1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

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kurla88
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1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby kurla88 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:27 pm

Incoming 1L here... from my (limited) understanding, you're supposed to apply for your 1L summer jobs by... December 1st? With no law school grades? I for one am straight out of undergrad and have limited work experience. What happens if you apply as soon as you get your fall grades? Can someone explain how all this works exactly?

Alexandria
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby Alexandria » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:31 pm

That's the starting date for applying, not the deadline. I believe it's a NALP guideline, that firms aren't supposed to accept your resume, etc. before then.

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kurla88
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby kurla88 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:37 pm

Alexandria wrote:That's the starting date for applying, not the deadline. I believe it's a NALP guideline, that firms aren't supposed to accept your resume, etc. before then.


Oh. Well I feel silly then. But do most people apply right after these applications open, then? Or is it fine to wait till you have some grades?

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:40 pm

From what I understood the NALP has the Nov 1 start date, however most firms have filled their associate positions by December 1st. That's when they take the remain spots (if any) and may call up other 2Ls or 1Ls to fill those spots, but you would want your resume in their files before that December 1st date.

Can anyone else confirm this?

Alexandria
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby Alexandria » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:15 pm

The Nov 1 deadline is when your school's Office of Career Services can start talking to you. There's supposedly some sort of agreement between law schools on this.

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:32 pm

Entirely irrelevent this year.

Unless you believe that firms are reducing 2L summer hiring 50-75% in order to pay the same amount of $ to 1L's.

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kurla88
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby kurla88 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:36 pm

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:Entirely irrelevent this year.

Unless you believe that firms are reducing 2L summer hiring 50-75% in order to pay the same amount of $ to 1L's.


So... these deadlines only apply to firm jobs? What about other jobs?

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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:42 pm

kurla88 wrote:
ScaredWorkedBored wrote:Entirely irrelevent this year.

Unless you believe that firms are reducing 2L summer hiring 50-75% in order to pay the same amount of $ to 1L's.


So... these deadlines only apply to firm jobs? What about other jobs?


I don't think there are any formal guidelines for non-firm jobs (besides the Nov. 1st start date). I wouldn't wait till break though.

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bwv812
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby bwv812 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:32 pm

.
Last edited by bwv812 on Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jaudette
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby jaudette » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:54 pm

bwv812 wrote:Why all the anon replies?

You can't talk to career services at your school until Nov. 1. You can't apply to NALP firms until Dec. 1. Be ready to spam them as soon as the first rolls around, however (so get working on your resume, cover letter, and mailing list now, as you don't want to be doing this in late November).

The above does not apply to non-NALP firms or other legal employers.


Because of all the different info presented here, do you have a source?

Alexandria
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby Alexandria » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:15 pm

jaudette wrote:
bwv812 wrote:Why all the anon replies?

You can't talk to career services at your school until Nov. 1. You can't apply to NALP firms until Dec. 1. Be ready to spam them as soon as the first rolls around, however (so get working on your resume, cover letter, and mailing list now, as you don't want to be doing this in late November).

The above does not apply to non-NALP firms or other legal employers.


Because of all the different info presented here, do you have a source?


BWV's info is common knowledge among law students. If you check with your OCS, they should say the same thing.

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jaudette
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby jaudette » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:25 pm

Alexandria wrote:
jaudette wrote:
bwv812 wrote:Why all the anon replies?

You can't talk to career services at your school until Nov. 1. You can't apply to NALP firms until Dec. 1. Be ready to spam them as soon as the first rolls around, however (so get working on your resume, cover letter, and mailing list now, as you don't want to be doing this in late November).

The above does not apply to non-NALP firms or other legal employers.


Because of all the different info presented here, do you have a source?


BWV's info is common knowledge among law students. If you check with your OCS, they should say the same thing.


Haha, I would if they let me in there before Nov 1! Its kind of a catch 22, the rules won't let go to the office I need the rules from.

mr.undroppable
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby mr.undroppable » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:39 pm

1) Unless you have amazing softs and connections you can stop worrying about nalp rules right now, and if you do have amazing softs and connections you would know that you don't need to worry about nalp rules anyway.

2) The office of career services is not 'off limits.' You can walk in anytime and ask them about setting up a meeting and they will tell you to wait until after Nov. 1st.

fwiw, getting you a job as a 1L is about the last thing someone working at career services is worried about right now. They are going to be pushing the panic button over 2L OCI and they have to help 3Ls get their shit together for clerkships. Helping a 1L put together a resume that will likely never be read by any employer anytime this year is not exactly a productive way for them to spend their time. Furthermore, they are not going to help you get a job anyway. They will point you in a direction to do research on firms and might help with your resume but that is about all they are going to do for you.

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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:55 pm

Amazing idea: Ask your goddamn Career Services Office these questions and they'll probably tell you the answer accurately and precisely.

Alexandria
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby Alexandria » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:12 pm

mr.undroppable wrote:
2) The office of career services is not 'off limits.' You can walk in anytime and ask them about setting up a meeting and they will tell you to wait until after Nov. 1st.


This.

