Why government?

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Anonymous User
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Why government?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:00 pm

I've been looking at government jobs via honors program and the summer legal internships and I noticed how ridiculously competitive most of these jobs are (e.g. taking 13 people out of 5000 applicants). I also noticed the payscale for most of them was somewhere around GS9-GS11. Here's a salary table I found online:
http://www.opm.gov/oca/09tables/html/dcb.asp

So most of these jobs apparently start between $50K and $61K. I don't get it, why is it so competitive to work for such shitty pay? I can understand it for cool gigs like the FBI or DoJ, but why is it so competitive for lame ass government jobs like the EPA (which also pay shitty)?

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ggocat
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Re: Why government?

Postby ggocat » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:21 pm

Generally: somewhat better hours, better training/mentoring, more substantive work at early stages of career, more opportunities to feel invested in a "cause" (internal satisfaction), and job security.

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napolnic
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Re: Why government?

Postby napolnic » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:22 pm

Also untaxed benefits and possible participation in LRAP programs

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Why government?

Postby puppleberry finn » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:24 pm

Some people would actually rather work at the EPA than the FBI.

Anonymous User
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Re: Why government?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:27 pm

ggocat wrote:Generally: somewhat better hours, better training/mentoring, more substantive work at early
stages of career, more opportunities to feel invested in a "cause" (internal satisfaction), and job security.


What kind of hours does someone working in government put in?

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Why government?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:29 pm

puppins wrote:Some people would actually rather work at the EPA than the FBI.


Please tell me their names so I can murder them immediately. lol.

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Why government?

Postby puppleberry finn » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
puppins wrote:Some people would actually rather work at the EPA than the FBI.


Please tell me their names so I can murder them immediately. lol.

What an incredibly weird response to that.

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neskerdoo
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Re: Why government?

Postby neskerdoo » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:40 pm

puppins wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
puppins wrote:Some people would actually rather work at the EPA than the FBI.


Please tell me their names so I can murder them immediately. lol.

What an incredibly weird response to that.



luckily, it was anonymous

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Why government?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:43 pm

puppins wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
puppins wrote:Some people would actually rather work at the EPA than the FBI.


Please tell me their names so I can murder them immediately. lol.

What an incredibly weird response to that.


Haha. I guess you can probably tell I don't like the EPA much.

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ggocat
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Re: Why government?

Postby ggocat » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ggocat wrote:Generally: somewhat better hours, better training/mentoring, more substantive work at early
stages of career, more opportunities to feel invested in a "cause" (internal satisfaction), and job security.


What kind of hours does someone working in government put in?

It depends. Generally gubbies will always have work on their desk, but projects are results-based. That is, the number of hours you work on something doesn't often matter so long as you produce results. Because there is no billable hour, you aren't under constant pressure to put in face time at the office (unless you have some psycho boss).

But you will find some government attorneys that put in biglaw hours (according to what a county prosecutor has told me). I've worked in several federal offices, and I haven't seen biglaw hours unless trial was imminent.

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Why government?

Postby puppleberry finn » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
puppins wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
puppins wrote:Some people would actually rather work at the EPA than the FBI.


Please tell me their names so I can murder them immediately. lol.

What an incredibly weird response to that.


Haha. I guess you can probably tell I don't like the EPA much.

So you want to hunt down and kill their employees? That's fucked up.

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ggocat
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Re: Why government?

Postby ggocat » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:07 pm

neskerdoo wrote:
puppins wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
puppins wrote:Some people would actually rather work at the EPA than the FBI.


Please tell me their names so I can murder them immediately. lol.

What an incredibly weird response to that.



luckily, it was anonymous

"Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
. . . Unacceptable uses include: . . . joking around . . . .
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned."

<--- wondering if a moderator will enforce forum rules.

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underdawg
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Re: Why government?

Postby underdawg » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:46 pm

i think being a huge weenie should get you banned too

Anonymous User
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Re: Why government?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:06 pm

ggocat wrote:"Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
. . . Unacceptable uses include: . . . joking around . . . .
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned."

<--- wondering if a moderator will enforce forum rules.


Essentially the whole point of anonymous posting is so we can talk shit about firms/employers without worrying about it ("revealing sensitive ... information"). The anonymity doesn't really work out well if you can post anonymously on your first post, and then when you reply to another post, which isn't necessarily bashing an employer, but would clearly reveal you as the OP doesn't work to well. I posted this anonymously because I am in fact interested in the FBI and DoJ (as I stated in my original post).

EDIT- Personally I think the rules are too narrow and not enforced as they read anyway. Technically nothing in the "OCI callbacks thread" is revealing sensitive employer specific information (but obviously most people would not post up what they are if it wasn't for the anonymous posting).

Thanks for the replies for those of you that posted something substantive. I think I will probably only be pursuing the 2 or 3 areas of government that actually interest me since the other stuff isn't really worth that huge of a pay cut.

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ggocat
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Re: Why government?

Postby ggocat » Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the replies for those of you that posted something substantive.

You're welcome.

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Corsair
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Re: Why government?

Postby Corsair » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:33 am

..

Anonymous User
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Re: Why government?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:46 pm

Corsair wrote:Note most government attorney jobs start at GS-11. Many start at a higher step, like the IRS at GS-11 Step 8. Others start even higher, and places like the SEC have their own separate pay scale. If you start at the DOJ after a clerkship or LLM, you get GS-12. If you start at 11, you can hit 12 in 6 months, and 13 a year after that.


How do you know what step a specific job starts at (the Arizona handbook only seems to have the scale you start at)? Is it on the actual website of the agency?

fiftyonefifty
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Re: Why government?

Postby fiftyonefifty » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Corsair wrote:Note most government attorney jobs start at GS-11. Many start at a higher step, like the IRS at GS-11 Step 8. Others start even higher, and places like the SEC have their own separate pay scale. If you start at the DOJ after a clerkship or LLM, you get GS-12. If you start at 11, you can hit 12 in 6 months, and 13 a year after that.


How do you know what step a specific job starts at (the Arizona handbook only seems to have the scale you start at)? Is it on the actual website of the agency?


Anything over a Step 1 requires written justification as to why you are recruiting at that Step.

So, basically it is up to the agency to determine the Step. Usually when government agencies offer jobs, they almost always offer it at the Step 1. You have to verbally accept their offer and if you think you should get paid more because you are currently making more money in your current job or if you were paid more in a past job, then you'll have to decline the offer and negotiate the pay. Keep in mind that you'll need to have something to negotiate with, otherwise you'll have no choice but to take the Step 1.
Last edited by fiftyonefifty on Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Corsair
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Re: Why government?

Postby Corsair » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:48 pm

..




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