Struck out at OCI, looking for career advice Forum

[bottom1/3atMVP]

Hello law school peeps!

I just received my last few ding letters today (not really unexpected, but still dissapointing), and I'm wondering what I should do. I've sent resumes to firms in my home city before coming back to school, but I came up empty. Probably will continue to send out resumes, but I've been thinking lately about abandoning the legal field and becoming a cop. I worked at the prosecutor's office last summer and I got to know a few of the cops who really enjoyed their jobs. Does anyone know of someone who went to law school and then became a police officer? I'm in my mid-twenties so age shouldn't be an issue, but I was wondering if being a police officer would qualify for LRAP funding? People have suggested becoming an FBI or CIA agent, but I like the idea of how a cop is part of the community and interacts daily with locals. I do want to complete law school, since I 've already finished 3 semesters, but yeah, I don't really like law school. Any thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

Gabriel Union's character in the show LIFE is the only person I "know."

[ggocat]

LRAP funding = gotta check with your individual school.

Law school, especially 1L, can be pretty boring. But actual legal work can be interesting if you like to research and write. Did you do much legal work at the DAs office, or was it mostly observation?

I'd think there could be some legal (J.D. required) work you might enjoy. But in the end, do what you gotta do to be happy.

[OperaSoprano]

Are you paying for law school yourself? Honestly, considering the expense involved, and the time commitment, if you don't enjoy it, and think you don't want to practice, there is no shame in moving on to something else. Are you sure, though? Are there areas of the law (besides biglaw) that you find appealing? I find that if you want to be somewhere, just about any sacrifice is tolerable, but if it truly makes you miserable, I think you should listen to your gut. Talk to as many practicing lawyers as possible, and, of course, working cops. Talk it over with your family, and think about what you truly want. Ultimately, I don't think this decision should be all about money, though. It's your life, and you should spend it in a career that will make you happy.

(Disclaimer: I'm only a 1L, but I love this experience, and wouldn't trade it for anything. I can't imagine what it would be like to go through this process, however, if I didn't really, really want to be here.)

[tetrahydrocannabinol]

Struck out at OCI, looking for career advice

I hear radiator coolant tastes like Kool-aid. You should immediately try it out and have someone else report back to us.

[Anonymous User]

I heard of someone who worked as a job during the day and did side jobs as an attorney. If that's what you are really interested in, why not try it out. Depending on where you work the money is decent and i'm pretty sure the benefits/pensions are really good.

[casper13]

I think the thing that may determine this a good idea is what is the starting salary for the PD you want to go work for. Most PD's offer extra per month for advanced degrees and if you are at a big PD then you will be able to make an easy 100K with OT. When I was in the process to become a probation officer there was a girl at the background investigation when I was there that had a JD but couldnt pass the bar exam so she was seeking alternatives. If you do decide to become a cop im sure youll make a great witness on the stand in court for the DA and may even piss off a PD or two

[SteelReserve]

Does anyone know of someone who went to law school and then became a police officer?

Well, this is just anecdotal because I read this from a poster on another law blog. In short, he was first a police officer and later became a government attorney.

He mentioned the pros and cons of each, but said he truly enjoyed being a government attorney more than being a cop.

The reason that stuck out the most was this: Because he was an intellectual person, smart enough to do well in law school, he never felt he fit in with the cop crowd. He just did not enjoy time with his co-workers, the type of discussions that went on, etc.

Just something to think about for your situation.

[bottom1/3atMVP]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I don't think I'll make any rash decisions at this point since this idea might be a product of striking out at oci, but I'm definitely intersted. Anyone know any cops in the NYPD or know what the culture is like? They seem to be recruiting heavily. My sister lives in New York and said that from what she's seen the police force there is pretty diverse in terms of women and minorities.

[casper13]

Youre a female? If so then you will have no problem getting into any PD at all. The thing you want to do though is if you go to a PD then go to one that will pay for your academy and is either a large PD or that you can lateral from to a large PD. Large PD's are the best for advancement versus the smaller ones that may pay good at first but cap off quickly.

[HokkaidoGyuNyu]

Hello law school peeps!

