive classes (XXX law, corporation) and less substantive ones (human rights ...)

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TTT-LS
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby TTT-LS » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:23 pm

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Last edited by TTT-LS on Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:08 pm

BradyToMoss wrote:If your school curves upper-level courses based on GPA of those taking the course graded, as they should, then it shouldn't matter who else is in your course.


Add me to the list of people who has never heard of this being done.

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BradyToMoss
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby BradyToMoss » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:44 pm

TTT-LS wrote:
bwv812 wrote:
BradyToMoss wrote:If your school curves upper-level courses based on GPA of those taking the course graded, as they should, then it shouldn't matter who else is in your course.

What schools adjust their curve to fit the students in the course? I've never heard of this, and all the schools I've looked at have a standard curve that is applied to every class with more than ~25 students (though more liberties tend to be taken with the curve in upper-year courses).

I've never heard of that kind of curve adjustment either. At NU, the curve is the same for any curved class.


The curve for upper-level courses at our school is set based on the gpa of the students taking it as a graded option. Most are still curved to the median, but some classes will be on a slightly higher curve, and others slightly lower, based on the students who end up in the class. I'm surprised other schools don't do the same thing.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:04 pm

BradyToMoss wrote:
TTT-LS wrote:
bwv812 wrote:
BradyToMoss wrote:If your school curves upper-level courses based on GPA of those taking the course graded, as they should, then it shouldn't matter who else is in your course.

What schools adjust their curve to fit the students in the course? I've never heard of this, and all the schools I've looked at have a standard curve that is applied to every class with more than ~25 students (though more liberties tend to be taken with the curve in upper-year courses).

I've never heard of that kind of curve adjustment either. At NU, the curve is the same for any curved class.


The curve for upper-level courses at our school is set based on the gpa of the students taking it as a graded option. Most are still curved to the median, but some classes will be on a slightly higher curve, and others slightly lower, based on the students who end up in the class. I'm surprised other schools don't do the same thing.


Wouldn't that system effectively lock the top students from 1L in to the top of the class, presuming they took largely the same subjects?

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BradyToMoss
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby BradyToMoss » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:39 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
Wouldn't that system effectively lock the top students from 1L in to the top of the class, presuming they took largely the same subjects?


If the top 50 students conspired to take all the same classes together, yes it would. Surprisingly, almost every class is curved at the school's median. Very few are curved more than 1/10 of a grade point away from the median.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:26 am

BradyToMoss wrote:
TTT-LS wrote:
bwv812 wrote:
BradyToMoss wrote:If your school curves upper-level courses based on GPA of those taking the course graded, as they should, then it shouldn't matter who else is in your course.

What schools adjust their curve to fit the students in the course? I've never heard of this, and all the schools I've looked at have a standard curve that is applied to every class with more than ~25 students (though more liberties tend to be taken with the curve in upper-year courses).

I've never heard of that kind of curve adjustment either. At NU, the curve is the same for any curved class.


The curve for upper-level courses at our school is set based on the gpa of the students taking it as a graded option. Most are still curved to the median, but some classes will be on a slightly higher curve, and others slightly lower, based on the students who end up in the class. I'm surprised other schools don't do the same thing.


What school are you at?

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edcrane
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Re: grades and clerkships

Postby edcrane » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:11 am

Sounds like Penn to me.




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