Just how bad is the legal job market really?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273142
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Just how bad is the legal job market really?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:04 am

FrankReynolds wrote:
I'm bottom half at CCN, and OCI has been absolute carnage so far for me.


I'm also bottom half at CCN, and I have an offer at a V50...but yea, still hard to tell how bad it will be, since a lot of students have 1-3 callbacks. If the callback/offer rate isn't high, it could be pretty bad. Personally, I think CCN will end up okay, but a huge chunk of everyone below N is gonna be doing some soul-searching.


Congrats man. Are you just below median or significantly below median?

User avatar
observationalist
Posts: 472
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:55 pm

Re: Just how bad is the legal job market really?

Postby observationalist » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:13 am

As someone who spent a little time in biglaw this summer and was then no-offered along with perhaps half my summer class, I want to be able to agree with what you're saying about this being a good thing for all those involved. For me, this makes it easier to do what I want (though in a less lucrative fashion). But I'm worried about the many no-offered or shut-out 3L/2L friends here or from my summer firm who don't know what else they want to do now and are going to flounder through the next few years wasting their talent, which arguably hurts society in the aggregate (unless you feel that biglaw is actually malicious for some reason, in which case I guess having fewer talented lawyers start off in that direction could be a benefit in itself even if they do nothing else. But I don't personally hold to this view, since biglaw is just really successful private practice, and the vast majority of the legal profession engages in private practice).

I'm more concerned that there's no out for people who took on loans after they calculated (hopefully correctly, though that depends on how much accurate information schools gave them) for a certain level of risk and then saw that risk increase substantially. There's always been a legitimate need for some law graduates to declare bankruptcy and discharge their student loans, but the argument for once again permitting it has to be a lot stronger right now. People file for bankruptcy when their debt becomes uncontrollable and they don't have any other options, and I have to believe that some of my classmates and those at other schools are taking these no-offers or rejections personally and may very well be in need of some legitimate debt forgiveness given their unemployability. What we're pushing for at Vandy is private loan repayment assistance for a guaranteed 2 to maybe 4 years while people develop low-paying legal experience, but that relies on wealthy alumni to establish the funds, and there are fewer of those than there used to be as well. I guess we'll know more about whether this is possible in a few months.

And sorry both for quoting at the bottom and the delayed bump. Typing from my phone. Gluck to those who are OCIng.

rayiner wrote:The frou frou "law school should be so much more" people really piss me off. You think learning to be overhead is really such a fucking huge intellectual calling? Fact is that people go to law school, at least the top schools to make $$$. That's why even PI friendly NYU sends most people to biglaw. And now most of those people are fucked. Probably a good thing for society actually...

Oblomov
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:16 am

Re: Just how bad is the legal job market really?

Postby Oblomov » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:04 pm

observationalist wrote:A But I'm worried about the many no-offered or shut-out 3L/2L friends here or from my summer firm who don't know what else they want to do now and are going to flounder through the next few years wasting their talent, which arguably hurts society in the aggregate.



Let's not forget the trickle-down effect that this will have on therapists, hookers, and coke dealers.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Just how bad is the legal job market really?

Postby rayiner » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:32 pm

observationalist wrote:As someone who spent a little time in biglaw this summer and was then no-offered along with perhaps half my summer class, I want to be able to agree with what you're saying about this being a good thing for all those involved. For me, this makes it easier to do what I want (though in a less lucrative fashion). But I'm worried about the many no-offered or shut-out 3L/2L friends here or from my summer firm who don't know what else they want to do now and are going to flounder through the next few years wasting their talent, which arguably hurts society in the aggregate (unless you feel that biglaw is actually malicious for some reason, in which case I guess having fewer talented lawyers start off in that direction could be a benefit in itself even if they do nothing else. But I don't personally hold to this view, since biglaw is just really successful private practice, and the vast majority of the legal profession engages in private practice).

I'm more concerned that there's no out for people who took on loans after they calculated (hopefully correctly, though that depends on how much accurate information schools gave them) for a certain level of risk and then saw that risk increase substantially. There's always been a legitimate need for some law graduates to declare bankruptcy and discharge their student loans, but the argument for once again permitting it has to be a lot stronger right now. People file for bankruptcy when their debt becomes uncontrollable and they don't have any other options, and I have to believe that some of my classmates and those at other schools are taking these no-offers or rejections personally and may very well be in need of some legitimate debt forgiveness given their unemployability. What we're pushing for at Vandy is private loan repayment assistance for a guaranteed 2 to maybe 4 years while people develop low-paying legal experience, but that relies on wealthy alumni to establish the funds, and there are fewer of those than there used to be as well. I guess we'll know more about whether this is possible in a few months.

And sorry both for quoting at the bottom and the delayed bump. Typing from my phone. Gluck to those who are OCIng.

rayiner wrote:The frou frou "law school should be so much more" people really piss me off. You think learning to be overhead is really such a fucking huge intellectual calling? Fact is that people go to law school, at least the top schools to make $$$. That's why even PI friendly NYU sends most people to biglaw. And now most of those people are fucked. Probably a good thing for society actually...


Heh. I was drunk when I wrote that original statement, so it was more insensitive than I would've liked, but I stand behind the underlying points. If the recession leads to a trimming of biglaw, with businesses trying to streamline their legal departments and cutting down on litigation, etc, that's probably a good thing for society as a whole. Corporate legal services are overhead in the economy, and trimming overhead makes things more efficient. It sucks for the people who want to be that overhead, but thems the breaks. I feel bad for people who ended up taking different risks than they thought they were taking, but what is there really to do? I think leaning on the school is absolutely the right action. They took your tuition money, and as such became invested in your outcome.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.