I just received my last few ding letters today (not really unexpected, but still dissapointing), and I'm wondering what I should do. I've sent resumes to firms in my home city before coming back to school, but I came up empty. Probably will continue to send out resumes, but I've been thinking lately about abandoning the legal field and becoming a cop. I worked at the prosecutor's office last summer and I got to know a few of the cops who really enjoyed their jobs. Does anyone know of someone who went to law school and then became a police officer? I'm in my mid-twenties so age shouldn't be an issue, but I was wondering if being a police officer would qualify for LRAP funding? People have suggested becoming an FBI or CIA agent, but I like the idea of how a cop is part of the community and interacts daily with locals. I do want to complete law school, since I 've already finished 3 semesters, but yeah, I don't really like law school. Any thoughts?

does bottom third = the VERY bottom for you because you are kind of scaring me about going to law school if you are at a t10 and can't get a legal job (outside of being a cop)

[bottom1/3atMVP]

I have no idea if I'm at the very bottom, probably not. I think there will be legal jobs and other such options when i graduate, but personally I think I'd rather be a cop, especially if the pay is going to be similar.

does bottom third = the VERY bottom for you because you are kind of scaring me about going to law school if you are at a t10 and can't get a legal job (outside of being a cop)

[CE2JD]

Hello law school peeps!

I just received my last few ding letters today (not really unexpected, but still dissapointing), and I'm wondering what I should do. I've sent resumes to firms in my home city before coming back to school, but I came up empty. Probably will continue to send out resumes, but I've been thinking lately about abandoning the legal field and becoming a cop. I worked at the prosecutor's office last summer and I got to know a few of the cops who really enjoyed their jobs. Does anyone know of someone who went to law school and then became a police officer? I'm in my mid-twenties so age shouldn't be an issue, but I was wondering if being a police officer would qualify for LRAP funding? People have suggested becoming an FBI or CIA agent, but I like the idea of how a cop is part of the community and interacts daily with locals. I do want to complete law school, since I 've already finished 3 semesters, but yeah, I don't really like law school. Any thoughts?

does bottom third = the VERY bottom for you because you are kind of scaring me about going to law school if you are at a t10 and can't get a legal job (outside of being a cop)

t10 is not a golden ticket. I know countless people at my t10 school without offers from OCI this year. Even in good years, being a t10 was not a golden ticket.

What you ignorant 0Ls don't know yet (notice my sudden condescending tone now that I'm in my 2nd week of law school) is that EVERYONE at t10 schools is smart!!! Even if you work your hardest, you'll still have a lower GPA than a lot of people at a t10.

[Oblomov]

t10 is not a golden ticket. I know countless people at my t10 school without offers from OCI this year. Even in good years, being a t10 was not a golden ticket.

"I did everything I could; I ate the butter, I drank the cream. And then I had this damned coronary."

[rondemarino]

Is it possible that ITE firms are finding it harder to justify a trip to Ann Arbor? I'm not saying Michigan is the only school with students hurting, but maybe they are hurting disproportionately?

[casper13]

Is it possible that ITE firms are finding it harder to justify a trip to Ann Arbor? I'm not saying Michigan is the only school with students hurting, but maybe they are hurting disproportionately?

That would be hilarious.

Firm: We cant go to Ann Arbor this year for OCI because we have to pay to much in per diem and hotel costs for the interviewers; therefore we will only conduct OCI in cities we have offices in.

[rayiner]

In past years, T14 wasn't a golden ticket, but you could reasonable expect to finish in the middle of the pack (somewhere in the middle third) and get a biglaw job. Sure, that means lots of people would potentially be left out, but let's face it, even at a T14, not everyone is exceptionally suited to law school exams. They may be smart, but law school is a very specific discipline.

In this economy, we're talking top 1/3 for biglaw outside CCN from what I'm hearing. That is the scary part because it means you can't just be an average student --- you need to be an exceptional student. And honestly, the "oh I'll just work hard" or "oh, my LSAT is above the median" stuff is not convincing. My LSAT is 6 points above the median and I'm quite used to working 60 hour weeks for months at a time, and I can tell you after just spending a couple of weeks with my classmates that there is no way in hell I'd make assumptions about being top 10% or whatever. The people here are sharp. One of the guys in my CLR section is a Harvard BME who founded a pharmaceuticals startup after school. Another is a Canadian lawyer whose been practicing for years and is now getting her JD so she can work in the US. Several went to Stanford, Harvard, etc. Plus, this is the first week of school, 1L classes are done for the day, and the library has lots of people in it.