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kurla88
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby kurla88 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Amazing idea: Ask your goddamn Career Services Office these questions and they'll probably tell you the answer accurately and precisely.


Amazing idea, stop being such a bitch and misusing the anonymous function.

So what we should do is walk into OCS to have our questions answered... and then be turned away? Does this November 1st rule apply to OCS in general, or just if you're looking for a firm job? Someone mentioned that even for non-firm jobs, you shouldn't be waiting till break to apply, so I again run into the same problem of not having that much on my resume... and needing some help from OCS.

:/

mr.undroppable
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby mr.undroppable » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:33 pm

kurla88 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Amazing idea: Ask your goddamn Career Services Office these questions and they'll probably tell you the answer accurately and precisely.


Amazing idea, stop being such a bitch and misusing the anonymous function.

So what we should do is walk into OCS to have our questions answered... and then be turned away? Does this November 1st rule apply to OCS in general, or just if you're looking for a firm job? Someone mentioned that even for non-firm jobs, you shouldn't be waiting till break to apply, so I again run into the same problem of not having that much on my resume... and needing some help from OCS.

:/


You seriously need to relax. OCS is not handicapping you, the rules are perfectly evenhanded for everyone. What are you even expecting OCS to do for you? They are just going to tell you to check out Chambers & Partners/Martindale and to read the resume writing guide they have on their website (every OCS will have this). They are not magic workers and they will not help you get a job. They pretty much just point you to websites or check your resume for grammar.

I think you misunderstand their role and how busy they are with 2L/3Ls this time of year. Your resume problems literally could not be a lower priority in the scheme of an OCS worker's responsibilities. Maybe try writing your resume by yourself by following the hundreds of 'how to write a resume' guides found online, they will probably have better advice than your OCS anyway.

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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby worldtraveler » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:42 pm

mr.undroppable wrote:
kurla88 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Amazing idea: Ask your goddamn Career Services Office these questions and they'll probably tell you the answer accurately and precisely.


Amazing idea, stop being such a bitch and misusing the anonymous function.

So what we should do is walk into OCS to have our questions answered... and then be turned away? Does this November 1st rule apply to OCS in general, or just if you're looking for a firm job? Someone mentioned that even for non-firm jobs, you shouldn't be waiting till break to apply, so I again run into the same problem of not having that much on my resume... and needing some help from OCS.

:/


You seriously need to relax. OCS is not handicapping you, the rules are perfectly evenhanded for everyone. What are you even expecting OCS to do for you? They are just going to tell you to check out Chambers & Partners/Martindale and to read the resume writing guide they have on their website (every OCS will have this). They are not magic workers and they will not help you get a job. They pretty much just point you to websites or check your resume for grammar.

I think you misunderstand their role and how busy they are with 2L/3Ls this time of year. Your resume problems literally could not be a lower priority in the scheme of an OCS worker's responsibilities. Maybe try writing your resume by yourself by following the hundreds of 'how to write a resume' guides found online, they will probably have better advice than your OCS anyway.


Calm down. She's just asking a question.

Kurla, at least the way it works at my school is that as 1Ls we can go to any information sessions or things like that sponsored by the CSO. Individual appointments, resume reviews, and things like that wait until after Nov. 1.

hbb
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby hbb » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:53 am

jaudette wrote:
bwv812 wrote:Why all the anon replies?

You can't talk to career services at your school until Nov. 1. You can't apply to NALP firms until Dec. 1. Be ready to spam them as soon as the first rolls around, however (so get working on your resume, cover letter, and mailing list now, as you don't want to be doing this in late November).

The above does not apply to non-NALP firms or other legal employers.


Because of all the different info presented here, do you have a source?


This isn't exactly "different info," rather, what is being presented are the established guidelines of the National Association of Legal Career Professionals.
D. Summer Employment Provisions for First Year Students

1. Law schools should not offer career services to first-semester first year law students prior to November 1 except in the case of part-time students who may be given assistance in seeking positions during the school term.

2. Prospective employers and first year law students should not initiate contact with one another and employers should not interview or make offers to first year students before December 1.

3. All offers to first year students for summer employment should remain open for at least two weeks after the date made.



edit: fixed up lost formatting from the cut and paste. Scroll to the very bottom of the linked page for the relevant section.

http://www.nalp.org/fulltextofnalpprinc ... Principles (viewed Aug. 28 2009).

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kurla88
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby kurla88 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:11 am

Just to clarify, I don't think my needs should come before 2Ls and 3Ls, or that OCS is screwing me over.

People on TLS are very matter of fact about saying we need to be preparing mailing lists NOW and we'll regret it if we don't have all our job requests out before Christmas break (and grades)... And I don't really know where to start or who I should be mailing. My resume itself is fine, but I can't add five years of experience where there are none.

Anyway, I'm sure my school will have info sessions for 1Ls, as worldtraveler mentioned, so I will attend those and try to figure things out. Panicking doesn't help. :P In the meantime, any more advice is appreciated.