[casper13]

In past years, T14 wasn't a golden ticket, but you could reasonable expect to finish in the middle of the pack (somewhere in the middle third) and get a biglaw job. Sure, that means lots of people would potentially be left out, but let's face it, even at a T14, not everyone is exceptionally suited to law school exams. They may be smart, but law school is a very specific discipline.

In this economy, we're talking top 1/3 for biglaw outside CCN from what I'm hearing. That is the scary part because it means you can't just be an average student --- you need to be an exceptional student. And honestly, the "oh I'll just work hard" or "oh, my LSAT is above the median" stuff is not convincing. My LSAT is 6 points above the median and I'm quite used to working 60 hour weeks for months at a time, and I can tell you after just spending a couple of weeks with my classmates that there is no way in hell I'd make assumptions about being top 10% or whatever. The people here are sharp. One of the guys in my CLR section is a Harvard BME who founded a pharmaceuticals startup after school. Another is a Canadian lawyer whose been practicing for years and is now getting her JD so she can work in the US. Several went to Stanford, Harvard, etc. Plus, this is the first week of school, 1L classes are done for the day, and the library has lots of people in it.

Also the top schools are a mix of the top students so you can only imagine that everyone is of top notch brillance in your class. Okay that didnt help. Uhm anyways im sure that hard work over the span of the semester is a lot better than taking a straight plunge now like most want to do because of the economy and the fear of not being top in the class. I think that a lot of those in the library are probably going to wither down or even burn out by the last quarter of the semester. Cant keep up high levels for a long time the brain and body dont act well. I use to work full time and go to school full time and use to just look at the people in my classes burn out who only went to school full time and stressed out early and overwhelmed themselves by halfway because they wanted to get that A and wanted to be top in the class, for no reason at all mind you. Then again what do I know im not in ls and this may all be useless and ill probably fail out for taking a buildup approach versus the start gunning from the start and spending 6-8 hours in library on top of class.

[bwv812]

.

[Anonymous User]

Is it possible that ITE firms are finding it harder to justify a trip to Ann Arbor? I'm not saying Michigan is the only school with students hurting, but maybe they are hurting disproportionately?

That would be hilarious.

Firm: We cant go to Ann Arbor this year for OCI because we have to pay to much in per diem and hotel costs for the interviewers; therefore we will only conduct OCI in cities we have offices in.

I'm pretty sure Michigan had a lot more offices at OCI than Boalt or whatever other dump is on its tier. It had about 400 offices this year. In comparison, Boalt had less than 200.

but yes, every school below HYS is screwed ITE. Seriously. I think less than 30% of the class of 2011 in the T14 will get a job out of OCI, probably less than 20%. CCN is also screwed...not sure what all the liberal arts majors are going to do. Maybe the JD will become as worthless as a PhD in English and will just be seen as a degree for prissy, rich kids who want "intellectual enrichment" but not an actual job. The sad part is this probably isn't a hyperbole.

[GeePee]

Is it possible that ITE firms are finding it harder to justify a trip to Ann Arbor? I'm not saying Michigan is the only school with students hurting, but maybe they are hurting disproportionately?

That would be hilarious.

Firm: We cant go to Ann Arbor this year for OCI because we have to pay to much in per diem and hotel costs for the interviewers; therefore we will only conduct OCI in cities we have offices in.

I'm pretty sure Michigan had a lot more offices at OCI than Boalt or whatever other dump is on its tier. It had about 400 offices this year. In comparison, Boalt had less than 200.

but yes, every school below HYS is screwed ITE. Seriously. I think less than 30% of the class of 2011 in the T14 will get a job out of OCI, probably less than 20%. CCN is also screwed...not sure what all the liberal arts majors are going to do. Maybe the JD will become as worthless as a PhD in English and will just be seen as a degree for prissy, rich kids who want "intellectual enrichment" but not an actual job.

If you're going to anonymous flame, at least do it discretely... The ITE problems are obviously existent but "probably less than 20%" is highly pessimistic. Top half at CCN, top 3rd at lower t14 all seem to be doing reasonably well from things I've heard so far so I'd say in the range of 35% are getting jobs out of OCI. All in all, that is not terrible considering the hype. It's a scary time but I'm expecting some positive reforms to the legal job market in the next few years.

[Formerbruin]

I don't know where you're getting your information, but this isn't true. Compare like things, please. You're taking the number of employers at Boalt and comparing it with the number of offices at Michigan.

Is it possible that ITE firms are finding it harder to justify a trip to Ann Arbor? I'm not saying Michigan is the only school with students hurting, but maybe they are hurting disproportionately?

That would be hilarious.

Firm: We cant go to Ann Arbor this year for OCI because we have to pay to much in per diem and hotel costs for the interviewers; therefore we will only conduct OCI in cities we have offices in.

I'm pretty sure Michigan had a lot more offices at OCI than Boalt or whatever other dump is on its tier. It had about 400 offices this year. In comparison, Boalt had less than 200.

but yes, every school below HYS is screwed ITE. Seriously. I think less than 30% of the class of 2011 in the T14 will get a job out of OCI, probably less than 20%. CCN is also screwed...not sure what all the liberal arts majors are going to do. Maybe the JD will become as worthless as a PhD in English and will just be seen as a degree for prissy, rich kids who want "intellectual enrichment" but not an actual job. The sad part is this probably isn't a hyperbole.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know where you're getting your information, but this isn't true. Compare like things, please. You're taking the number of employers at Boalt and comparing it with the number of offices at Michigan.

Is it possible that ITE firms are finding it harder to justify a trip to Ann Arbor? I'm not saying Michigan is the only school with students hurting, but maybe they are hurting disproportionately?

That would be hilarious.

Firm: We cant go to Ann Arbor this year for OCI because we have to pay to much in per diem and hotel costs for the interviewers; therefore we will only conduct OCI in cities we have offices in.

I'm pretty sure Michigan had a lot more offices at OCI than Boalt or whatever other dump is on its tier. It had about 400 offices this year. In comparison, Boalt had less than 200.

but yes, every school below HYS is screwed ITE. Seriously. I think less than 30% of the class of 2011 in the T14 will get a job out of OCI, probably less than 20%. CCN is also screwed...not sure what all the liberal arts majors are going to do. Maybe the JD will become as worthless as a PhD in English and will just be seen as a degree for prissy, rich kids who want "intellectual enrichment" but not an actual job. The sad part is this probably isn't a hyperbole.

No I'm not actually. If I'm wrong, would you like to post the accurate number of offices at Boalt this year? (And yes Boalties are also screwed.)

[Anonymous User]

Is it possible that ITE firms are finding it harder to justify a trip to Ann Arbor? I'm not saying Michigan is the only school with students hurting, but maybe they are hurting disproportionately?

That would be hilarious.

Firm: We cant go to Ann Arbor this year for OCI because we have to pay to much in per diem and hotel costs for the interviewers; therefore we will only conduct OCI in cities we have offices in.

I'm pretty sure Michigan had a lot more offices at OCI than Boalt or whatever other dump is on its tier. It had about 400 offices this year. In comparison, Boalt had less than 200.

but yes, every school below HYS is screwed ITE. Seriously. I think less than 30% of the class of 2011 in the T14 will get a job out of OCI, probably less than 20%. CCN is also screwed...not sure what all the liberal arts majors are going to do. Maybe the JD will become as worthless as a PhD in English and will just be seen as a degree for prissy, rich kids who want "intellectual enrichment" but not an actual job.

If you're going to anonymous flame, at least do it discretely... The ITE problems are obviously existent but "probably less than 20%" is highly pessimistic. Top half at CCN, top 3rd at lower t14 all seem to be doing reasonably well from things I've heard so far so I'd say in the range of 35% are getting jobs out of OCI. All in all, that is not terrible considering the hype. It's a scary time but I'm expecting some positive reforms to the legal job market in the next few years.

Hope and expectations...I'm sure 2Ls had hope and expectations before getting slaughtered at OCI this year. The sad part is most have insane debt and worthless undergrad degrees so they can't fall back on anything. You are a 0L with a 4.0 in Econ and Math? Take your degrees elsewhere. Become a CPA and actually get a job. Unless are bilingual and can work abroad with your JD, become a CPA, or actuary, go into a profession that isn't doomed for years to come.

Your analysis forgets the fact that callbacks do not necessarily result in offers. Think about this: top 1/3 of lower T-14 are getting a couple callbacks and top 1/2 (although I doubt this is true) out of CCN are getting a couple + offer ratio is much lower than it was last year = less than 35% getting jobs out of OCI, meaning screwed.