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lilybbloom
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby lilybbloom » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:24 am

will grants for unpaid summer internships still be freely available from schools, or will those too become a casualty of the recession? in general, are those grants widely available for 1Ls, or are they hard to get?

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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:56 am

kurla88 wrote:Just to clarify, I don't think my needs should come before 2Ls and 3Ls, or that OCS is screwing me over.

People on TLS are very matter of fact about saying we need to be preparing mailing lists NOW and we'll regret it if we don't have all our job requests out before Christmas break (and grades)... And I don't really know where to start or who I should be mailing. My resume itself is fine, but I can't add five years of experience where there are none.

Anyway, I'm sure my school will have info sessions for 1Ls, as worldtraveler mentioned, so I will attend those and try to figure things out. Panicking doesn't help. :P In the meantime, any more advice is appreciated.


Putting in applications to firms for 1L employment this year is going to be a waste of postage, just FYI. 2Ls above median at the T14 are coming away empty-handed from OCI. You would do much better to focus on judicial internships/other externships/things you won't be paid to do.

Actually, you would probably be better off rethinking law school, unless you are going to HYS or some other T14 with a significant scholarship. Biglaw is never going to recover to the level it was at before--it was always unsustainable, it just took a shock to prove it--and it is going to take years for the rest of the legal system to deal with the current backlog of laid off associates/the classes of 2010/2011, etc.

mr.undroppable
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby mr.undroppable » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:45 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Actually, you would probably be better off rethinking law school, unless you are going to HYS or some other T14 with a significant scholarship. Biglaw is never going to recover to the level it was at before--it was always unsustainable, it just took a shock to prove it--and it is going to take years for the rest of the legal system to deal with the current backlog of laid off associates/the classes of 2010/2011, etc.


This.

But if you go to law school anyway your best bet is to just network the crap out of every opportunity you get. Email alumni in your area of interest and ask to meet with them to get advice (do not mention jobs). Ask professors questions about your area of interest and try to get close with one who might be able to recommend you to a judge. Dig deep with family friends, friends of friends, parents of friends of friends, and try to get as many contacts as possible. Do not worry about finding a job, worry about meeting people and a job will come to you.

Sending in a resume without someone at the firm already looking for you will be a waste of time this year.

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tetrahydrocannabinol
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby tetrahydrocannabinol » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:34 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
kurla88 wrote:Just to clarify, I don't think my needs should come before 2Ls and 3Ls, or that OCS is screwing me over.

People on TLS are very matter of fact about saying we need to be preparing mailing lists NOW and we'll regret it if we don't have all our job requests out before Christmas break (and grades)... And I don't really know where to start or who I should be mailing. My resume itself is fine, but I can't add five years of experience where there are none.

Anyway, I'm sure my school will have info sessions for 1Ls, as worldtraveler mentioned, so I will attend those and try to figure things out. Panicking doesn't help. :P In the meantime, any more advice is appreciated.


Putting in applications to firms for 1L employment this year is going to be a waste of postage, just FYI. 2Ls above median at the T14 are coming away empty-handed from OCI. You would do much better to focus on judicial internships/other externships/things you won't be paid to do.

Actually, you would probably be better off rethinking law school, unless you are going to HYS or some other T14 with a significant scholarship. Biglaw is never going to recover to the level it was at before--it was always unsustainable, it just took a shock to prove it--and it is going to take years for the rest of the legal system to deal with the current backlog of laid off associates/the classes of 2010/2011, etc.


Does the bolded statement not apply to you? I read some of your posts before finally joining this forum, and from what I gathered you are a Chicago transfer student... So you are paying close to $70K a year to attend at a non-HYS school?

I think it wouldn't be unfair to push this a little more and say not to go to law school without a substantial scholarship at a t14 (even HYS are hurting a lot this year).

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L summer jobs - what is this December 1st deadline?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:55 pm

tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:
kurla88 wrote:People on TLS are very matter of fact about saying we need to be preparing mailing lists NOW and we'll regret it if we don't have all our job requests out before Christmas break (and grades)... And I don't really know where to start or who I should be mailing. My resume itself is fine, but I can't add five years of experience where there are none.


Putting in applications to firms for 1L employment this year is going to be a waste of postage, just FYI. 2Ls above median at the T14 are coming away empty-handed from OCI. You would do much better to focus on judicial internships/other externships/things you won't be paid to do.

Actually, you would probably be better off rethinking law school, unless you are going to HYS or some other T14 with a significant scholarship. Biglaw is never going to recover to the level it was at before--it was always unsustainable, it just took a shock to prove it--and it is going to take years for the rest of the legal system to deal with the current backlog of laid off associates/the classes of 2010/2011, etc.


Does the bolded statement not apply to you? I read some of your posts before finally joining this forum, and from what I gathered you are a Chicago transfer student... So you are paying close to $70K a year to attend at a non-HYS school?

I think it wouldn't be unfair to push this a little more and say not to go to law school without a substantial scholarship at a t14 (even HYS are hurting a lot this year).


I'm pretty sure he regrets his choice of transferring, considering he stated in another thread that "transferring was the worst idea ever" and he only has 1 CB.




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